[SPOILERS] Tower Lord: Book 2 of Raven's Shadow

[Gaston de Foix]

Allow me to flaunt my knowledge you simpleton, the General's wife is named Fornella :P

Does she have any special powers? I don't remember any, but maybe she can do some magic or something?

[ᴛɪᴍᴏᴛʜʏ]

Good catch re Orena.

Also we have a spoiler thread to discuss book 2

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113711-spoilers-tower-lord-book-2-of-ravens-shadow/

well spotted, Timothy I missed that completely. I wish there were more clever little details of that kind- any fantasy writer in the post GRRM era should have these arrows in their quiver.

She seems to be of age with Vaelin too. Wonder how the two are related. For all we know, Vardrian is the Johnson of their world, but I somehow doubt it.

There's also Lyrna's failure to remark on it. If she doesn't know the family name of Vaelin's mother, not very man people can.

I did a quick search for "Orena", and aside from an impression that getting a publisher seems to have benefited the editing not at all, the book offers up a few things: she was married once, for money; she suffers the same kind of abuse as Murel on the Volarian ship, but handles it a little better; she implies a past life that's maybe less than nobly lived; she quickly becomes romantically attached to Harvin, and seems to be getting over him just as quickly after his death. That's what we've got.

[dni]

I also liked Tower Lord, but not as much as the first book. Of the new POVs, I liked Lyrna's the most. I also agree with others that having Reva become a sword master and bow master over the course of several months was way to quick. Maybe it would have been better for the priest to have trained her in everything. It's not like she would have had a chance to kill Vaelin with full training anyway.

I'm not sure how everything can be wrapped up in one more book. Is this still supposed to be a trilogy? Taking the fight to the Volarians and defeating the Ally seems like a lot to squeeze into one more book. We still don't even really know much about the Ally at this point. The Hope's wife and the Alpirans have been set up to be allies against the Volarians and the Ally, and that storyline seems like it will need quite a bit of time to develop.

I didn't make a connection until the end of the book, but I think Lady Veliss is the whore used by Janus in book 1 as a spy and that Vaelin let go. If this is the case, I wonder what significance that will have in the next book.

I always wondered if the whore used by Janus would turn out to be Sherin's mom. Since their situations seemed so similar. Janus' spy was caught stabbing some rich person "50 times" and she's a whore with special skills that make her a good spy... since she knew how to sneak around and find Vaelin's father I figure she's got to be more than just a whore. Sherin's mom was a master thief that also did some whoring... and she stabbed a rich guy that had caught Sherin and kept stabbing him until they took her away. Though her age wouldn't really make sense unless she just looks younger than she is... and sherin's mom was hanged while the spy faked a suicide before getting snuck out of prison. Seems like Sherin is pretty much gone from the story though so I guess that crazy theory is dead.

[trickster]

Does she have any special powers? I don't remember any, but maybe she can do some magic or something?

Don't think so.

I always wondered if the whore used by Janus would turn out to be Sherin's mom. Since their situations seemed so similar. Janus' spy was caught stabbing some rich person "50 times" and she's a whore with special skills that make her a good spy... since she knew how to sneak around and find Vaelin's father I figure she's got to be more than just a whore. Sherin's mom was a master thief that also did some whoring... and she stabbed a rich guy that had caught Sherin and kept stabbing him until they took her away. Though her age wouldn't really make sense unless she just looks younger than she is... and sherin's mom was hanged while the spy faked a suicide before getting snuck out of prison. Seems like Sherin is pretty much gone from the story though so I guess that crazy theory is dead.

As we have discussed upthread, Lady Veliss is the spy/whore.

[dni]

As we have discussed upthread, Lady Veliss is the spy/whore.

Yeah I agree with that, just saying that my crazy theory was also that she was Sherin's mother. Felt like too much of a coincidence for them both to of stabbed a rich merchant a bunch of times / been whores / had sneaking around skills and then for such a minor character to be named and show up again in book 2 etc.. Though since someone earlier in the thread posted a link to the author saying Sherin won't show up again I'm changing my mind. No idea why the author is keeping her around, though he does seem to like having old minor characters pop up again.

