Anath Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 This ("again") may have been an editorial slip (by me) and not from the reading itself. If she was 23 when she married Maegor, it's quite possible that this marriage wasn't her first. Westerosi nobles tend to marry their daughters at about 17 or 18. In fact, with him being so young, they might have chosen a woman with proven fertility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Still.. how was Murmison supposed to make Ceryse fertile, with Maegor in exile? I had the same thought! :huh: I mean, there's laying on of hands, and then there's.... well... :eek: :ack: :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 My guess is that Septon Murmison, an alleged miracle-worker, believed that simply his touch could quicken Ceryse's womb and produce a child (or it was believed he could do this). The way certain fertility gods and goddesses worked their wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The story of Ossifer Plumm comes to mind... Should Ceryse have gotten with child after Maegor had left, there would have been plenty of people saying it was a bastard child..So what were they expecting to happen? Either Ceryse remained without a pregnancy, or she did get pregnant and the rumours of bastardy would follow Ceryse/Maegor/their child the rest of their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 My guess is that Septon Murmison, an alleged miracle-worker, believed that simply his touch could quicken Ceryse's womb and produce a child (or it was believed he could do this). The way certain fertility gods and goddesses worked their wonders. But then it wouldn't be Maegor's child. I think it's more likely he thought prayer could heal whatever was preventing her from conceiving so that Maegor could impregnate her down the road. Maybe there was some sign of her infertility? Bleeding or lack thereof that they could use to tell that the gods had healed her. Or maybe he just thought he'd know if he was successful, or the gods would give him a sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Well, with Maegor in exile, that would have been completely useless and stupid. I'd rather assume that Aenys believed/was told that Murmison once 'healed' a woman this was, and thus decided to let him operate on her. I'd assume that Ceryse was a maiden when she married Maegor. She was the High Septon's niece, and a bride presented to Aegon I and Visenya with the intention to be a replacement for infant Rhaena, so I guess she had a perfect reputation. I don't think the High Septon would have dared to suggest that a prince marry a widow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondancer Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I mean, there's laying on of hands, and then there's.... well... :eek: :ack: :PLower abdomen, I am sure. Nothing too south. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grey Wolf Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I don't think the High Septon would have dared to suggest that a prince marry a widow... It's happened before in real life though. (E.g.-Edward the Black Prince) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Well, but I'm pretty sure that Visenya would have successfully prevented a marriage between her son and a childless widow. That would have been seen as a confirmation that she was barren, and it was certainly not in her interest to marry her son to a barren woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anath Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Well, but I'm pretty sure that Visenya would have successfully prevented a marriage between her son and a childless widow. That would have been seen as a confirmation that she was barren, and it was certainly not in her interest to marry her son to a barren woman. My point exactly. For everyone's standards at the time, Ceryse was past her best age for a first child, good social standing or not. IMO, if she was a widow of proven fertility, it becomes a little more understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 It seems that the Hightowers tend to marry late, or not at all, no? We don't know when Mace and Alerie married, and Mad Maid is still unmarried. Lynesse was also not betrothed when Jorah first met her. It could very well be that the High Septon and the Hightowers intended to offer Ceryse as bride to Aenys - which did not work out because Aegon decided on his own to marry him to Alyssa - and then jumped on the chance to arrange a royal match with Maegor, and prevent the continuation of the incest - at least for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apovsic Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 - four "false kings" arose at the death of Aegon I. The first Vulture King was amongst them. Just a quick question. I read the thread but I don't remember if it was clarified allready. So in quote above it is said that Vulture King arose after the death of Aegon. However if I recall correctly Orys fought against him (against his army). But Orys died before Aegon right? There is a list somewhere with Hands of the King and there are other hand that serve Aegon after Orys death. Did I mixed something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Orys apparently resigned as Hand somewhat early during Aegon's reign. After the Dornish War, he is Orys 'One Hand', indicating that he was caught and mutilated