[TRP Spoilers] Murder Mysteries in the Rogue Prince

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

The Murder Mysteries of Rogues..

What draws attention whilst reading The Rogue Prince is the deaths of both ser Laenor Velaryon, and those of ser Harwin and Lord Lyonel Strong.

Includes thoughts (as found in this post) by Lord Varys.

The Strongs:

Lyonel Strong, Lord of Harrenhal and Hand of the King, accompanied his son and heir Ser Harwin on his return to the great, half-ruined castle on the lakeshore. Shortly after their arrival, a fire broke out in the tower where they were sleeping, and both father and son were killed, along with three of their retainers and a dozen servants. The cause of the fire was never determined. Some put it down to simple mischance, whilst others muttered that Black Harren’s seat was cursed, and brought only doom to any man who held it. Many suspected the blaze was set intentionally.

So Lyonel Strong and his eldest son went to Harrenhal, and while they were there, a fire broke out and killed both of them (and some other people). Though there are people who believe it to have been an accident, there are also those who believe it to have been intentional. Maester Glydayn suggests several culprits:

• Mushroom suggests it was Corlys, out of revenge for Harwin having been Rhaenyra's rumoured lover (a rumour that seems likely to have been true), which caused Laenor to be cuckholded.
  
• Septon Eustace suggests it was Prince Daemon, since with Harwin out of the way, the way to Rhaenyra was free (due to Laenor having died shortly before)
  
• Others suggested Larys Strong, the younger brother, who, with his father and elder brother dead, would become Lord of Harrenhal
  
• Grand Maester Mellos suggested King Viserys I, to prevent Harwin from revealing the parentage of Rhaenyra's children, in the case that the rumours were true.
  

What draws notice is that each of these suspects are suspects in the minds of those in Westeros, based on the idea that it was Harwin who was supposed to die. That Harwin was the supposed target. And that Lyonel was at the wrong place at the wrong time, most likely.

Though it is very much possible that Harwin was the intended target, I would like to raise a possibility that Gyldayn did not consider (at least not in this version of the Rogue Prince, perhaps due to editing? Perhaps because he never considered it at all).

What if not Harwin, but Lord Lyonel was the intended target?

That would mean that the suspects Gyldayn has listed might be missing a few..

Looking at the list above (Corlys, Daemon, Larys, Viserys), there was only one person who would benefit from the death of both Harwin and Lyonel: Larys.

Corlys had nothing to gain from killing Lyonel, and no hatred between the two is known. The same goes for Daemon. Viserys seems even less unlikely. Whoever set the fire, he/they would have been told their target, and Viserys would have known from the start that Lyonel was traveling to Harrenhal. A message is quickly sent, and a plan can be slightly adjusted, so Viserys would not loose his hand. No such adjustments were made, and Lyonel died, leaving Viserys without a Hand. That was extremely unfortunate for Viserys, making Viserys the least likely of them all.

If Lyonel was the intended target, then the game changes. Lyonel was Hand of the King, and who might have wanted to take that place? In my opinion, the Greens become suspects for this.

Otto Hightower became the replacement of Lyonel, and thus regained power again. Alicent was Viserys' wife, and thus might have been able to influence Viserys' decision. Both Rhaenyra and Daemon were considered by Viserys, though not for long. And why were they not chosen? Rhaenyra was not chosen because it would require her to move to King's Landing, and have her family live closely by Alicent and her children. So Alicent's presence here was the reason that Rhaenyra did not get the job. Daemon was not chosen either, until Viserys "recalled Prince Daemon’s previous stints on the small council". And who had made certain that Daemon lost his seat at the Small Council previously? That was Ser Otto:

It was Ser Otto who had convinced Viserys to remove Prince Daemon as master of coin, and then as master of laws

Though the grandmaester suggested other men (whose name we don't learn), Viserys chose Otto, and the greens regained power, power they would later use to make Aegon II king.

So my point to this, in conclusion:

• It seems possible that Lyonel, and not Harwin, was the target for the fire, and the one who had to die
  
• That raises the possibility that the greens were behind the fire. Could there be other suspects in this scenario, besides the greens? Were there others who could profit from Lyonel's death?
  

Did history miss something here? Were the Littlefingers and Varys's of that time at work here, and did the maesters thus not catch a deeper layer of secrecy here?

There are two possible scenario's for the fire at Harrenhal, one that Glydayn did not consider. Can we make the list of suspects even bigger? Or can we perhaps eliminate some?

