Did this latest nude pics scandal enrage and disturb you too?

[Stannisaurus2]

Well because you are basically saying they were ignorant to feel like their stuff would be safe there and to me that reads as "they deserved it".

Alright, I guess I don't see the connection you are making between the bold and the underlined part.

I can certainly see how, depending on context and the way it is phrased, the underlined might be a possible implication of the bold but I disagree on the underlined being an intrinsic part of the meaning of the bold.

There's a different between blaming a victim and pointing out that people should exercise caution. Ideally we could all live with our doors unlocked, but there are shitty people in the world who will do shitty things.

Letting young people know not to take any pictures they wouldn't want becoming public on a smart phone isn't outrageous. It's common sense. Hopefully this will serve as a wakeup up call that data in the cloud can be accessed and while you should be safe storing private pictures on your personal phone, the reality is that they aren't safe there.

And I do empathize with the victims. It sucks for this to happen to them. Hopefully they catch these hackers, and hopefully some better technology is developed to keep this from happening.

Fully agree. In fact I think it is harmful to expand the definition of "victim-blaming" so much that it includes common sense warnings or observations.

[sperry]

No, I just don't see the point in ''well i don't care!'' ...if you don't care, why are you here. I'm sorry that I DO care and people making me feel like it's petty or trivial and I'm acting irrational are not appreciated.

Well, yeah, because someone who takes a nude photo for a partner of a long distance relationship shouldn't ever have to carry aroud the anxiety that it's possible some sick person might share that photo around one day.

I honestly thought in this scenario people would be way more understanding, guess I was wrong and that upsets me.

Are we even 100% certain all these photos were on whatever that cloud thing is? And even if they were, someone hacking is making an aggressive decision to do this, whereas someone whose pictures are getting leaked is in a passive victim situation and yet let's all just pat the passive person on the head and tell them they should have known someone would inevitably take an aggressive position and attack them.

Basically there's a lot of ''I don't care!'' in this thread which is FINE if you weren't spending time trying to make others feel bad FOR caring, then there's dumb jokes that it's okay because the celebrities are hot and then there's the ''well they shouldn't have done it in the first place'' bullshit. Disappointing. Very disappointing.

That's the point, though. People shouldn't have to worry about this. But the reality is that there are shitty people out there who will do this kind of thing. And it's not just celebrities that this can happen to. It happens all the time to average teenagers, with potentially much more devastating consequences.

After this fiasco, with the publicity it's getting, I hope people are more careful until the technology exists to safely protect stuff like this from happening.

[Recovering forum addict]

Well, yeah, because someone who takes a nude photo for a partner of a long distance relationship shouldn't ever have to carry aroud the anxiety that it's possible some sick person might share that photo around one day.

No, they shouldn't have to. But that's the way it is. Virtually everything on the internet is militarised, sabotaged, compromised or leaking like a sieve, and the security practices of most users don't help. Accusing someone who says that you shouldn't put stuff there and expect it to stay private of somehow saying that the situation is OK is irrational and insulting.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Keep seeing a lot of "People shouldn't HAVE to be more careful, it's the HACKER that's wrong!" type comments. Yeah, in a perfect world they wouldn't have to be more careful. But we don't live in a perfect world. There will always be people that will fuck with other people. In a situation like this there's nothing these celebs can do but be more cautious with this stuff.

You might as well be saying "BAD THINGS SHOULDN'T HAPPEN EVER"

I kinda had this discussion few months ago with someone from the "liberal" side (so to speak). Of course, she brought terms like "culture rape" and "victim blaming" into the table and never got what I was trying to say.

What I said is pretty much what you said, we can't use "should" because we're not living in the world when bad things dont' happen. For example, I live in a city with high risk zones. If I go out alone, after dark, I might get hurt badly. My own neighbourhood is getting a bit dangerous, so, I've toned down my late night activities (I buy groceries at 10pm, for instance). So, what I said is "I wouldn't let my daughter to go dressed in certain ways to certain places because she could get hurt". Somehow, and I can see how, that was taken as if I was saying that if my daughter get raped, it's "her" fault. It's definitely not. Again, she SHOULD be able to go everywhere in the way she likes, but she CANNOT. It's not a fight she should be having and I won't make her -or myself- a martyr of the cause because we're talking of something quite dangerous here. In this case, I choose safe than sorry: precaution never killed anybody, quite the other way around.

