sj4iy Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Things that were not obvious at the time become clear in hindsight. When Ned was arrested and beheaded, Cersei was controlling news coming out of the capital, and neither Robb nor Jon had the full story. But after the twincest became common knowledge and rumors had a chance to percolate, it would be obvious why Ned tried to depose Joffrey and who Ned supported instead. Jon has been north of the wall, but Castle Black has been receiving letters the whole time. Jon actually has access to a very good information source in the person of Slynt, who probably hasn't entirely kept his mouth shut. I don't believe that Ned's name carries all that much weight with Stannis. Stannis isn't entirely thrilled with the Starks - he sentenced Robb to death with the blood leech, and Ned is bound up with unhappy memories of Robert in his mind. And Jon Snow can be taken as living proof that Ned wasn't entirely honorable. Anyway, Stannis is meritocratic. I think invoking Ned's name gets Stannis' attention, but Jon himself gets Stannis' respect. Actually, in the "Making of" video, the writers say that Stannis respected Ned and feels an obligation to him for what he did in informing Stannis of his claim to the throne. They said that's why Stannis listens to, and takes, Jon's advice on Mance and on burning the dead. Also, Stannis isn't the type of man who would hold a grudge against someone for something another family member did- like Robb and Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Underfoot Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I don't believe that Ned's name carries all that much weight with Stannis. Stannis isn't entirely thrilled with the Starks - he sentenced Robb to death with the blood leech, and Ned is bound up with unhappy memories of Robert in his mind. And Jon Snow can be taken as living proof that Ned wasn't entirely honorable. Anyway, Stannis is meritocratic. I think invoking Ned's name gets Stannis' attention, but Jon himself gets Stannis' respect. STannis seems to be most focused on how individuals act. He viewed Ned Stark as honorable because he supported his cause, Robb didn't so he was a traitor but he seems willing to listen to anyone who will support his claim. Stannis may not be my favorite character but he's pretty straight forward in how he treats people. They do what he thinks is right or they do what's wrong and he reacts accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nara Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I don't believe anyone has posted this link to a GRRM interview. Bold is the question. Unbold is GRRM's answer. Made me excited to know we'll learn more about Tywin/Shae relationship in the future. http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/16/game-of-thrones-finale-martin/ Right, and there’s also the surprise at Tywin’s hypocrisy when he finds her in his bed. Did Tywin know she was a prostitute [in the book version that's not clear]? Or did he just not care? Oh, I think Tywin knew about Shae. He probably figured out she was the same camp-follower that he expressly said “you will not bring that whore to court,” and that Tyrion defied him again and did bring that whore to court. As to precisely what happened here, that’s something I don’t really want to talk about because there’s still aspects of it I haven’t revealed that will be revealed in later books. But the role of Varys in all of this is also something to be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Things that were not obvious at the time become clear in hindsight. When Ned was arrested and beheaded, Cersei was controlling news coming out of the capital, and neither Robb nor Jon had the full story. But after the twincest became common knowledge and rumors had a chance to percolate, it would be obvious why Ned tried to depose Joffrey and who Ned supported instead. Jon has been north of the wall, but Castle Black has been receiving letters the whole time. Jon actually has access to a very good information source in the person of Slynt, who probably hasn't entirely kept his mouth shut. I don't believe that Ned's name carries all that much weight with Stannis. Stannis isn't entirely thrilled with the Starks - he sentenced Robb to death with the blood leech, and Ned is bound up with unhappy memories of Robert in his mind. And Jon Snow can be taken as living proof that Ned wasn't entirely honorable. Anyway, Stannis is meritocratic. I think invoking Ned's name gets Stannis' attention, but Jon himself gets Stannis' respect. I think its sort of a book/show change. We really do not hear show Stannis whining about Robert or about Ned being named Hand. Stannis also never got the letter from Ned in the books, Cersei intercepted it. So I think that the show version of Stannis does have a higher opinion of Ned, he does think that Robb was a traitor, we will have to wait and see but I don;t think that he will blame the other Starks and Jon knows the two other boys are alive, doesn't know where they are I think, but he knows they are alive. Not sure if Bran mentioned Rickons intentions to Sam. So it changes some dynamics, it gives Jon a clear out to being legitimized, I think he will share this knowledge with Stannis, he might have living brothers hiding somewhere in the North. Still I basicly concur that Jon parentage give him an in with Stannis but it won't nescassarily keep him in, unless he proves himself to have something more going for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newstar Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Ok the grabbing of the Valyrian Steel and holding on to it was just comical. His hands would have been ribbons. Fail on the importance and rarity of such steel. LOL, Cat grabbed a Valyrian steel dagger with her bare hands and held on in the books and in the show. It left her with scars, but her hands were not "ribbons." