Michael Brown's death and civil unrest in north St. Louis

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

How would the police know ahead of time that none of the protesters were armed? Missouri allows for concealed carry with a permit, and open carry is allowed but subjected to local ordinances. Why wouldn't the police expect a gathering of a couple hundred people to have included citizens who are lawfully owning and carrying firearms?

What evidence is there that's a regular occurrence at these kind of protests? When was the last protest against police action you heard about that involved alot of armed citizens?

The only one I can think of is Cliven fucking Bundy.

You act like this is an obvious potential risk at the protest and yet I know of no evidence supporting this idea.

Black people know that they are at risk if they openly wield firearms at a protest. Double standard that does not apply to white people during open carry protest. We all know this is true, whether you want to accept it or not. Just throwing that out there.....

[Shryke]

Black people know that they are at risk if they openly wield firearms at a protest. Double standard that does not apply to white people during open carry protest. We all know this is true, whether you want to accept it or not. Just throwing that out there.....

In that vein:

http://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/8/12/5994181/ferguson-is-67-percent-black-and-its-police-force-is-94-percent-white

[Fez]

Nixon press conference just started.

The Missouri Highway Patrol is taking over public safety duties in Ferguson, so I guess the Ferguson PD is also being pulled out (although possibly they will continue to operate, just under the supervision of the MHP; that isn't clear yet).

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

Nixon press conference just started.

The Missouri Highway Patrol is taking over public safety duties in Ferguson, so I guess the Ferguson PD is also being pulled out (although possibly they will continue to operate, just under the supervision of the MHP; that isn't clear yet).

He started strong, but has been a dead fish who wants off the stage for awhile now.

[Trebla]

One thing we can be assured of is that no one will be held responsible for last night. There were multiple reports that police had removed badges and name tags. The reporters arrested said that police refused to give their names or badge numbers. They didn't even receive any paperwork for the arrests but were told they'd get something in "a couple of weeks".

[Werthead]

So the complaint about the militarization of our police is not one of my big concerns. I'm more worried about the segementation of our society along economic and racial lines. I am more worried about the hidden cultural biases revealed by the ousting of the racist Lieutenant in St. Louis County just a year ago. I am more worried about the entrenched and immutable strain of racial bias in the day-to-day law enforcement, as documented by mandatory report law, of Ferguson and other cities alike. I'm also more worried about the media's narrative and the public's response to the tragedy.

What's your take on the militarized response by itself aggravating the situation?

I know that British troops, especially those deployed on peacekeeping missions, are trained heavily in how to de-escalate tensions. Sometimes something as simple as rolling up in a jeep rather than an APC and remembering not to wear sunglasses (allowing direct eye contact) could make a huge difference in how they interacted with local populations.

As said before, the military is in place to defeat an enemy whilst the police are there to serve and protect other civilians. By giving the police military equipment and training, you are de facto forcing them to start operating differently and in a different mindset which is less conducive to peaceful, civil policing.

[Frog Eater]

Terra,

I think that when the police show up looking like the are an invading force, it causes escalation. I am not excusing the "peaceful protestors" becoming looters, and when the rioters start throwing Molotov cocktails and bricks and bottles, it supports the police's feelings of need for Urban Assault gear. But if the police showed up wearing riot gear, with shields and battons it sends a message that they are prepared to face a riot. When police show up wearing combat gear, it sends a message that they are prepared to face combat, not a riot.

I am not sure who the police feel they are invading, if you saw these same pictures and were told this was happening in the middle east, it wouldn't surprise you, but St Louis is supposed to be more stable than Aleppo, Syria.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Trebla,

The great blue wall at its worst. :(

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

Feeling a bit prophetic:

1. I get what you're saying. It does have all the elements for an explosion. I just feel like if the protesters were treated with more respect than the situation would have defused. They're mad in large part because it feels like the police are working against the community, not serving and protecting them.

No one can say for sure what the correct police response should have been. I just feel like traditional riot police, armed with baton and shield, pepper spray and a few tear gas canisters with amply handcuffs would have been better. They could have SWAT on notice and close by, but not actively deployed.

Also, let's see some fucking leadership by the police chief. He could have gone to the protest and tried to talk to people in the crowd. Defuse and protect should have been their goal. Their actions did not reflect this in any way.

And I don't begrudge them for having the gear, it's how they use it. More training and education is clearly required.

2. Lol, true. But ask yourself, would you rather have the cop holding a baton or a machine gun?

3. Don't give up! Every inch you cede will be filled by the NRA.

The new person in charge said he will be on the ground talking to protesters tonight. Way to show some wisdom and class!

[Tears of Lys]

Just wanted to say I'm following this closely. What a cluster-fuck.

Missouri, you screwed the pooch pretty bad.

[Seli]

I am wary of removing the Ferguson PD from the scene. They do, however flawed they might be as alleged, know the citizens and the mood of the place better than those who don't work the streets on a daily basis. I also don't believe that all 53 of the officers of the Ferguson PD are irredeemable racists that cannot be trusted to carry out their duties. I really question the cost-benefit analysis in removing them from this on-going fiasco.

Since we are at the point that the Ferguson PD is apparently randomly arresting members of the (national) press and shooting teargas and rubber bullets directly at tv crews it seems the only smart thing to do.