Laenor Velaryon

Though the death of Laena Velaryon was a natural one (child birth), her death might have set things in motion that, not only caused the deaths of her brother Laenor, but also those of the Strongs mentioned above.

Laenor's death could be seen as a chance for Alicent to try and convince Viserys to marry Rhaenyra to Aegon the Elder, an attempt Alicent had made before. This would make Aegon Rhaenyra´s king, and the coup for Aegon would have been much easier, or even unnecessary. They could have waited until Rhaenyra had a son by Aegon - after which Rhaenyra and her three eldest sons, by Laenor/Harwin, would no longer be necessary.

There might be evidence for this plan. Aegon the Elder was married to his sister Helaena only in 122AC, whilst Laenor had died in 120AC, and Rhaenyra married Daemon in 120AC as well. Aegon the Elder had not been betrothed to anyone previously. If the Greens had plotted the death of Laenor, it would have been important for them to have Aegon available for Rhaenyra to marry.

After Rhaenyra married Daemon, she couldn't marry Aegon. And thus Aegon was married to Helaena. To quote Lord Varys here:

To me, the Aegon-Helaena match in 122 clearly is an answer to the Rhaenyra-Daemon marriage, showing the Green supporters and the Realm 'Look, the other claimant, too, is a real Targaryen, he has married his sister!'

The deaths of Laenor and Harwin were a hard blow for the Blacks and their leadership. Harwin was called the foremost of the Blacks, and the marriage to Laenor ensured the Velaryon support. It is also possible that Lyonel was a supporter of Rhaenyra, a Hand intending to honour the whishes of the King he served.

So even though no one seems to suspect the Greens for either the deaths of Harwin and Lyonel, and the death of Laenor, they did really profit from the situation, and could potentially have gained even more from it, as mentioned above.

Daemon is named as a suspect for both murders, but looking more closely, Daemon killing Laenor might be rather unlikely. He seemed to care for Laena, and Laena and Rhaenyra got along very well. Killing his own brother-in-law would have been an extremely risky move, especially if anyone (especially the Greens) were to find out.

So here again, we can't forget about the Greens. First, let's take a look at the following examples:

1.

Jon Arryn was killed by his wife, Lysa Arryn, who did the poisoning because Petyr Baelish, the man she loved, had provided her with the means. No one ever suspected Lysa, or LF, however. The suspects quickly became Cersei and Jaime Lannister, as seen by several people. Here, it was made to look like the Lannisters were behind Jon Arryn's death, while in reality, they were innocent of this crime.

2.

Tyrion Lannister was accused and trialed for murdering Joffrey Baratheon. Through Tyrion's POV, we know he is innocent, and we've learned Joffs' true killers (LF and Olenna). In this case, perhaps even more clearly than in the first example, though it was another who did the actual killing, it was made to look like Tyrion had done the deed. Should a maester in current asoiaf times decide to write a book on the life of King Joffrey, he would be writing down that Tyrion had done the killing. And so it would go down in history, even though we know it isn't what actually happened.

Looking at Laenors death, perhaps this is what happened here as well. Perhaps Alicent, or another of the Greens, arranged Laenors death, but made it seem as if Daemon was behind it all. Perhaps with the motive to drive a wedge between Rhaenyra and Daemon (and thus keep Rhaenyra unwed). With the deaths of Harwin and Lyonel later, the way would be free for Alicent to convince Viserys to name Otto as his Hand again, and marry Rhaenyra to Aegon the Elder.

Lord Varys offers a possibility for the culprits not discussed before, for as far as I know: Rhaenyra. I'll quote here:

The motivations of the Strongs are really not discussed in detail in TRP. Did Rhaenyra get along with Ser Harwin until his death, or was their relationship growing colder? It's not mentioned that she was mourning all that much about both Laenor and Ser Harwin, which could provide us with another interesting possibility - Rhaenyra was behind either the murder of Laenor or Ser Harwin to be finally in the position to marry her uncle, Daemon (whose wife had just conveniently died).

That's not a very likely possibility, since both deaths also weakened her position and party, but it's interesting to think about it.

So... are the deaths of the Strongs and Laenor exactly as they seem, and Gyldayn tries to tell us... or is there something more going on?

[RumHam]

It was Black Harren's ghost, obviously.

[Lord Varys]

I think we could broaden the topic of the whole thread to encompass all the murder mysteries of TRP (perhaps you care to rename the thread, Rhaenys). I'd be very much surprised if the tragic events started by Laena's (natural) death were not heavily interconnected with one another.

