Dany can Cripple the Slave Trade completely before she leaves Meereen.

[Veltigar]

And you pull that Lannisport number out of your ass, so your speculation has little to no worth. The only thing we know is that Lannisport is bigger than White Harbour and Gull Town and much smaller than Oldtown and KL. Based on that, I'd put Lannisport population much closer to a 100 000 than 300 000. But it basically boils down to personal opinion right now.

EDIT: and we don't know how big the percentage of slaves is. Nor do we know how any more people will die before they can even start to travel. I'm sure the dieing isn't done yet.

[Mrs_Darcy]

It happened in the United States over the course of about 3 years.

Obviously the United States is a different case - but it's not as different as you might think on first blush. One thing that makes Westeros like the United States but unlike any medieval society in our history is that it has a strong central continent-wide government. This gives Westeros the ability to field very strong military expeditions: there are a good 300,000 or so troopers running around fighting for various factions in the WO5K, and all those troops would serve the Iron Throne if the government is re-unified.

However, there is no central continent-wide government in Essos. If the monarch of Westeros is strongly dedicated to wiping out the slave trade in Essos, there's a fairly simple military solution. If the monarch of Westeros also has a significant presence in Essos - e.g.,a few cities in Slaver's Bay, possibly a decent-sized khalasar - the military solution becomes much simpler.

I'm not saying wiping out slavery is easy, or that it will happen, but I am saying that it's not impossible and shouldn't be ruled out or shrugged off.

But declaring slavery illegal was more an act on the demand than on the supply side. The point many posters make is that as long as Quarth, Volatnis, Myr, Lys, Norvos and some people in Pentos demand slaves, there is someone willing to supply them with. I mean we already see in AFFC, that Euron enters the slave trade, because prices have risen.

[nastydream]

I doubt she can end slavery in all of the continent but when/if she conquers/liberates Volantis then a huge chunk of it will be ended.

Also great post Suzanna :)

well I dont have all the answers, just speculating. i know that Barristan and Dany have a talk about food stores, and he says, something like 'we may have to withstand a siege for a year'. So obviously Meereen has a lot of food left. And she already has sent the sellswords into the hills to resume food trade to Meereen.

Oh unrelated just noticed the kill bill reference in your sig lol

"You and I have unfinished business"

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Oh, it certainly won't be pretty. To use an image from the books, I'm pretty sure that Volantis' black walls will be painted in a much brighter colour before the books are true. Dany's conquests have already sent the slave trade realing and that won't get better. But to really put it out in Dany's area of influence will take man years. And if there is no alternative, it won't survive Daenerys.

That painted a picture in my head! good imagery :)

Still, a large group is the end for them. It's slow, risky, and impossible to supply. The pale mare kills them all in one months.

Trust me, this is historical. This has happened on Earth.

I mean...isn't this the WHOLE POINT of Daenerys's arc in Meeren? That she cannot save the world?

Yes I understand it happens on Earth.

The pale mare will kill thousands of people, that can hardly be laid at Dany's feet.

I'm not sure if that is the whole point of her arc in Meereen, I think it has been on long lesson on how you can't trust anybody.

[Ingelheim]

And you pull that Lannisport number out of your ass, so your speculation has little to no worth. The only thing we know is that Lannisport is bigger than White Harbour and Gull Town and much smaller than Oldtown and KL. Based on that, I'd put Lannisport population much closer to a 100 000 than 300 000. But it basically boils down to personal opinion right now.

I'd say 200,000--250,000 for Lannisport. 100,000 for Gulltown and 80,000 for White Harbor. 100,000 for Lannisport would make White Harbor just a town.

[Game Of Thrones]

1) Those numbers work with a 90% of slaves. Do we know this for a fact?

2) Trust me...50,000 is an extremly low number of deads. Extremly. Easily, we are talking about twice those deads, maybe even more.

1) Pretty much. Volantis has approximately 70% slaves, and SB is the place where you train slaves, so 90% seems reasonable. 80% still makes 440,000 slaves.

2) Let's assume 150,000 casualties and 80% slaves. That leaves 300,000 freedmen and Dany's ships can only hold about 60,000, 100,000 at most. So a large majority of freedmen would be left behind.

[Ingelheim]

That painted a picture in my head! good imagery :)

Yes I understand it happens on Earth.

The pale mare will kill thousands of people, that can hardly be laid at Dany's feet.

I'm not sure if that is the whole point of her arc in Meereen, I think it has been on long lesson on how you can't trust anybody.

But that pale mare can be avoided with smaller groups. Smaller groups travel faster, are better organized, and have for chances of survival. Maybe not avoided, but certainly reduced.

[Game Of Thrones]

And you pull that Lannisport number out of your ass, so your speculation has little to no worth. The only thing we know is that Lannisport is bigger than White Harbour and Gull Town and much smaller than Oldtown and KL. Based on that, I'd put Lannisport population much closer to a 100 000 than 300 000. But it basically boils down to personal opinion right now.

EDIT: and we don't know how big the percentage of slaves is. Nor do we know how any more people will die before they can even start to travel. I'm sure the dieing isn't done yet.

1. LOL at Lannisport being 100,000. You realize that there are 500,000 people in KL an Lannisport is the third largest city in Westeros, right?

2. 90% is rather obvious considering that SB is where all slaves are trained. Could actually be higher.

[Mrs_Darcy]

This certainly makes sense, but then there's the HOTU vision of the crones giving Dany homage. As you know, there is reason not to completely blow the HOTU visions off.