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I dunno. Cersei's line worked really well but i do see what you mean. The delivery was too smug so it came off as a little lulzy. So if Tyrion said to Tywin: "You do not, in fact, shit gold." it would have sounded ridiculous. Someone is gonna make a snarky comment about it in season 5, ive got money on it. It could be Bronn too. Oh dats wiggy! Also, Stannis' entry theme sounds just plain bamfy more than evil. The call back here was strong but fell a little short because context was odd. This was supposed to be a call back to Cat grabbing that Valyrian steel dagger during Bran's attack. Sandor doing the same thing is supposed to conjure up images of Cat protecting her child. which is really one huge reason i was outright expecting LSH to show up in the end of the episode. Sandor believes he is protecting Arya in a way, but also protecting himself. Sadly, the execution of this call back wasnt as well delivered as it should have been.Obviously the Hound grabbing the sword means that Victarion is cancelled. EVERYBODY OVERREACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I don't believe anyone has posted this link to a GRRM interview. Bold is the question. Unbold is GRRM's answer. Made me excited to know we'll learn more about Tywin/Shae relationship in the future. http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/16/game-of-thrones-finale-martin/ Right, and there’s also the surprise at Tywin’s hypocrisy when he finds her in his bed. Did Tywin know she was a prostitute [in the book version that's not clear]? Or did he just not care? Oh, I think Tywin knew about Shae. He probably figured out she was the same camp-follower that he expressly said “you will not bring that whore to court,” and that Tyrion defied him again and did bring that whore to court. As to precisely what happened here, that’s something I don’t really want to talk about because there’s still aspects of it I haven’t revealed that will be revealed in later books. But the role of Varys in all of this is also something to be considered. OooOooOo. Me rikey! Obviously the Hound grabbing the sword means that Victarion is cancelled. EVERYBODY OVERREACT my Hyperbole-o-meter kind of exploded, so im..confused on this being a joke or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrinceOfTheSummerIsles Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Bloodraven looks like Pycelle. Coincidence? I think not. Bloodraven is supposed to be older than Aemon!!! Shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 OooOooOo. Me rikey! my Hyperbole-o-meter kind of exploded, so im..confused on this being a joke or not. We'll have one year to ponder on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord D'oh Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I wouldn't be surprised if Lady Stoneheart doesn't show up until toward the end of next season, or even season six. Being so far removed from the Red Wedding, they need to build up the Freys once again as truly vile, which I predict may be done through Jaime's campaign in the Riverlands. Hopefully we'll get Jaime negotiating with Blackfish as well as the Freys holding Edmure hostage. (I didn't read all 88 pages of posts before writing this, so sincere apologies if this is a repeat.) Meanwhile, Brienne and Pod could continue their quest - though I'm not sure how - and end up meeting with Randall Tarly's army. He'd be a great character to introduce soon, as I'm anticipating his role growing in the books. Following that detour, Brienne could finally meet up with LS. Other plot lines I'm looking forward to: Stannis, Melisandre and Jon, as well as what Davos will be up to. Arya in Bravos, obviously. And I'm very curious about the Dorne storyline and the adaptations, as well as who will play Doran. Varys staying on the ship is a great narrative choice as he would've just been absent otherwise. (We never really know what he's up to for most of books 4 and 5, so it's a great adaptation choice to give him at least a few scenes with Tyrion and, presumably, Illyrio. The Spider was unfortunately mostly absent this year, and I'd like to see more of him and his own way of scheming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misnthropia Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Cat never even tried to negotiate with Stannis and his pointed remark to Cat makes me think that this option was not on the table with Stannis, his policy was 100% bend the knee or be destroyed. I think everyone had a fairly good understanding that Stannis was as Noye puts, pure iron, brittle and stubborn. Robb wanted independence from the South and had an army ready to fight for that cause. I think you are 100% correct. Had Robb and Cat gone to Stannis with the same offer they gave Renly, the reply wouldve been Usurper! Bend the knee. Robb could not have gone back to his men with that option. I don't believe that Ned's name carries all that much weight with Stannis. Stannis isn't entirely thrilled with the Starks - he sentenced Robb to death with the blood leech, and Ned is bound up with unhappy memories of Robert in his mind. And Jon Snow can be taken as living proof that Ned wasn't entirely honorable. Anyway, Stannis is meritocratic. I think invoking Ned's name gets