[karaddin]

I love how in the rush to point out how inevitable this is, the criminal is always absolved of agency. They aren't a fucking force of nature, they are a human being making the choice to invade someone elses privacy and steal something that doesn't belong to them. THAT is where the focus of blame should be, not on the victim. You might try to say "well no one disagrees with that, it wouldn't be much of a discussion" then great! Everyone agrees the criminal is in the wrong and shouldn't be prosecuted, nothing more needs to be said about blame.

How about on the "these photos have been stolen, the person in them did not consent to you seeing their body" side of things? Oh what's that? There are disgusting assholes in this thread going to view those photos anyway. If we can't agree they are disgusting then you can have some conversation there instead of blaming the victim. I am going to judge everyone who defends viewing the photos as an asshole though, it's not something I feel you can have a legitimate opinion on the other side of. But I'm a judgemental asshole myself so that doesn't mean you can't have a conversation on that.

[Theda Baratheon]

I really don't think it's fair to be repeatedly accused of being irrational because I'm disgusted we live in a world where people's privacy means less than the ~wise~ wagging finger and ~stern~ talking to of ''oh well you shouldn't have done it and should have expected to have happened"

this sort of shit should be a rare occurrence, not something we've all decided is now inevitably going to happen if people share intimate photos with their significant others or people they're dating.

This is NOT an inevitable occurrence, this is a horrible person actively choosing to hurt someone and you know what, fuck sarcasm, I am NOT sorry for being angry that this person is mostly getting ignored so we can focus on the actions of the people they've hurt instead.

[sperry]

I love how in the rush to point out how inevitable this is, the criminal is always absolved of agency. They aren't a fucking force of nature, they are a human being making the choice to invade someone elses privacy and steal something that doesn't belong to them. THAT is where the focus of blame should be, not on the victim. You might try to say "well no one disagrees with that, it wouldn't be much of a discussion" then great! Everyone agrees the criminal is in the wrong and shouldn't be prosecuted, nothing more needs to be said about blame.

It doesn't absolve them of agency at all. The perpetrator should be hunted, found, and convicted. But the deterrent effect of laws and punishment is limited, so people should take precautions so as not to have bad things happen to them.

[karaddin]

How are people not being understanding? Are we only fucking understanding if we wholeheartedly ignore the fact that the victims actions contributed to result? I'm sorry, but that's bullshit.

You label them as ''passive'', no they're not fucking passive. Passive is someone who sits at home and gets burgled. Active is someone who goes out into the street in a dangerous area and gets mugged. Aggressive is the mugger. They're not doing anything they shouldn't be doing, it's more than their right to walk along, or take a nude; but shit happens to them all the same because that's the way of the world.

If my friend got beat up walking along somewhere dodgy, first I'd ask if he/she were okay. Then I'd ask them what the fuck they were walking along there for.

People take risks, and when they're unnecessary risk then yes, they are taking an active role. That doesn't mean they deserve the bad shit that happens to them. But it's self-evident that it wouldn't have happened if they hadn't taken that risk.

And please don't say it's focussing blame on the victim to be having this argument, the only reason we're actually focussing on them now is because some people refuse to accept that the victims are in any way, however small, partially responsible for what happened. That's just illogical.

ETA: Apologies for liberal usage of ''fuck''

Thanks, the insistence on saying "we aren't blaming the victims" was almost starting to sound true.

In your idiotic fucking analogy they are sitting at home and get burgled. They aren't posting the photos on anywhere risky, they had it stored on their own physical device which was backed up to the cloud. As far as I've read they didn't even know this backup had happened in some cases, but that's irrelevant, the device and the cloud storage are both their property, not fucking wandering off down a dark alley at night.

