GRRM drops everything to write TWOW

[Veltigar]

I could say the same about this post.

The point is GRRM has stated how many months it takes him to actually write the books (18-24).

It is widely known that he doesnt write when he is traveling or otherwise occupied - this spreads those months over much more than 1.5-2years of time.

Considering the title of this thread, "GRRM drops everything to wrote TWoW" I felt why not speculate on how much time since July 2011 he has actually devoted to doing just that.

But Im just REALLY trying to be snarky and rude. Like for real. Thats why the internet exists of course.

It's a valiant effort, but impossible I think. We can determine how many months he spent on his vacations and on the show, but we can't determine how much of the remaining time he used to actually write tWoW. He has also edited several anthologies (though I suspect Gardner Dozois did most of the actual work), worked on She-Wolves of WF for a while and he has written many, many pages that will eventually go into Fire & Blood and on which the TWOIAF is based (Imo that's a positive signal, if GRRM is still able to churn out many pages on Westerosi history, that means he isn't fed up with the world). Without knowing those factors, we're still stumbling in the dark and every guess we make would probably be wildly inaccurate.

[Cas Stark]

Just checked GRRM's future appearances page, and he's free from late August until mid May.

Other people might know, but how far in advance does he usually have his future appearances listed?

If this is a departure to have that much space cleared, then it could be he's at long last, finally attempting to finish the book in time for a Q1 release in 2016. Or, I guess you could look at that really optimistically as a release summer of 2015, but based on the whole of his comments and actions and those of his publisher, I think that unlikely.

[DaveSumm]

Is there a way of filtering the thread so only Wert's posts show? It's just bringing me down now, GRRM does precisely what the naysayers wanted and actually turned down other projects to focus on WoW and we still turn it into a bitch fest about how slow he is (despite Wert's comprehensive analysis of why he isn't actually that slow) and how it's not his top priority (if a million words and counting isn't his 'top priority' then I'd love to see what is).

We have absolutely no idea how much he's done in the last 18 months. None. The ONLY person who knows has said things are going better than aDwD, that's all we have to go on. So chin up, ay?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Do you have a link to support this? I do remember GRRM posting on his Not Blog during the fall of 2012 about how he was currently writing about "the original" Dance of Dragons.

Well, the contract for the World Book was signed in 2006. This quote is a bit a summary of how the World Book came to be:

Elio and Linda went through all the published novels, the Dunk & Egg stories, etc, pulled out the historical references, legends, and such, organized all of that into a chronology, and wrote a first draft. Then I stepped in, revising their draft, filling the holes, answering questions, resolving contradictions, and adding new material where little or none existed in the published books. Of course, as with the novels, "the tale(s) grew in the telling," and I ended up adding a LOT... so much that in the end we had to rip out more than two hundred thousand words of it (which will eventually appear in the GRRMarillion). In the cases where I wrote way, way, way too much, Elio and Linda then went back in and produced a severely abridged version.

For instance, the full account of the Dance of the Dragons ran to 80,000 words, a novel all by itself. Gardner Dozois trimmed that to 30,000 words for DANGEROUS WOMEN, producing "The Princess and the Queen." Elio and Linda produced an entirely DIFFERENT abridgement (even shorter, I believe) for THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE, working from the same text. For the full version, you will need to wait...

Originally, Dangerous Women would contain the fourth D&E story. GRRM expressed difficulty in writing the ending of the story, and thus the D&E story was cancelled for the time being, and from storages the story about the Dance was pulled up, because it "kind of" fitted the theme. The fact that GRRM didn't drop everything to finish the D&E in time, but took the story of the Dance instead, would have made him save quite some time. Perhaps that was indeed 2012, from the NaB that you remember.

It could be that the part of "did not delay WOW" of my post was a merge of information I've read about the World book, about info I've read about the app:

So the official George and his publisher approved World of Ice and Fire app is available. I can attest to the fact that he personally worked on this project, because I sat and took notes as we went over hundreds of questions on random Ice and Fire arcana. No, it didn't delay Winds of Winter. I made him do it while he ate lunch. Yes, he complains when I make him work during lunch.