In my opinion, it's possible that the fire of Harrenhal could have been a direct reaction to the death of Laenor. With Laena and Laenor dead, it was only a matter of time until Rhaenyra and Daemon might try to marry each other - which is why Daemon is suggested as a possible culprit for the fire at Harrenhal.

On the other hand, the Greens could also have a motive for the whole thing - by murdering Harwin and/or Lyonel, Alicent would have a chance to convince Viserys to make Ser Otto Hand again, and the death of Laenor (and Harwin, although the latter was not really necessary) provided Alicent with the opportunity to try to push Viserys again for a marriage between Rhaenyra and Aegon the Younger. There is a chance that Alicent wanted to play the Cersei game (get rid of the troublesome would-be heirs Stannis/Rhaenyra and Renly/Daemon before targeting the king you can handle). With Aegon married to Rhaenyra, the whole coup-thing would have been much easier, perhaps even unnecessary, since they could have tried to murder her after she had born Aegon's son.

To me, the Aegon-Helaena match in 122 clearly is an answer to the Rhaenyra-Daemon marriage, showing the Green supporters and the Realm 'Look, the other claimant, too, is a real Targaryen, he has married his sister!'

But that may have been only the second best idea - they may have intended to try to force Rhaenyra into a marriage with Aegon first. The other interesting thing is that both Laenor's and Harwin's/Lyonel's death pretty much destroyed the leadership of the Black party. Ser Harwin is called the foremost of the Blacks, and Lord Lyonel was most likely also Rhaenyra's ally. Thus, despite the fact that no one seems to suspect the Greens in that whole thing, they really profited from the whole development.

As to Daemon as a suspect: I'm really not sure if he was calculating/scrupulous enough to murder the brother of his former wife. Laena, Daemon, and Rhaenyra really got splendidly along prior to Laena's death - it's hinted that this, too, was a menage à trois - so I'd be surprised if Daemon really went as far as to murder his own brother-in-law - especially since this could have actually helped the Green cause if it came out, since the Velaryons would not idly stand by and not avenge their son. And Daemon had two daughters by Laena...

If we use the poisoning of Jon Arryn (or Joff's murder) as a model, then it could make sense to assume that another party - Alicent - arranged Laenor's murder to make it appear as if Daemon was behind it, if any proof popped up that Qarl Correy was bought. Alicent's ultimate goal would be to drive a wedge between Rhaenyra and the Velaryons, and to go through with the Rhaenyra-Aegon-match. The second step would be the removal of both Lord Lyonel and Ser Harwin to remake her father Hand (and to remove Ser Harwin, the man who would most likely try to marry Rhaenyra now).

The motivations of the Strongs are really not discussed in detail in TRP. Did Rhaenyra get along with Ser Harwin until his death, or was their relationship growing colder? It's not mentioned that she was mourning all that much about both Laenor and Ser Harwin, which could provide us with another interesting possibility - Rhaenyra was behind either the murder of Laenor or Ser Harwin to be finally in the position to marry her uncle, Daemon (whose wife had just conveniently died).

That's not a very likely possibility, since both deaths also weakened her position and party, but it's interesting to think about it.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

If someone will tell me how to rename the thread, I'll work in the other murder mysteries into the OP ;)

I'll get started on broading the OP in the meantime

[JonCon's Red Beard]

If someone will tell me how to rename the thread, I'll work in the other murder mysteries into the OP ;)

I'll get started on broading the OP in the meantime

Edit with full options.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Edit with full options.

Thank you!

[Fire Eater]

I think it was Larys. It does remind me of the Tragedy of Sumerhall where the king and his heir were killed (I think Varys was behind that, one of the inspirations for Larys).

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I think it was Larys. It does remind me of the Tragedy of Sumerhall where the king and his heir were killed (I think Varys was behind that, one of the inspirations for Larys).

But then Larys for Harwin and Lyonel only, right?

Or do you think he was involved in Laenors death as well?

[HexMachina]

I have said it before, I believe it was Larys behind the deaths of Harwin and Lyonel. He stands to gain the most from their deaths, particularly as Harwin, no longer being the lover of the future Queen, will be focused on marriage and producing heirs to inherit Harrenhal. At this time, iirc, Larys would be nothing but the Kings Confessor (does that mean torturer btw?) which is hardly a position of power. Larys seems an ambitious man, and with the deaths of his father and brother he inherits (or comes closer to inheriting, I forget whether he has more brothers) Harrenhal.