Stannis' attention, but Jon himself gets Stannis' respect. I think Stannis is a person who can repsect someone without liking them. He might not have liked Ned, he was a closer brother to Robert and was more rewarded for the war effort than Stannis ever was. But he respected the hell out of him. As a combatant, a leader and a person. Robb, well, I dont think theres any particular hate for the Starks in general. Robb was an Ursurper, Stannis loved his brother (as much as Stannis can love someone anyway) but still sentenced him to death. --- I watched the episode again, I enjoyed it for what it was. I did have higher expectations and after reading the interviews with Alex and D&D I do have some eyebrow raising concerns. I loved everything at the Wall, my one nitpick is that I wouldve loved the Stannis part to go on longer. The battle was very short, but I guess it does instill a bit of Stannis just PWNED everything in his path. I loved the flank. Seeing that first wave of Cavalry roll in and then seeing a second. OMFG. Loved it. I didnt think they woud portray Stannis' army to be so large though, it looked pretty damn big, especially for what appeared to be all mounted soldiers. I was hoping wed see the discussion Mel, Stannis and Jon have together atop the wall, to really cliffhanger it. Maybe have Stannis pop the question and leave it on that. The escape was a bit meh. I have no idea what theyre doing with jamie and cersei. In the books they were drifting further apart, but they seem to be getting closer. Without Tyrion telling Jamie shes a whore, I wonder if theyll just have Jamie walking in on her blowing some knight or something. Tyrion crying after killing Shae, the Im sorry part. Ugh. Tywins death. It was on the toilet. Couldve gone for a shitting gold comment, but I think that will come next season when people find out hes dead. Hound v Brienne, good fight, but otherwise rubbish. I liked how it was a down and dirty brawl. This is where I raise an eyebrow. So a lot of people, I am one, believe that The Gravedigger theory is correct, Sandor lives but the Hound dies. Alex in his interview gave me the impression that he was busting this theory, he did use the name The Hound, rather than Sandor Clegane, but it really sounded as if he was putting a nail in that characters coffin. Arya was good, excited to see how that plays out. Good they remembered the words. But otherwise it wasnt a terribly hard scene to mess up. Dany, she is terrible. The bland look on her face as shes walking away from her Dragons. Rhaegal and Viserion carried this scene. Overall, good episode. I am disappointed, after so much buildup, we didnt get LSH. I mean the Cat Stark name drops were happening all season. Again, from the interview with Alex, I dont know if they ever plan on doing her. They made her siound like a generic zombie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here Shaggydog Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Stannis is just and fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Westeros-X Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Ok the grabbing of the Valyrian Steel and holding on to it was just comical. His hands would have been ribbons. Fail on the importance and rarity of such steel. Gotta suspend disbelief unfortunately.... but I thought the same thing as well. Sometimes movies/shows dont consider logic. Kinda like in the movie Eurotrip when the girl blocked the guy's email and he goes crazy and then flies from the US to Israel to find her... couldnt he just make another email address? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmholt Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 ''Coldhands was hacking and cutting at the circle of dead men that surroundered him'' I think he did a good job of a bodyguard, In the end yeah it's Leafs that saves them with fire...but from a torch not magical grenades.... Plus the look of the CotF is horrible.So far almost nobody has looked like I expected.That also includes things, like that horn on the Wall which looks like a refugee from props of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and is much too stationary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here Shaggydog Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 He's the Hound, he's tough like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Stonelea Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Lady Stoneheart....back from the dead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here Shaggydog Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Lady Stoneheart....back from the dead...We'll get her next season. What the hell else is going to happen with Brienne if not LS? Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here Shaggydog Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I laughed at the "I loved Shae" line. What a total fail on the writers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta_Greyjoy Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 We'll get her next season. What the hell else is going to happen with Brienne if not LS? Right? I think they're on the fence about LS and they keep putting it off and refusing to commit one way or the other. I agree that she'll probably show up next year because, and only because, they need to fill an episode or 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangeRoose Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Whenever they catch up to the books I'm not touching this show with a ten foot pole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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