As far as the book goes I felt like it was a good book maybe even a really good book. However it was also a really disappointing sequel... if that makes any sense. It was just too different from the style of the first book. Maybe it's just because I read them back to back but going from a single viewpoint driven book covering a decade + of a characters life with lots of internal development to the more fantasy typical multi viewpoint jumping all around high action and only maybe covering a few months to a year style was just too drastic a change. Had to really force myself to get through it and found myself skimming a lot to get to viewpoints I wanted to read.

[johndance]

I loved Blood song. Absolutely loved it. I am really, really trying hard to get into this one, but it's just not happening. I am just so bored with it. I am 300 pages into it, and it's taken me 3 weeks to get that far. I'm having trouble willing myself to continue on. I finished Blood Song in about 2 days and couldn't put it down. I'm gonna keep pushing through and hope that a switch flips for me I suppose.

[BigFatCoward]

i haven't finished this, but even though i only read book one about a year ago i have absolutely no idea who anyone is (other than the main character), or what is going on, i've never had this before with a book. is it just me?

anybody know of a comprehensive but condensed precis so i can recap?

[Corvinus85]

i haven't finished this, but even though i only read book one about a year ago i have absolutely no idea who anyone is (other than the main character), or what is going on, i've never had this before with a book. is it just me?

anybody know of a comprehensive but condensed precis so i can recap?

No you are not the only one. I re-read the first book just before Tower Lord was released, because I could not remember much, though things started coming back to me as I was reading. Ask yer questions here, and people will try to answer.

[Khaleesi of Gateshead]

Re Lady Veliss - if she is the spy from book 1 who Vaelin allowed to escape - which his song did not want him to do - and if I am remembering this correctly, Janus said she was 'gifted' and she came across as very cold emotionally so she could easily have no or little conscience about using people to gain what she wants therefore could Lady Veliss have become what Lord Muster needed in a partner whilst spying for the Volarians or the 'Ally' ?? and is now doing the same with Reva?

Perhaps she is avoiding Lyrna's gaze because she is worried in case Lyrna has seen her before when she had perhaps been to the palace to speak to Janus .

Any thoughts?

Apologies if this has already been said.

[henderson]

TOWER LORD was not too bad, but not as good as BLOOD SONG. Interested in reading the next book. BTW, how many books will be in this sequence?

[trickster]

Re Lady Veliss - if she is the spy from book 1 who Vaelin allowed to escape - which his song did not want him to do - and if I am remembering this correctly, Janus said she was 'gifted' and she came across as very cold emotionally so she could easily have no or little conscience about using people to gain what she wants therefore could Lady Veliss have become what Lord Muster needed in a partner whilst spying for the Volarians or the 'Ally' ?? and is now doing the same with Reva?

Perhaps she is avoiding Lyrna's gaze because she is worried in case Lyrna has seen her before when she had perhaps been to the palace to speak to Janus .

Any thoughts?

Apologies if this has already been said.

The whore (she was called Derla at the time) was spying on Vaelin's family and found out that they were going to the deniers' meetings to pray. The song's warning suggested that this knowledge and what the king wanted to do with this knowledge (balckmail Vaelin to counsel the Aspect to send the Order to the Alpiran empire) were dangerous. The next line is a bit confusing as it says"but most of all the danger of the blood song telling him to kill them both". I interpreted this as the song was warning him of the danger of killing them. The other way to interpret this is that the song wanted him to kill them both to keep his family safe. However the song remained silent after the king left and Vaelin decided to let her go. Vaelin was worried that the song will return.

So I am pretty sure that Veliss is not spying for the Volarians.

[Calibandar]

TOWER LORD was not too bad, but not as good as BLOOD SONG. Interested in reading the next book. BTW, how many books will be in this sequence?

Three is still the plan as I read it, with Queen of Fire confirmed as coming out in July 2015.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

The upcoming BLACKGUARDS: Tales of Assassins, Mercenaries, and Rogues anthology will feature a 15k-word Raven’s Shadow novella ‘The Lord Collector’.