[Edmure's Floppy Fish]

Is there a way of filtering the thread so only Wert's posts show? It's just bringing me down now, GRRM does precisely what the naysayers wanted and actually turned down other projects to focus on WoW and we still turn it into a bitch fest about how slow he is (despite Wert's comprehensive analysis of why he isn't actually that slow) and how it's not his top priority (if a million words and counting isn't his 'top priority' then I'd love to see what is).

We have absolutely no idea how much he's done in the last 18 months. None. The ONLY person who knows has said things are going better than aDwD, that's all we have to go on. So chin up, ay?

His U.S. publisher said he turned in less than 200 pages in 2012 and that is all she has seen. She also said he has more chapters that she doesn't know about but that doesn't mean he is nearly finished.

GRRM was pretty consistent in turning over MS pages to his publisher for ADWD (according to his blog post in May 2011 describing how he killed Kong) So for him to have only turned over 200 pages says one of two things;

1. He is changing the manner in which he submits completed portions of his book to his publisher. Or

2. He hasn't written much since completing ADWD.

I don't think it is unrealistic to assume he hasn't written much considering how busy he has been with some of these other projects and traveling. (Which are his right)

I am one of the ones who have criticized Martin, but that doesn't mean I'm not happy he is actually devoting time to write the book. My only issue has been people saying it is D&D's fault the show is over taking the books and in the same post say I should be grateful Martin has written these books.

The people who think Martin has written these books in a reasonable amount of time are entitled to their opinion, just as the rest of us are entitled to be frustrated with waiting 11 years for 2 books.

Martin himself has acknowledged he is a slow writer, I don't see how people can argue he is a fast writer. To be a self admitted slow writer and acknowledge that the show is going to tell your ending if you don't do something about it, but yet still travel to cons all over the world has been a little frustrating. As I said before, I am thrilled he is finally devoting some time to the book, I just think he is too little too late.

[DreamSongs]

Thanks Wert. Always the voice of reason :)

[Cas Stark]

With all due respect to the owners of this site, I do not believe that GRRM's multiple side projects, side writing projects, side editing projects could have had "no" impact on his progress on Winds. I don't believe it. He may say it, he may try to convince himself of it, just as he apparently tried to convince himself that there were 3+ seasons of TV in Feast and Dance. But, that doesn't make it true.

And, it would especially be false if we are also supposed to believe that such a truly small writing project such as a single episode for the show is going to make some kind of a difference in his progress on the novel. I'm glad he seems at long last to be focusing on the novel, but, yes, it seems too little too late.

[raj34]

There is no point to this thread. You can't retroactively reshuffle your priorities. If Martin had written a script for season 5, he would have had to have completed it weeks ago. Nothing has changed.

[Cas Stark]

There is no point to this thread. You can't retroactively reshuffle your priorities. If Martin had written a script for season 5, he would have had to have completed it weeks ago. Nothing has changed.

Well, there is still a point to it, because whatever the timeframe, he still is not writing an episode and was not involved at all in casting...so for whatever reason...he is much more distanced from the show now than in the past.

I'm sort of unclear on how the timing goes since the cast have not yet received the scripts...so I guess it's possible that some episodes are still being written, not sure. But, I'd say yes that generally this is something being announced now that was decided months ago....

Which to me suggests it has less to do with the novel and more to do with GRRM relationship to the show.

[Talking Hodor]

He hasn't had a real deadline until now. The show passing him is a real deadline. Otherwise, you can get around to a novel whenever. Some people, like me, for example, don't tend to get much done when the deadline is "whenever."

If I were him, I'd be bending over backwards to finish the novel so that I could earn a gazillion dollars to buy things I really like. He could go from Michael Crichton-rich to JK Rowling-rich in a matter of weeks.

[raj34]

I'm sort of unclear on how the timing goes since the cast have not yet received the scripts...so I guess it's possible that some episodes are still being written, not sure. But, I'd say yes that generally this is something being announced now that was decided months ago....