I guess we know how you would feel about blame for a woman getting raped after walking down the street at night...

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Accusing someone who says that you shouldn't put stuff there and expect it to stay private of somehow saying that the situation is OK is irrational and insulting.

Okay, maybe not, but expected? It does read that way at least a little. "These people have just had their trust and/or privacy violated! Well, they should have known better." is insensitive and not really that helpful as an immediate reaction.

Having a discussion of keeping your passwords and PINs safe as general life tips is fine, just as is a discussion of what "the cloud" is and isn't. Telling someone who's just been cracked that well, this is why they say to not use unencrypted Wi-Fi networks does nothing except maybe make them feel even shittier. Especially if you read their posted emails* out of a sense of curiosity while tut-tutting them.

*I'm thinking of DefCon or some of the other security gatherings where (for example) anyone who uses the unsecured Wi-Fi provided gets their passwords & other info posted for anyone to read. http://www.wallofsheep.com/pages/press The difference here is that attendees *know* that this can happen. I think that most people will trust their service providers to keep their information safe. Intimate partners, too, since there's a new theory going around that it wasn't the cloud service at all, but a nudie trading ring joined by some of these women's partners.

[Cold Crashing Waves]

I love how in the rush to point out how inevitable this is, the criminal is always absolved of agency. They aren't a fucking force of nature, they are a human being making the choice to invade someone elses privacy and steal something that doesn't belong to them. THAT is where the focus of blame should be, not on the victim. You might try to say "well no one disagrees with that, it wouldn't be much of a discussion" then great! Everyone agrees the criminal is in the wrong and shouldn't be prosecuted, nothing more needs to be said about blame.

How about on the "these photos have been stolen, the person in them did not consent to you seeing their body" side of things? Oh what's that? There are disgusting assholes in this thread going to view those photos anyway. If we can't agree they are disgusting then you can have some conversation there instead of blaming the victim. I am going to judge everyone who defends viewing the photos as an asshole though, it's not something I feel you can have a legitimate opinion on the other side of. But I'm a judgemental asshole myself so that doesn't mean you can't have a conversation on that.

For fuck's sake, way to miss the point.

[Alex.]

This whole thing is fucking grim and anyone who trys to justify this in anyway or at all align themselves with the bad danger who stole and leaked them needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

Both the person who leaked them and anyone who tries to excuse them is a complete and total fucking disgrace. No ifs or buts. Total nobheads.

[Veltigar]

People please, lets remain civil shall we.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Remember those times when Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan were hacked once and again?

I wonder how many tries did it take for them to realise they were the stupid ones there.

[lessthanluke]

This whole thing is fucking grim and anyone who trys to justify this in anyway or at all align themselves with the bad danger who stole and leaked them needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

Both the person who leaked them and anyone who tries to excuse them is a complete and total fucking disgrace. No ifs or buts. Total nobheads.

Alex as always nails it.

[Veltigar]

I have got to ask, since I'm still quite a young person, why do people constantly bash feminists online? It's like every other thread or article I walk into, even if they are totally unrelated to women, has a rant against feminism in it... I swear I see less hate for IS online than for feminists.

EDIT: Did I miss a memo? Or a fatwa? Or did Pope Francis release an encyclical I have yet to hear off?

[Theda Baratheon]

This whole thing is fucking grim and anyone who trys to justify this in anyway or at all align themselves with the bad danger who stole and leaked them needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

Both the person who leaked them and anyone who tries to excuse them is a complete and total fucking disgrace. No ifs or buts. Total nobheads.

totally.

For fuck's sake, way to miss the point.

Again. If you don't care as you've repeatedly made clear, then why are you here making people who do care feel shitty?

How are people not being understanding? Are we only fucking understanding if we wholeheartedly ignore the fact that the victims actions contributed to result? I'm sorry, but that's bullshit.

