Would you like a really grim ending

[No Song so Sweet]

I would not mind an ending where the supernatural forces (Dragons and Others) become the main instruments in restoring moral order and 90% of the characters meet a tragic conclusion - though I think that modern readers might find that more bitter than sweet. Still, it is more in line with classic tragedy and would lead to catharsis.

To see if we are on the same page, some modern examples I can think of with endings that are tragic and lead to catharsis - the film Se7en and the film Into the Wild (based on the real life travels of Chris McCandless). These have distinctly different feelings induced by their ending than something like Harry Potter, or the original Star Wars trilogy.

Take Arya as a a character example from ASoIaF - he who lives by the sword must die by it. Arya should end up being killed in a fight, for her conclusion to create catharsis and probably when she is just beginning to realize that she has chosen the wrong path.

I agree completely. Nice examples btw.

That's the ending that i would expect from what we have read in the books so far.

On a seperate point, the books have a realistic but at the same time epic feel, with no actual protagonists, ranging from Westeros to Essos. I think from the Winds of Winter we will see the fate of the whole world unfold, or at least Westeros and the coast of Essos. It will be big picture, not focused on one character, but also each individual character's fate will also be decided.

[Lord of Nutella]

I would not like a grim ending. I like happy endings. And why the hell not? The books created some characters that i really grew to like, so i will be glad if there is a happy ending for them, as long as it makes sense. I do not care about all this "meh happy endings are boring and predictable" - stuff.

Now GRRM told us there would be a "bittersweet" ending. I guess this means that there will be a kind of happy ending, but some of our beloved characters have to die in the progress. And i am fine with that.

[naseridrl]

Westeros doesn't seem to me like a place where happy endings are really possible on a big scale. I think some people will have happy endings in a small way but overall they'll be so much death and destruction that no matter who ''wins'' the rebuilding and fixing will take generations and it'll be by no mean easy. I also wouldn't be surprised if there is huge social change and problems that come from that will last for a long time. Whoever sits on that stupid throne is going to have anarchy to deal wit for a long time. Maybe it'll be bittersweet that having fought over and for the throne for so long whoever gets it realises it no longer means anything because the realm is in chaos.

[I'm the Party Pooper]

I would not like a grim ending. I like happy endings. And why the hell not? The books created some characters that i really grew to like, so i will be glad if there is a happy ending for them, as long as it makes sense. I do not care about all this "meh happy endings are boring and predictable" - stuff.

Now GRRM told us there would be a "bittersweet" ending. I guess this means that there will be a kind of happy ending, but some of our beloved characters have to die in the progress. And i am fine with that.

You won't be disappointed.. grrm won't give us a fairy tale or lotr like happy ending, but it will definitively be an happy ending.. only that it will be realistic, thus a bit bitter.. cause you know, things can always be better when they are not idealised.

[Aerys Blackfyre]

Well, The War of the Roses ended with the Lancasters (south) sitting the throne in the form of Henry VII who united the warring houses by marrying Elizabeth of York (north).

So I expect something along those lines.

This means both Dany and Jon will die.

It also probably means Tyrion and Sansa end up as King and Queen.

that's a good point!

[Primalsplit]

As far as I'm concerned, cersei will probably die because of valonqar prophecy. So that already adds the sweet element.

Besides, is everyone making assumptions on lotr ending on account of the movies? The book ending had kind of a small bittersweet feeling to it to be honest, more than the books. With all the magical races and characters leaving the middle earth, it was like telling to the reader "Chap chap! The story is finished. No more elves, wizards, rings, orcs, adventures. All will become your memory now.". It even mentions the death of Aragorn and Arwen in the end. It can be described as bittersweet.

[Frances Bean Corbray]

My custom title used to be "Wants The Others To Win" so yeah, probably

:)

[Steelborn]

Besides, is everyone making assumptions on lotr ending on account of the movies? The book ending had kind of a small bittersweet feeling to it to be honest, more than the books. With all the magical races and characters leaving the middle earth, it was like telling to the reader "Chap chap! The story is finished. No more elves, wizards, rings, orcs, adventures. All will become your memory now.". It even mentions the death of Aragorn and Arwen in the end. It can be described as bittersweet.