The showrunners are on record about the scripts being completed by June 1st. They can't set the wheels in motion on the biggest and most complex project in TV without having the effing scripts already written.

[Cas Stark]

If I were him, I'd be bending over backwards to finish the novel so that I could earn a gazillion dollars to buy things I really like. He could go from Michael Crichton-rich to JK Rowling-rich in a matter of weeks.

Isn't he already pretty rich? I have no idea what kind of deal he did w/HBO, and it's true that artists even today sometimes negotiate really poor deals for themselves, so it could have been some kind of lump sum thing, w/no share of merchandising, type of deal or not....I would also assume he's made serious money off the books.

[sj4iy]

The showrunners are on record about the scripts being completed by June 1st. They can't set the wheels in motion on the biggest and most complex project in TV without having the effing scripts already written.

You're missing the point. He's gone on record to say that he's cleared his calendar. It looks pretty much cleared after August. Writing the script would have put him a month behind. It's not necessarily about future projects, it's about clearing the schedule completely and turning down all extraneous material. He said he's not even going to make a set visit this year. Had he written the script, it would have been a necessity. It's all to do with the domino effect.

[raj34]

You're missing the point. He's gone on record to say that he's cleared his calendar. It looks pretty much cleared after August. Writing the script would have put him a month behind. It's not necessarily about future projects, it's about clearing the schedule completely and turning down all extraneous material. He said he's not even going to make a set visit this year. Had he written the script, it would have been a necessity. It's all to do with the domino effect.

It would have only put him ahead another month if he spent that freed up time writing tWoW. But he didn't. He was traveling.

Clearing the schedule up in the future is a separate issue unrelated to the hypothetical script that he didn't write a few months ago. And I haven't read anywhere that a set visit is mandatory for a script writer. Typically script writers aren't even welcome on the set of many projects, since all the power passes to the producer and director anyway.

[sj4iy]

It would have only put him ahead another month if he spent that freed up time writing tWoW. But he didn't. He was traveling.

Clearing the schedule up in the future is a separate issue unrelated to the hypothetical script that he didn't write a few months ago. And I haven't read anywhere that a set visit is mandatory for a script writer. Typically script writers aren't even welcome on the set of many projects, since all the power passes to the producer and director anyway.

What, you don't think he would have finished the script and then do his traveling? The plain, simple fact is that he's cleared his schedule to write. I don't get why people are so desperate to twist this into something it's not. He said he did it so he could write and that's what he's going to do.

[Cas Stark]

What, you don't think he would have finished the script and then do his traveling? The plain, simple fact is that he's cleared his schedule to write. I don't get why people are so desperate to twist this into something it's not. He said he did it so he could write and that's what he's going to do.

I have no idea. He doesn't appear to have very logical work habits if you ask me. And the plain simple fact to me is that announcing, now, that you aren't going to write an episode for season 5, which in point of fact, you would have already written months or weeks ago, so you can, in future, clear your schedule to write the novel...seems disingenious. He does not appear to have been home writing anything these last six months...when he would have presumably been writing the episode and been involved in the casting decisions...which he says he wasn't.

[Ser Eric]

Is there a way of filtering the thread so only Wert's posts show? It's just bringing me down now, GRRM does precisely what the naysayers wanted and actually turned down other projects to focus on WoW and we still turn it into a bitch fest about how slow he is (despite Wert's comprehensive analysis of why he isn't actually that slow) and how it's not his top priority (if a million words and counting isn't his 'top priority' then I'd love to see what is).

We have absolutely no idea how much he's done in the last 18 months. None. The ONLY person who knows has said things are going better than aDwD, that's all we have to go on. So chin up, ay?

Quoted and highlighted for truth.

[Hodor's Dragon]

I have no idea. He doesn't appear to have very logical work habits if you ask me.