You label them as ''passive'', no they're not fucking passive. Passive is someone who sits at home and gets burgled. Active is someone who goes out into the street in a dangerous area and gets mugged. Aggressive is the mugger. They're not doing anything they shouldn't be doing, it's more than their right to walk along, or take a nude; but shit happens to them all the same because that's the way of the world.

If my friend got beat up walking along somewhere dodgy, first I'd ask if he/she were okay. Then I'd ask them what the fuck they were walking along there for.

People take risks, and when they're unnecessary risk then yes, they are taking an active role. That doesn't mean they deserve the bad shit that happens to them. But it's self-evident that it wouldn't have happened if they hadn't taken that risk.

And please don't say it's focussing blame on the victim to be having this argument, the only reason we're actually focussing on them now is because some people refuse to accept that the victims are in any way, however small, partially responsible for what happened. That's just illogical.

ETA: Apologies for liberal usage of ''fuck''

Do you think I'm an idiot? Do you honestly think that I don't understand if there was no picture, if the picture did not exist, that there would be no sharing of it, because there'd be no picture to share? What the hell are you even trying to prove here? That i'm an illogical idiot? (Ive gotten way, way fucking tired of how many times THAT has been fired to me in this thread)

the fucking point is that someone, an actual person and not some sort of malevolent force decided to actively look for photos and share them and that attitudes like the ones in this thread are exactly why these images are going to be staying online in some form or another because people don't give two fucks about someone's privacy being violated because they shouldn't have dared to have a lapse in judgement where they forget that there are horrible people in this world that might harm them in the future with said image. Are we all really 100% clear headed and assessing possible danger all the time?

Great, more taking the exact opposite out of what I said.

Second paragraph, you miss the point completely. No, their devices aren't safe. That's the fucking point. That's why I've specifically pointed out the exception of those people who took the photos years and years ago - 3 times now.

Fucking hell. So you think that I would say, after a woman was raped walking down a dingy street ''It was her fault''? Because if that's the case, then yet again you have missed the point.

what point??? because if me and kara have come to the same conclusion about your post then it's you that isn't making yourself clear here.

That's what you get for arguing with feminists. They willfully refuse to understand anything resembling personal accountability. That's how shit works around here. It's your own fault, you should have knows what sort of environment this board is.

By the fucking RAGE OF ACHILLES this thread has turned fucking VILE.

Because ''feminists'' are the bad thing about this situation!! HAH.

[karaddin]

Yup us feminists are all such irrational women.

Leap - a house with windows isn't really that secure. It's not hard to break into, we just have a system of rules and punishment that strongly deter breaking into someones house and stealing their shit. Those systems are why a house is secure and we should have the same system around data.

I have got to ask, since I'm still quite a young person, why do people constantly bash feminists online? It's like every other thread or article I walk into, even if they are totally unrelated to women, has a rant against feminism in it... I swear I see less hate for IS online than for feminists.

It's not as inane as the hate of "Social Justice Warriors" though, who are fast taking over from feminists as the internets most hated group. Because clearly social justice is bad and we should hate everyone fighting for it. At least feminism you can delude yourself into it being a bad thing with straw men and sexism.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

It's your own fault, you should have knows what sort of environment this board is.

I guess at least you're consistent?

[Theda Baratheon]

I have got to ask, since I'm still quite a young person, why do people constantly bash feminists online? It's like every other thread or article I walk into, even if they are totally unrelated to women, has a rant against feminism in it... I swear I see less hate for IS online than for feminists.

Because apparently anger is not an acceptable emotion for women in particular to have, and because feminists are often highlighting things certain people just don't want to hear. It troubles me too, that in a topic like this, I have been repeatedly targeted for my emotions on the subject and that anti-feminism spew up there is just the cherry on the cake of festering shit that is this thread.

[Relic]

I have got to ask, since I'm still quite a young person, why do people constantly bash feminists online? It's like every other thread or article I walk into, even if they are totally unrelated to women, has a rant against feminism in it... I swear I see less hate for IS online than for feminists.

Glib answer - because they can't get laid.

Serious answer - Mom issues. Dad issues. Issues in general.