I'm not so sure about Laenor. I certainly think it a separate culprit to the Strong deaths.

[Maia]

But then Larys for Harwin and Lyonel only, right?

Or do you think he was involved in Laenors death as well?

Well, organizing the murder of Laenor and making sure that it remained completely mysterious would be in line with the skills that he later displayed as a Master of Whisperers, no? Also, if Daemon was capable of organizing stuff like that, I dare say that he would have gotten rid of his "bronze bitch" much sooner and would have done for some prominent members of the Green Party as well.

In fact, the Blood and Cheese thing kinda argues for Daemon not being behind these earlier murders, as it turned out to be much less effective than it could have been and not nearly as mysterious concerning the employer and the perpetrators as these earlier incidents.

Also, I imagine that Corlys and Rhaenys wouldn't have been as supportive of Rhaenyra as Daemon, if they had doubts about his culpability. Father of their granddaughters or not. And, of course, given the controversy of "Laenor's" children's parentage, the Greens may have hoped that by knocking out Laenor and casting the blame on Daemon for this, they'd create a rift between House Velaryon and Rhaenyra. But it didn't work that way.

So, yea, I like the idea that the Greens may have been gearing up to marry Rhaenyra to Aegon the Elder. He was 13 at the time, wasn't he? And clearly already sexually active, or looking to become so ASAP. That would have meant that Rhaenyra would have had to come to court, as I doubt that Alicent would have countenanced sending Aegon to Dragonstone. But of course, the notion that if Rhaenyra became Hand, she'd have had to bring her sons to KL was always rather facetious, given that Dragonstone was in easy reach of KL on dragonback and we know of other Hands, who didn't choose to bring their children to court. Sure, Rhaenyra as a mother may have been expected to be more attached to her children than a father would have been, but then again, she could have shuttled between KL and Dragonstone more easily even than Tywin did between KL and the Rock.

[Lord Varys]

Well, we could also try to connect certain dots there between Larys and Alicent. The fire at Harrenhal enabled Alicent to push Viserys for Ser Otto's reappointment, later on - TRP unfortunately doesn't state the year - Lord Larys Strong becomes Master of Whisperers. Before that, Larys was apparently stuck in the torturer department - I guess he may not have been that happy down there... We don't know all that much about Ser Harwin Strong, but what we know (or suspect) shows that he was both ambitious (telling Viserys about Daemon 'heir for a day'-line) and unscrupulous (becoming Rhaenyra's 'official paramour'). We don't know anything about Lyonel/Harwin's relationship with his brother or father, but the fact that he apparently did not make that good a career at KL could indicate that they were not all that fond of him (it could be a Tyrion-Tywin relationship, to a somewhat lesser degree) If he took out his father and his brother, it's possible that this was done out of personal ambition and as a service to Queen Alicent.

He became Lord of Harrenhal, and later, after Alicent successfully reinstalled her father as Hand, Ser Otto saw to it, that Lord Larys joined the Small Council as Master of Whisperers. That way, all parties involved prospered, and this could also be a hint as to why Larys turned out to be 'Green to the core' upon Viserys' death and later on, when he came up with a really great plan to get Aegon II out of the city to safety.

In that sense, both Harwin and Lyonel may have been the targets of the fire - out of personal ambition (Larys), to make way for Ser Otto as the new, old Hand, and to finally force Rhaenyra to marry Prince Aegon (the latter failed).

In that sense, the murder of Laenor could also have been a thing arranged by the Greens (though not necessarily with the help of Larys). Alicent would have been very interested in inside information on the relationship between Laenor and Rhaenyra (perhaps to use it to finally ruin her), so originally she might have had Ser Qarl Correy just on her payroll to feed her information. Later on she used his desperation - both financially and emotionally (Laenor wanted to replace him) - to convince him to kill him for money. As queen and a Hightower Alicent would have certainly had the money to arrange a thing like that.

[The hairy bear]

There's one interesting angle to this murder mystery to consider: we know that in the early development of this story, Lyonel Strong married Rhaenyra while being the Hand and fathered her first three sons. In this scenario, some of the suspects make less sense (Corlys, Viserys, and even Daemon). Meanwhile, the greens emerge as the most likely culprit. Lyonel would be firmly in the black camp, and even if king Viserys hadn't decided to reinstate Ser Otto, anyone would be better that Lyonel at that point.