I think that's the ending Martin is planning. Victory but too many things lost to be the same again.

[Nymeria Darkstar]

The way I see it may disappoint most readers, however... here's what I think.

I've always liked apocalyptic endings. But in this case I see it differently. And I don't think Martin would write such ending, so...

Personally, I was never a fan of Daenerys. I would prefer Stannis as a king and some Stark as a King of the North. But it doesn't matter what I prefer.

I have a list of predictions, that are not based on any facts or theories from the books, nor on my preferences, but on feelings and intuition :D only:

1. Daenerys will never really reach Westeros.

2. I see the Iron throne destroyed.

3. Theon will do something really good and then probably die quickly and calmly.

4. I see destruction everywhere on Westeros, idk if it's caused by the WW.

5. Bran is going to become super powerful like a god, and then sacrifice himself for something, idk, I just see him dead or almost dead in the end. Don't judge me. I don't like it either, he is my fav character.

6. Those who have survived have to start from tha scratch. I think Rickon will be the lord of Winterfell, or king or whatever.

7. Cersei is very dead.

8. "Aegon" too.

9. I think Sansa is going to become pretty powerful.

10. LF dies. So does Melisandre.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts and I'd be very surprised if I have actually guessed anything.

[Frances Bean Corbray]

5. Bran is going to become super powerful like a god, and then sacrifice himself for something, idk, I just see him dead or almost dead in the end. Don't judge me. I don't like it either, he is my fav character.

Atlas Holding Up The World, perhaps.

He will not die, but shouldering the burden he'll have to bear as The Greenseer will be such that he will have to sacrifice any semblance of normal existence, never getting to enjoy much of anything that we would take for granted in what we call life (treebound, etc.).

But he will be alive. And powerful. And heroic.

Like, humanity withstanding/surviving the others enough to have a chance to endure and rebuild and have a future, will owe Bran a huge debt for getting that chance.

[First of the First Men]

I think that scene in the show where Dany sees the IT room abandoned and full of snow, the roof destroyed and nobody there was foreshadowing. I loved the silence especially.

Some people will survive, among them the occasional POV. Bran has the best chances here. At the end of ADOS winter will come to an end, the Others will be defeated, but all that will be left of the Seven Kingdoms will be small groups fighting for survival. They will have to start from scratch.

I like that kind of ending. The actual impact it will have will very much depend on the execution, but I trust George on this one.

[BrienneofQarth]

I think that scene in the show where Dany sees the IT room abandoned and full of snow, the roof destroyed and nobody there was foreshadowing. I loved the silence especially.

I loved that scene in the show. I can't remember it occurring in the books -- or does it? I have always wondered if that scene from the show was in some way foreshadowing what the ultimate end of Asoiaf would be like.

[ummester]

I'll be reading Dany's Warlock tower sections for the first time, shortly - I'm looking forward to seeing if that same vision is there.

Re LotRs - wouldn't it feel too samey if ASoIaF ended in a similar way, with all the magic in the world making way for the rise of humans? Also, see next point,

Re ending like the historic War of the Roses, why bother including magical elements in the ASoIaF tale?

The magic has been growing in this saga, a slow build up, kind of thing, framed by the prologue in book 1 and 1st scene in the show. It makes more narrative sense to me that the build up is for something climatic, not something that is either taken away at end or has nothing to do with the resolution.

[HexMachina]

LotR has a sweet ending - the film has like 5 of them, all sweet :D

The ending of Lord of the Rings is not sweet.

[ummester]

So what would you call a sweet ending HelenaAndTheMachine? And what would you call a bitter ending?

LotRs felt sweet to me, all nicely reconciled, a couple of boo hoo moments when some things fade away - but in a sweet way, like when an old person who is sick passes away but you get to give them a cuddle first.

[HexMachina]

So what would you call a sweet ending HelenaAndTheMachine? And what would you call a bitter ending?

LotRs felt sweet to me, all nicely reconciled, a couple of boo hoo moments when some things fade away - but in a sweet way, like when an old person who is sick passes away but you get to give them a cuddle first.