Probably combined with putting at least everyone in charge on trial for utter mismanagement.

[Werthead]

A Palestinian photographer on the West Bank makes an obvious but still notable point.

[Fez]

Since we are at the point that the Ferguson PD is apparently randomly arresting members of the (national) press and shooting teargas and rubber bullets directly at tv crews it seems the only smart thing to do.

Probably combined with putting at least everyone in charge on trial for utter mismanagement.

Its unclear if that was the Ferguson PD itself, or the St. Louis County PD. It was mostly the County PD that were out in force last night. Of course, it was the Ferguson PD that shot Michael Brown and were the ones in charge over the weekend during the first protests, so they aren't exactly great looking either.

Nixon sounded like he didn't want to investigate anything except Brown's death, but I'm not sure if that's actually the case or if he just didn't know what to properly say during his press conference. He might not have a choice anyway though, since Holder said DOJ would be opening a civil rights violations investigation (although I'm also not sure if he meant about the entire situation or just about Brown's death).

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

Its unclear if that was the Ferguson PD itself, or the St. Louis County PD. It was mostly the County PD that were out in force last night. Of course, it was the Ferguson PD that shot Michael Brown and were the ones in charge over the weekend during the first protests, so they aren't exactly great looking either.

Nixon sounded like he didn't want to investigate anything except Brown's death, but I'm not sure if that's actually the case or if he just didn't know what to properly say during his press conference. He might not have a choice anyway though, since Holder said DOJ would be opening a civil rights violations investigation (although I'm also not sure if he meant about the entire situation or just about Brown's death).

He was awful once he finished reading his prepared statements. He's in a tough spot because he ran as a pro-cop tough on crime candidate. I love his hand off to the new guy in charge: "mumble, stutter, more mumbling, more stuttering, 'oh ask this guys'" and steps aside. Pathetic!

[Trebla]

Well what a difference a day can make. Last night was a wall of heavily armed police while tonight it's lightly armed police walking amongst protestors and speaking to them. Let's hope the peace holds, it takes two to tango.

[Kalbear]

Terra, you're kind of pissing me off. How is it understandable that the population of ferguson, mo should be treated by police as if they will shoot police on sight? This isn't some gangland ghetto known for violence or where police fear to go when they are called. This is a small town in the middle of America. How on earth does a protest there - regardless of level of anger by said protestors - warrant using bulletproof vests, milspec firearms and scopes?

When Iraq veterans say that they wore less gear, you might be on the wrong side of the equipment level.

[CyanidePie]

In this country:

You can form militias and aim fully automatic weapons at federal agents who show up to throw you off of land you don't own, and as long as you're white, they'll just turn around and go home.

If you're black, standing on your own property, and peacefully telling the cops dressed like futuristic cyborg soldiers to go fuck themselves, you get hit with tear gas, rubber bullets, thrown to the ground, and put in handcuffs.

Look at the progress we've made since the Civil Rights Movement.

[Fez]

An encouraging article about how things are going tonight in the Washington Post.

FERGUSON, Mo. — Suddenly, everything has changed.

The heavy riot armor, the SWAT trucks with sniper posts, the hostile glares: tonight in Ferguson they were gone.

A stunning change in tone radiated through the suburban streets where protests had turned violent each of the last four evenings following the police shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown.

But Thursday night, when more than a thousand protesters descended on the remains of QuickTrip – which was burned during riots on Sunday – they had a new leader.

The man at the front of the march, was Missouri Highway Patrol Capt. Ronald S. Johnson, a Ferguson native.

“I’m not afraid to be in this crowd,” Johnson declared to reporters.

Johnson, a towering African American man who wiped sweat from his brow as he pointed out neighborhood hangouts and restaurants he used to frequent, was put in charge of crowd control earlier in the day, replacing the St. Louis County police who had been overseeing the police response to the protests.

Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon (D) announced Thursday afternoon that Johnson would take over security, and vowed that officers would take a different approach to handling the massive crowds that have taken to Ferguson’s streets each night.

Not only did Johnson march with the protesters, but he vowed to not blockade the street, to set up a media staging center, and to ensure that residents’ rights to assemble and protest were not infringed upon. Officers working crowd control, he said, have been told they must take off their gas masks.

[DanteGabriel]

An encouraging article about how things are going tonight in the Washington Post.

Caught a similar story, also by Lowery (the Washington Post reporter who was arrested and assaulted by "law enforcement" the other night) as a series of tweets with pics and video, focusing on the new commander, state police Captain Johnson. Looks like he is doing all the right things. He is acting like a credit to his profession.

[Shryke]

In this country:

You can form militias and aim fully automatic weapons at federal agents who show up to throw you off of land you don't own, and as long as you're white, they'll just turn around and go home.

If you're black, standing on your own property, and peacefully telling the cops dressed like futuristic cyborg soldiers to go fuck themselves, you get hit with tear gas, rubber bullets, thrown to the ground, and put in handcuffs.

Look at the progress we've made since the Civil Rights Movement.

Indeed. It's like California's restrictive (compared to other parts of the US) gun laws, which were signed into law by Saint Ronnie after black people started organizing and carrying weapons to defend themselves from institutional racism.