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Lady Gwynhyfvar

(Spoilers) Sons of the Dragon Reading at LonCon Today

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I thought it was already confirmed from a Conquest reading that Orys was the first Hand. My guess is that he was pissed/resigned after he los his hand. More speculation on that later.

Osmund Strong was Alyn Stokeworth's predecessor as Hand. But we don't know if there was another Hand in between Orys and Osmund.

Oh, and for the record: GRRM read from Fire and Blood, not the Worldbook. A lot of the details from the reading won't be in the Worldbook.

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Oh, and for the record: GRRM read from Fire and Blood, not the Worldbook. A lot of the details from the reading won't be in the Worldbook.

Natural confusion caused by the title of the thread, which I opened in real time as info was still coming in. I did point out that this isn't necessarily Worldbook info in a later post, but I'll amend title now for clarity ;)

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Any speculation on how "sorcerer princes" can exist in a Freehold?

"Princes" could be a title of power, not necessarily that they were actually princes, sons of kings.

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Lord Varys and Arataniello: You guys are awesome. Very much appreciated :bowdown:

By the by, does anyone else here think that the manner of Aegon's death was loosely inspired by Vito Corleone's death in The Godfather?

The Valyrian are Sicilian? Makes sense.

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Orys was a Lord Paramount of a tumultuous region so maybe he stepped down as Hand after the Conquest to consolidate power. He could have come back after the Stormlands were set to rights.


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Wow, great notes Varys.



First set of observations/questions:


- a Strong as Hand is really interesting. Their sigil is three bars that match the color of the Trident. Many including myself assumed House Strong was raised to Harrenhal, and took that sigil at that time, having only been a hedge house, or not a landed house at all prior to this. So it appears House Strong existed before they were raised to Lordship of Harrenhal, and were important enough to have one of theirs chosen as Hand. Osmund was a Lord before being Hand? Do we know this for sure?



- Prince Baelon, nice catch, that could be it re the inspiration for Aegon's death scene. Later we'll find out Aegon had an orange peel in his mouth while telling the stories...



- Alyssa taunting Maegor about being too cowardly to tame a dragon. This would be a glimpse into the rivalry between the two factions, and that some in Aenys' court hated Maegor. The opposite seemed likely already, given Maegor's personality.



- on the subject of Aegon having no daughters, and that situation in general. The combination of "Rhaenys took someone else to bed to bear Aenys" possibility combined with the oddity of Visenya's pregnancy amidst rumors of barrenness and sorcery should lead us to consider that AEGON HIMSELF may have been infertile. Women are always getting blamed for being barren when it is just as likely it is the man. WIthout the rumors of Rhaenys sleeping around, this theory couldn't exist, because Aegon obviously showed himself capable of fathering children (Aenys, daughters). This completely changes that picture as Aenys is in doubt (though perhaps only a little) and there are no daughters.



It is possible Aegon married Rhaenys in part because he had been trying to have kids with Visenya for quite a while without success.


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Thank you guys for the notes. I'm really happy that Aenys wasn't described as a soft-soft king. It seems that he was a decent warrior but had more artistic pursuits (singing, learning...). I like him even more now


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MAJOR QUESTION: The Bubonicon reading said that Orys Baratheon was killed fighting the rebellion in the Vale of Arryn, not the new Vulture King in Dorne. Then Maegor flew on Balerion to the Vale and avenged him.

Was this a mistake by the previous reading or has it been altered now?

Can we get total confirmation that Orys in the version at LonCon died putting down the Vulture King? How did he die? In combat? It sounds like he just died of old age on his return or something.

The original SotD reading has Orys dying at Harrenhal, (likely vs. Harren the Red), not in the Vale.

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- on the subject of Aegon having no daughters, and that situation in general. The combination of "Rhaenys took someone else to bed to bear Aenys" possibility combined with the oddity of Visenya's pregnancy amidst rumors of barrenness and sorcery should lead us to consider that AEGON HIMSELF may have been infertile. Women are always getting blamed for being barren when it is just as likely it is the man. WIthout the rumors of Rhaenys sleeping around, this theory couldn't exist, because Aegon obviously showed himself capable of fathering children (Aenys, daughters). This completely changes that picture as Aenys is in doubt (though perhaps only a little) and there are no daughters.

It is possible Aegon married Rhaenys in part because he had been trying to have kids with Visenya for quite a while without success.

There is also the matter of both of them drinking moon tea/any other contraceptive because they were more likely warriors (Visenya) or because they had sex with other men (Rhaenys). I kinda had the impression that neither of them was the "maternal" kind. Aegon was kind stuck in between, but at the end, they simply had to have children to continue the blood and line.

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Sooooo Braavos' religious tolerance comes from Valyria? That's cool. But I still want to learn about Valyrian gods and goddesses.



Alyssa seems like a bitter woman. I like her :3



As the information is from Fire and Blood and it's not going to be published for decades, should we add this information to wikia?



Oh and I bet Visenya pulled a Mother Mary and made Maegor herself lol



I love the theory about Aegon being the barren one lol


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Another update in my original post.

The Strongs are a very old First Men house from the Riverlands, if I'm not mistaken.

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This stuff is awesome. Thanks guys, can't wait to read everything else you have.


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Another update in my original post.

The Strongs are a very old First Men house from the Riverlands, if I'm not mistaken.

That makes a lot of sense given the naming convention. GRRM said the names that represent simple things or places tend to be First Men houses. Gardener, Peat, Branch, Blackwood, Mudd, Fisher etc. "Strong" certainly fits that.

Most if not all the Strongs we've seen are large men.

Lyonel was big, Harwin was the strongest in the realm, Larys was clubfooted but that doesn't mean he wasn't big (we just don't know). Ser Lucamore the Lusty may not have been big, but it's likely enough that he was, if not Strong besides, given that he was a Kingsguard.

I had a hard time figuring out when Ser Lucamore lived, as I was trying to place it during the Strongs time at Harrenhal, but now it seems more likely Ser Lucamore existed before the Strongs got Harrenhal.

Then there is Ser Robert, obviously not related, hah. But as huge as they come.

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Sooooo Braavos' religious tolerance comes from Valyria? That's cool. But I still want to learn about Valyrian gods and goddesses.

Alyssa seems like a bitter woman. I like her :3

As the information is from Fire and Blood and it's not going to be published for decades, should we add this information to wikia?

Oh and I bet Visenya pulled a Mother Mary and made Maegor herself lol

I love the theory about Aegon being the barren one lol

I think we should wait until the notes have been placed on westeros.org, so we have somewhere to properly link to on the wiki.

Seeing as information from previous Fire and Blood readings already is on the wiki, this should be allowed on there as well, as soon as we can properly link somewhere.

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Lord Varys,

"Shortly thereafter hatched two dragons on

Dragonstone, which is considered a sign."

Portends well for Maegor as the hand?

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