This is also valid for the current version of the story. Lyonel would have surely supported the blacks in a succession crisis: if not for his heir's sake, for the possibility of puting "grandsons" in the throne. Everything seems to indicate that the greens had been preparing their coup for a long time, and for that they needed Lyonel (and Harwin) out of the picture.

[Ali Colak]

What about a collaboration between Larys and Daemon?

People generally seem to assume that the friend that Daemon referred to in TPATQ wasn't Larys, considering how the story ended, but what if it was?

Consider it: Larys and Daemon begin conspiring at about this time to put Rhaenyra and Daemon on the throne, with Larys established both in the small council and at Harrenhal. Larys doesn't seem to be the type of man to play his cards up front, and stays quiet during small council meetings, helping the blacks through subversive means. About the time that Rhaenyra takes over King’s Landing however, Larys isn't sure if Daemon and Rhaenyra will be competent rulers, especially as Rhaenyra is slowly becoming unbalanced. There is also the fear that Aemond may take over from his brother. Larys sneaks Aegon and family away, just to make sure he has escape an route if he needs one. And, after Rhaenyra flees Dragonstone and Daemon dies, he betrays the blacks and reestablishes Aegon.

[The hairy bear]

Theblindwolf,

I'd say that Larys actions after the king's death would not be consistent with your hypothesis: not only he declares for Aegon and gives sensible advice on how to proceed, but also demands that every other member of the council swears a blood oath to the green cause to ensure that no one changes his mind. That's not an action that would be done by a man who has doubts, or that intends to have a foot on each side of the war.

Also, Larys singlehandedly saved the greens from defeat when King's Landing fell, before Rhaenyra was showing signs of madness. If the blacks had captured Aegon and his heir, the war was all but over.

[Maia]

I do think that Larys may have been the "friend" that Daemon alluded to, but IMHO he played the prince thoroughly in the end. After all, the Greens preparations for seizing power over the decade of Rhaenyra's exile should have been unmistakeable, and given Daemon's contacts in KL, he should have heard about most of them. Appointments alone should have spelled out a pretty clear picture for any reasonably non-stupid persons.

Nevertheless, the Blacks were caught completely by surprise, when the Greens made their move for the throne.

IMHO, it coud have only been possible if somebody from the "inner circle" of the Greens had been steadily feeding them misinformation. Somebody, who had the means to independantly verify what he had been told by the Hightowers and Co. Somebody whom the Blacks thought that they had a good reason to trust, only it turned out that they were wrong.

And no, I don't think that it could have been Orwyle, given the heavy hints of dodgy demise of his predecessor Grandmaester Gerardys, who was a Black loyalist, shortly before Viserys's death, and Orwyle's own relative neutrality. I mean, he wrote down the unflattering account of Aegon's acsension, he was clearly no ardent supporter of the Greens or a long-time co-conspirator. He may have even been new to KL.

So, yea, I think that Larys was the real kingmaker.

[Fire Eater]

But then Larys for Harwin and Lyonel only, right?

Or do you think he was involved in Laenors death as well?

I don't think he was involved in Laenor's death. He had nothing to gain from it.

[joluoto2]

I still think the man suspects are the one listed by Gyldayn. With Larys and Daemon being the front runners. I don't think Viserys had it in him, because he doesn't seem like a person who'd consider murder. On the other hand he could have been convinced by his advisors, or by Alicient.

We don't know enough about Larys, except he's a really sneaky guy. Prince Daemon is ruthless enough to do something like this though. Corlys.... it's possible, but not really the first name you'll consider.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

What about a collaboration between Larys and Daemon?

People generally seem to assume that the friend that Daemon referred to in TPATQ wasn't Larys, considering how the story ended, but what if it was?

Consider it: Larys and Daemon begin conspiring at about this time to put Rhaenyra and Daemon on the throne, with Larys established both in the small council and at Harrenhal. Larys doesn't seem to be the type of man to play his cards up front, and stays quiet during small council meetings, helping the blacks through subversive means. About the time that Rhaenyra takes over Kings Landing however, Larys isn't sure if Daemon and Rhaenyra will be competent rulers, especially as Rhaenyra is slowly becoming unbalanced. There is also the fear that Aemond may take over from his brother. Larys sneaks Aegon and family away, just to make sure he has escape an route if he needs one. And, after Rhaenyra flees Dragonstone and Daemon dies, he betrays the blacks and reestablishes Aegon.