by the Dornishmen - the father of the Wyl Lord he later catches and kills, during the Vulture Hunt. I imagine that this either had an impact on his willingness/ability to serve as Hand, or that Aegon had to replace him because he spent years in captivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I wonder why did the Dornish not mutilate Aemon the Dragonknight as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Perhaps they did? He would not be in need of a certain manly part... Just kidding! Other thing: Do you guys think Alyssa Velaryon could have been a dragonrider? Nothing of this sort is mentioned, but she had Targaryen blood, and she mocked Maegor when he refused to choose a dragon of his own. That would be much more humiliating if Alyssa also had been allowed to choose a dragon after she was married to Aenys in 22 AC. During Aegon's time, six dragons hatched on Dragonstone, and in 37 they got two more - 'the sign', when Aenys named Maegor Hand - which makes eight in total. Quicksilver, Dreamfyre, Vermithor, and Silverwing make only four. Sheepstealer may have hatched later, but one of them could have been the Cannibal, who could later also have killed some of the hatchlings who were not claimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Meleys must be one of those old ones. She was said to be no stranger to battle. Caraxes was probably hatched before Daemon was born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 As Heir Apparent to the Iron Throne, he accompanied his father always on his royal progresses, resided with him in KL when the king was there. [it seems that the early Targaryen kings were essentially traveling kings, keeping the vast Realm together the same the early kings/emperors of th Holy Roman Empire did - on horse back!On whose back? Maegor distinguishes himself at a tourney in Riverrun in 28. He is knighted by his father with Blackfyre. Youngest knight ever - age 16.When did he lose that title? Daeron the Daring, Barristan the Bold and Jaime Lannister have been mentioned as knights at 15. And how old was Daemon Blackfyre? Did knighthood cheapen slightly over the first century of Targaryen rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Yeah, Meleys could have also been one of the very old dragons. Perhaps her first rider was Alyssa, Rhaenys could have inherited her from her great-grandmother... Jaak, Aegon could have taken dragons with him on his progresses from time to time, but essentially half the court traveled with him, so they would have used horses, not dragons. Maegor was the youngest knight ever when he was knighted. That changed later. Daemon Blackfyre was knighted at twelve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Perhaps they did? He would not be in need of a certain manly part... Just kidding! Other thing: Do you guys think Alyssa Velaryon could have been a dragonrider? Nothing of this sort is mentioned, but she had Targaryen blood, and she mocked Maegor when he refused to choose a dragon of his own. That would be much more humiliating if Alyssa also had been allowed to choose a dragon after she was married to Aenys in 22 AC. During Aegon's time, six dragons hatched on Dragonstone, and in 37 they got two more - 'the sign', when Aenys named Maegor Hand - which makes eight in total. Quicksilver, Dreamfyre, Vermithor, and Silverwing make only four. Sheepstealer may have hatched later, but one of them could have been the Cannibal, who could later also have killed some of the hatchlings who were not claimed. Perhaps the dornish were too busy laughing at Aemon, swinging in his cage.. :p Well, if Alyssa had a Targaryen mother, than her situation would have been like Laenor and Laena's (with a Targaryen mother, Rhaenys). Both Laenor and Laena got to claim a dragon. If Alyssa's situation was similar, she might indeed have had a dragon as well. If she did though, I wonder what happened to the dragon during Maegor's reign? Did Maegor fight the dragon? Did Alyssa use it to escape? I see no reason, if Alyssa had a Targaryen mother, that she would have gotten to claim a dragon only after marrying Aenys. Laena had claimed her dragon as a young age as well, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 My point was that, if Alyssa was not allowed to claim a dragon because she was not of the main branch of House Targaryen (it seems that at this time the children of the house did not yet get eggs in their cradles), Aegon may have decided to grant her the right to claim a dragon when she was married to his heir, Aenys. She would be the future queen, and since Aegon's sister-wives were also dragonriders, making Alyssa also a dragonrider would have been a smart thing politically, to establish continuity. If she had a dragon, it could have been Meleys, or another, as of yet unknown dragon. The fact that the reading did not mention a dragon for her does not have to mean that she did have one - or eventually got one. It was also not mentioned how and when Rhaena got Dreamfyre, or why Prince Aegon (apparently) did not have a dragon of his own - we know that he died on Quicksilver later on, but he could only claim Aenys' dragon after his father's death. [it would be possible, though, that Aegon had an original hatchling who died/was killed, leading to him claiming Quicksilver later on.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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