This is an all-new, previously unpublished fifteen thousand word story set in the Raven’s Shadow universe, featuring a guest appearance by a pale eyed, raspy voiced Master from the Sixth Order of our prior acquaintance.

http://anthonystuff.wordpress.com/2014/08/30/blackguards-kickstarter-funded-stretch-goal-reached/

[johndance]

Finally finished this. Glad I'm did. The first 400 pages or so were a big struggle for me. I was bored. When a chapter would end and the POV would switch I found myself lost, not remembering what was happening to the character. I had to go back and find their last chapter and read the last page just to remind myself what was going on. The first 400 pages were really, really underwhelming and disappointing.

I will say, however, that the last 3rd of the book turned completely around and it was like I was truly reading an extension of the first book. I blasted through the last 3rd in one sitting. Happy I stuck it out, and now I'm looking forward to the last book. Glad everyone was able to somewhat decipher the siblings and who some of the other characters were, as I was a bit confused on this. Reading this thread helped a lot, so thanks for that.

I didn't like how it ended. Seemed like a cheesy cliffhanger, and it was confusing. Again after reading through here then re-reading the last couple of pages it makes a bit more sense. I assume that it was Weaver with his rope he was making that took out the last assassin. He then hugs Lyrna and does something to her which Ryan describes as 'she burned'.

So as with Frentis before, when Lyrna knifed him, he 'burned' and then his scars were somewhat healed and he was freed from whatever spell was controlling him. So at first I figured Weaver was healing her. The only other thing I can contrive has to do with this prophecy and with the title of the next book. "prophesy says that the Darkblade will be seduced by a sorceress who made herself a queen with the power to conjure up fire from the air. Together they wreck terrible ruin on the world...."

So the only other thing I can think of if we want to rule out she is being healed, is that Weaver is someone more important or not who we think he is, and is not healing her, but is bringing her 'gift'. The phrase at the very end 'she burned' meaning that she is realizing her gift that allows her to conjure fire and her body is feeling the side effects of being able to do so. Her gift takes on that of fire, due to her experience she already had being so badly burned. She is literally burning inside because she can now feel/manipulate fire. This would fit the prophecy, and also give some meaning to the title of the next book. I have nothing to substantiate this, it's just a guess.

Only other person that would be the 'Queen of Fire' is Frentis' wife/BFF/captor. She can literally conjure up fire. She is featured towards the end speaking to Vaelin in the room/box whatever that Vaelin's consciousness is in before I believe Dahrena uses her gift to bring him back.

[AverageGuy]

Only other person that would be the 'Queen of Fire' is Frentis' wife/BFF/captor.

Fits pretty well with Frentis being the actual Darkblade.

[drawkcabi]

I just finished Tower Lord this morning, here were my conclusions before I even read this thread:

Elverah/Frentis' "wife" is one of the 3 siblings along with Witch's Bastard (who we've seen as One Eye, Barkus, and briefly a few others including stinky guy on Toklev's ship) and Kiral.

99.9% positive Veliss was the prostitute/Janus' spy Vaelin encountered in Book 1

Weaver healed Lyrna at the end.

If Lyrna ends up with anyone, it will be the Shield. After all Janus did to the Meldeneans and causing strife between them and the realm, the marriage of Lyrna and the Shield will end up creating a strong alliance and maybe even having the Meldeneans join the realm peacefully.

If Vaelin ends up with anyone, it will be Dahrena. Dahrena spoke of how heartbroken she was after her husband dies and she was ready to die as well. She went into the forest to touch the stone and talked to the blind woman. The blind woman told her something that would ease her pain. I am guessing that something was that she would love again and then she told her a little bit about her future love. When Dahrena meets Vaelin (not counting the time she met him as a child) she is a little standoffish towards him like Adal is. Then as Vaelin starts exhibiting qualities like that the blind woman said Dahrena's future husband would show, at first she is worried about this, but by the end of book 2 she loves him. Adal also loves Dahrena so bit of a live triangle there and more reason for him to not get along with Vaelin, but maybe Adal and Alornis end up together?