At the end of the Lord of the Rings, Frodo is.sufferring PTSD, and because of this he leaves his home and everyone he loves, to eventually die beyond the Sea. Which is hardly happy.

We also see that ultimately, evil triumphed over good - Frodo failed in his Quest to destroy the Ring,.being overcome by its power and refusing to destroy it. Only the greed and corruption of Gollum eventually allows the Ring to be destroyed. This is not really a happy message being.put across.

We also having the fading of all that was once great and.good.in the world - Sauron.is defeated yes, but all of the great works that he destroyed will never be restored again, as the Elves flee across the sea. Middle Earth is thus a shadow of its former self, and the scars Sauron.has left don't truly heal.

There is also Arwen and Aragorn's marriage too. Arwen forsakes her father and.chooses a mortal life to be with Aragorn. Yet she lingers in the world.after him, and it is implied that she dies from her grief, alone.in the woods of Lothlorien.

There is other stuff too, but its late and I don't really have time to go into it

[Marcus Agrippa]

I just want an ending that makes sense.

[The Mother of The Others]

I would not like a grim ending. I like happy endings.

So what's the deal with Nutella? Has it been approved only for the munchies or is it also okay for people who aren't high? Because I kind of get the impression that if I tried it sober I wouldn't quite understand what all the hullaballoo was about.

Also, if the series has a grim ending, that'd saddle it with the same problem that haunts many lesbian scenes: by their very nature, lesbian scenes never really end---they simply STOP. Think about it. Lesbians, if left to their own devices, could go on all day. Their duration isn't limited by physiology, generally speaking, in the same way that boy/girl scenes are. In most cases, it's only the director yelling "Cut!" that tells the lesbians it's time to quit and go home. Otherwise, there's no real moment of finality to what they're doing, and they could be tempted to just keep going and going past every potential stopping point, like when a snowball starts rolling downhill. I don't want ASOIAF to just end arbitrarily on a bitter note, because that'd be just one more bitter note in a symphony of bitter notes. In other words, it wouldn't really be an ending, it'd just be the point at which the characters stopped. Just an artificially imposed ending so the lighting crew could call it a wrap and clock out. But it'd leave us unfulfilled. I want something that feels like a genuine ending point, not just the last page. To get that kind of ending, the war of umpteen kings needs to reach a settlement, like when that snowball-turned-avalanche finally stops rolling and comes to rest in a secure location where you can tell it's going to stay for a while. Maybe not forever. But at least I want to know that war won't break out again tomorrow, or as soon as I close the book and turn my back. There needs to be a sense of order restored, a clear end to the era of chaos, so that the Maester who's recording these events can put a final punctuation on it and say "So ended the war of the 14 kings." (I'd like for the maesters to get wiped out as part of the ending, though, so somebody else in westeros would have to write all this stuff down. Sam maybe.)

[Secto]

Tyrion as lord of casterly Rock is all grim I want. Oh and Jaime as Lord Commander could be nice well hell gotta share witj Barristan...Dany and Stannis can share the throne. She gets weekdays he weekends and holidays.

So many charachters... some will have a sweet some a bitter ending

[ummester]

Mother of Others, lesbians eventually get raw :D Though I agree with the sentiment, the tale of ASoIaF shouldn't be cut off at a nasty point - it should resolve.

The question is what kind of resolution. Using the person dying analogy, I would liken the endings to this.

Sweet - reconcile positively with the dying person and see them pass in peace.

Bitter - have ill will towards the dying person as they pass.

Grim - dying person passes in a very painful manner.

Bittersweet would then be some reconciliation and some ill will when the person passes. ASoIaF could end like that, with different character endings - but I don't think that would really leave a lasting impression. There would be squabbling about whether it's fair or not that character X gets a happy ending and character Y gets a sad ending, though it still does not resolve the world in any meaningful way.

Character equals plot but with an ensemble cast no character can be the whole plot and no single character should resolve the plot. Something like the throne being destroyed, or the monarchy being dissolved, does resolve the world. Putting any character on the throne at the end just leaves it open for another rebellion in the future.

This is why I agree with No Song So Sweet that global tragedy is the best way to end an epic tale in line with the 'bittersweet' promise.