I'm pissed because he hasn't written WOW yet, too. But get real: his output of quality work is prodigious. The 5 published volumes clock in at about 5K pages of very high-quality stuff, and it took massive planning what with the incredible complexity of plot interweaving - I'm not just talking about the main events, I'm talking about how everybody in all the families knows each other; this lord was fostered with that lord, the other lord was fostered with this lord, etc., etc., and on and on and on. Not to mention all the side projects.

The first 5 volumes of ASOIAF was a holy shit-ton of work, and while I don't know you at all and could be totally wrong, I would just be willing to guess that Martin has done twice as much high-quality work in the last 20 years as you and I, combined, have done in our entire lives.

[Cas Stark]

I'm pissed because he hasn't written WOW yet, too. But get real: his output of quality work is prodigious. The 5 published volumes clock in at about 5K pages of very high-quality stuff, and it took massive planning what with the incredible complexity of plot interweaving - I'm not just talking about the main events, I'm talking about how everybody in all the families knows each other; this lord was fostered with that lord, the other lord was fostered with this lord, etc., etc., and on and on and on. Not to mention all the side projects.

The first 5 volumes of ASOIAF was a holy shit-ton of work, and while I don't know you at all and could be totally wrong, I would just be willing to guess that Martin has done twice as much high-quality work in the last 20 years as you and I, combined, have done in our entire lives.

I would say the quality of the last two books was a dramatic drop off. Which is why the long time lag for Winds is so troubling, after all of the alleged problems that caused the previous time lags were supposedly addressed...if there had been no drop in quality, then the time lag would be totally irrelevant. But, since, in my opinion Feast and Dance were very poorly structured and took almost twice as long to put together....then Winds looking like it's going to take just as long as those two lesser quality books...is kind of a red flag...that the structural issues are still going to be present.

I've never played a down of professional football either, but that doesn't mean I can't recognize that Tom Brady is better than Mark Sanchez.

[Blackfyre Gateau]

I'm pissed because he hasn't written WOW yet, too. But get real: his output of quality work is prodigious. The 5 published volumes clock in at about 5K pages of very high-quality stuff, and it took massive planning what with the incredible complexity of plot interweaving - I'm not just talking about the main events, I'm talking about how everybody in all the families knows each other; this lord was fostered with that lord, the other lord was fostered with this lord, etc., etc., and on and on and on. Not to mention all the side projects.

The first 5 volumes of ASOIAF was a holy shit-ton of work, and while I don't know you at all and could be totally wrong, I would just be willing to guess that Martin has done twice as much high-quality work in the last 20 years as you and I, combined, have done in our entire lives.

I don't think anyone would deny the depth of his commitment to 'world-building' across the series, and the first 3 books in the series barely have a chapter in them which doesn't help to both 'advance the plot at hand' and 'set the course' for where things are going to go. I also think AFFC isn't quite as dire as people make out - a lot of important, subtle things were set in place there (particularly the Old Town plot) that may well come to seriously pay off in years ahead.

But by ADWD you have to start to say that the commitment to 'complex, fully-formed world-building' has actually started to de-rail the enjoyability and readability of certain POV characters arcs in the book. It's like a PhD student's thesis, where they've done fantastic work at Master's level and in the first 2-3 years of a PhD, but now they've become invested in the 'purity' of their work that they're closing themselves off to the need to take the most straightforward pathway. GRRM even admits this himself, indirectly, when he talks about the 'Meereneese knot' of the order in which various friends and enemies would 'reach the city' - I think even ardent Dany and Barristan fans would admit they'd rather GRRM hadn't written 3 separate treatments of Quentyn's arrival and courtship of Dany, particularly as he then promptly is nigh on incinerated.

A lot of the Essos based POV character chapters in particular are pretty taxing and turgid to get through. Don't get me wrong ADWD does advance the story in interesting, unexpected ways, but it can't be denied that it's seriously over-long with a hell of a lot of 'filler' chapters and needlessly elaborate detail (e.g. the internal political dynamics of Volantis).

I'm hoping we'll get a more streamlined Winds of Winter without the likes of Dany in 'holding pattern' for 3/4 of the book before they actually 'do something' to move their arc forward.