After reading Trickster's theory I find I'm in agreement with him that Frentis could be the actual Darkblade and Elverah is the witch, and maybe he will still cause future trouble for Cumbrael.

I can't decide if I liked book 1 or book 2 better. I liked them both. Book 2 did start off slow but trally picked up about halfway through and I rushed through the last 20% in one sitting not being able to put it down.

In the beginning, every time I came to a Lyrna chapter I inwardly groaned. I found her journey into the Lonak lands the most tedious parts, but after she met with the Mahlessa and started her return trip, her story got more interesting and by the last third of the book, it was one of the best POV's.

Reva's POV was maybe a bit derivative and a bit mary sue-ish, but I am a sucker for a good siege story and that's what I found in her POV in the last half. All the POV in the story were either Vaelin or grew from people that Vaelin had a significant impact on their lives. Reva was the only one we didn't know until this book, and maybe that's why she seemed the least developed.

There were numerous references and homages to so many other fantasy works in both books, one of my favorites was references to Vernier's "Cantos of Gold and Dust". While it can refer to a poem, I immediately thought of the Italian translation for cantos which is "song". When I think of "The Cantos of Gold and Dust" I have an idea in my head of a story written like an amalgamation of a GRRM and John Steinbeck work :P

[BigWilleyStyle]

Finished Tower Lord. Have the same basic impressions as everyone else. One thing that was jarring to me was they way the author chose to employ the role of the historian Verniers in book 2. In Book 1 it was the familiar, here we are now, but how did we get here style. But in Tower Lord it took me quite a while to figure out that Verniers narrative was running ahead of the rest of the character's timelines. It all came together at the end, but it struck me as an attempt to be "extra creative" without any real benefit.

I do have one thing I can't figure out from the final battle. Who was the nameless solider in the Volarian army that Vaelin uses his blood song to isolate before he goes charging into their ranks. He cuts through all these people to find the guy and then basically ignores him while he kills the nearby enemy troops. Laters, he see's that the guy is killed by someone else.

Who was this? Was it another one of the Ally's servants that had been bodysnatched? And why didn't Vaelin kill him himself? This really confused me. Probably need to re-read.

[BigWilleyStyle]

I do have one thing I can't figure out from the final battle. Who was the nameless solider in the Volarian army that Vaelin uses his blood song to isolate before he goes charging into their ranks. He cuts through all these people to find the guy and then basically ignores him while he kills the nearby enemy troops. Laters, he see's that the guy is killed by someone else.

Who was this? Was it another one of the Ally's servants that had been bodysnatched? And why didn't Vaelin kill him himself? This really confused me. Probably need to re-read.

Never mind. Answered my own question. He was the captive scout or whatever that Vaelin used to send a message to the Volarian General. Bit of Deus Ex Machina by the writer there IMO

[Pecan]

I liked this book okay, but I also had a lot of the same troubles that everyone else did remembering who some of the secondary and tertiary characters were.

A couple of comments:

I was bothered by the revelation of Vaelin's illiteracy. Or at least, I don't remember that particular revelation from Blood Song, so I'm assuming it only came up in Tower Lord. Basically, it seems somewhat implausible to me that the sixth order would put brothers out into the world that don't have basic reading skills.

I liked the Reva character but found her rapid transformation from half-starved fanatical lunatic assassin to master swordswoman to heir to Cumbrael and then Lady of Cumbrael a bit of a stretch. And of course she seems unusually knowledgeable about defending a city under siege even though she's had no military training. Echoes of Mary Sue?

[Pecan]

Just one more comment. I do like this author, but there's something about this world that seems half-baked. I'm not getting a sense of epic scope and deep history. In the best novels of any sort of epic fiction, there is a sense of breadth, that the events happening within the plot exist within a much bigger world. GRRM does this well with ASOIAF, Erikson with Malazan, and of course LOTR. Even WOT, which isn't anything special, does this pretty well.