I'm thinking more about a collaboration between Larys and Alicent/Otto. Daemon didn't change (much) between 120AC and 129AC, and Rhaenyra was not unbalanced until after her 6th pregnancy, the stillbirth, the deaths of several of her sons, and facing multiple betrayels.

Tpatq suggests absolutely no loyalty of Larys to Rhaenyra, not even a small hint. He seems to be firmly in camp Green at the first small council meeting, the night Viserys died. All he does later on, is helping the Greens when defeat seems certain, by smuggling out the King and his heirs and KG. Nothing in TRP suggests friendship between Larys and Daemon, or loyalty from Larys to the Blacks either.

Larys might have been involved with Harrenhal and the fire, but even if he was, Alicent and her Greens could have helped him. It wasn't only Larys who stood to gain directly from the accident, after all.

Plotting something like this, could help Larys to not be a kinslayer, by being the one to convince Lyonel to go to Harrenhal with Harwin, and with the Greens arranging the fire. And, it would establish Larys firmly in Green camp, by helping the job of Hand becoming free again for Otto.

Larys' involvement would only work, however, if he did not have a good relationship with his father and brother.

[Lord Varys]

If Alicent wanted to get Lord Lyonel out of the way to reinstall her father, then getting rid of Lord Lyonel would have been a necessity. Considering that Gyldayn describes Lyonel as very learned, shrewd guy, which could indicate that he was a very capable player of the game, the idea that she eventually got rid of him through Larys is quite alluring (at least to me).

As a Strong himself, Larys would have had both access to and friends he could trust in Harrenhal. And considering both Lyonel's and Harwin's association with Rhaenyra - Harwin was apparently the official leader of the Blacks - it's very strange (and suspicious) indeed that Larys Strong would rise to the Small Council and become Master of Whisperers after Ser Otto was remade Hand. That could have been Larys' reward.

That could also explain why he later backed the Greens so strongly upon Viserys' death.

On Larys himself:

I don't think we should overplay him. Just because his name rhymes with Varys doesn't mean he is as competent as Varys.. Especially not this early in his career. He is nothing but a confessor at this point, and I don't think he shows Littlefinger/Varys-like competence later on during the Dance. All he does is use the secret tunnels under the Red Keep to get the king and his children out (pretty much everyone would have done that). Getting Aegon II to Dragonstone sounds like a good idea, but it was actually very risky. Aegon was not discovered by the wrong people out of sheer luck, even more luck enabled him to eventually take the citadel of Dragonstone, and he practically broke the jackpot when Rhaenyra returned to the island, ignorant of what had transpired there.

Thus I'd also not suspect that Larys had a hand/was involved in the murder of Laenor. That would have been somebody controlling Ser Qarl Correy. I'd suspect Alicent/the Greens, since she would have been very interested in acquiring intelligence/dirt on Rhaenyra she could later use to ruin her. With Laenor threatening to replace Qarl, Alicent may have jumped on the chance to convince him to murder Laenor for money.

With TRP we should have more or less enough to assume that Daemon's mistress, Mysaria 'Miserys the White Worm' of Lys was 'the pale stranger', the person behind Blood and Cheese. We know that she went to Lys at the beginning of TRP, but no ever said that she did not return, and apparently there is a Lady Mysaria later at the Red Keep with Rhaenyra, shortly before she abandons the city. That should be one and the same - after Blood and Cheese Mysaria would have been rewarded later on, I guess.

Daemon's man on the Green Council is as of yet still unknown, and things got further complicated due to the Gerardys/Orwyle problem - if OrwyleTPatQ was GerardysTRP (or GerardysTRP OrwyleTPatQ), then he as former Maester of Dragonstone could have clearly been the Black loyalist on the Green Council - feigning loyalty to the Greens because he could not prevent the coup, but providing the Blacks with information about the events transpiring in the capital.

[Anath]

On Laenor's murder: he was an obstacle in the Greens' path since he and Rhaenyra seemed to be on very good terms and he brought her the powerful Velaryon support. The rumours of their sons' bastardy would look far less convincing when Laenor was alive and recognizing them as his. As we saw, even Alicent didn't dare overreach and say something to Laenor's face at the birth of yet another brown-haired boy, other than a biting remark.

Laenor's death would make it easier to reap discord between Rhaenyra and Corlys, at the same time making the version of the boys being bastards much more powerful since the father who recognized them as his was no longer.