How that vision interacts with the multi-headed organization of the Dothraki is anybody's guess. But at any rate, it's not about eradication, it's about absorption/synthesis/metamorphosis.

Actually, there are other posters suggesting, that the crones are preparing for putting Dany on trial in this vision.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/98895-will-khal-jhaqo-bend-the-knee-or-die/?p=5087341

[Suzanna Stormborn]

But that pale mare can be avoided with smaller groups. Smaller groups travel faster, are better organized, and have for chances of survival. Maybe not avoided, but certainly reduced.

:) Good I hope barristan knows that as well, or whoever the organizer of all this is :)

Obviously as a supporter of Dany I am hoping that she will be able to save as many of the freedmen and slaves as she can, because I dont want to hear about her acts of 'genocide' on the forum more than anything else.

But we do have some commanders here helping Dany, people who know about transporting large amount of people around, Barristan, Victarion plus Tyrion, possibly Illyrio's input at some point. i think with all those brains helping out Dany could at least have a fairly good plan on what to do with everyone after the battle.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Actually, there are other posters suggesting, that the crones are preparing for putting Dany on trial in this vision.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/98895-will-khal-jhaqo-bend-the-knee-or-die/?p=5087341

her and Drogon? that may be difficult.

I doubt she can end slavery in all of the continent but when/if she conquers/liberates Volantis then a huge chunk of it will be ended.

Also great post Suzanna :)

Oh unrelated just noticed the kill bill reference in your sig lol

"You and I have unfinished business"

Thank you dear :) Yeah KB is my fave! And it has soooooo much in common with asoiaf it makes me think Tarantino and GRRM are friends.

[SeanF]

After being persuaded they will want a reward for fighting her?

All soldiers need to be rewarded for risking their lives for their leader.

IMO, it would be absurd to somehow appeal to their better natures. So, she should point out that the profits of the Slave Trade have gone to the Ghiscari and Free Cities for centuries. If they unite and serve her, she can give them all their accumulated wealth and lands.

"I think the Free Cities are in need of new Lords."

[Hrafntýr]

But declaring slavery illegal was more an act on the demand than on the supply side. The point many posters make is that as long as Quarth, Volatnis, Myr, Lys, Norvos and some people in Pentos demand slaves, there is someone willing to supply them with. I mean we already see in AFFC, that Euron enters the slave trade, because prices have risen.

Yes, but a reduction of the demand side has an impact upon suppliers, and the build-up of an alternate economy, with perhaps a trade network of non-slave states in coalition (with possible embargoes of slave states) could also change the regional economy so that it becomes less profitable to engage in slave raiding, slave making and slavery-based production of goods. There's also likely a harder to measure ideological impact of successful slave rebellions and successful non-slave economies (this was a factor in the development and spread of new forms of abolition in 19th century Europe).

[Ingelheim]

:) Good I hope barristan knows that as well, or whoever the organizer of all this is :)

Obviously as a supporter of Dany I am hoping that she will be able to save as many of the freedmen and slaves as she can, because I dont want to hear about her acts of 'genocide' on the forum more than anything else.

But we do have some commanders here helping Dany, people who know about transporting large amount of people around, Barristan, Victarion plus Tyrion, possibly Illyrio's input at some point. i think with all those brains helping out Dany could at least have a fairly good plan on what to do with everyone after the battle.

He will. He's a fighter, after all.

If the 400,000 slaves, or 300K, or any number over 50K travel together...they are all dead. If they choose to make 15-20 smaller groups, many of them will survive.

Of course, with many I mean around 50%. Maybe even more.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

All soldiers need to be rewarded for risking their lives for their leader.

IMO, it would be absurd to somehow appeal to their better natures. So, she should point out that the profits of the Slave Trade have gone to the Ghiscari and Free Cities for centuries. If they unite and serve her, she can give them all their accumulated wealth and lands.

"I think the Free Cities are in need of new Lords."

Oh right, I just didnt understand what you meant. You bring up an entirely different discussion. Obvisouly we have seen people already asking Dany for her to give them cities once she leaves Meereen,....I am wondering about Pentos.

[Veltigar]

1. LOL at Lannisport being 100,000. You realize that there are 500,000 people in KL an Lannisport is the third largest city in Westeros, right?

Your reading comprehension is faultering: 'Closer to a 100 000 than to 300 000' does not equal 100 000. Nice try though.

We only have information about the relative size of Lannisport, nothing to indicate her population in absolute numbers, besides the fact that LP's population number is much smaller than 500 000. So, you have no way to state that 300 000 number with any real certainty. Compare with an example from the real world: the Greater London Built-up area has a population of 9,787,426 souls. The third biggest area (West Midlands Built-up area) has only 2,440,986 inhabitants. If the only thing I told you was: GBL has a population of about 10 million people and the third largest urban area of the UK is much smaller, you could never state anything with certainty about the ammount of people living in the West Midlands Built-up area.

[Mrs_Darcy]

I agree. Simply ordering them on this mission would not be good enough. Offer them land or gold or some other incentive, than yes you might get some takers.

Whose land and whose gold? The Iron Throne is broke, so any gold Dany spends has to come from somewhere else. The Iron Throne likewise does not possess not distributed, fertile land (maybe the Gift and the New Gift, but these lands would sound bad to most Southerners and and Night's Watch and the other Northerners would be against Northern Castles being awarded to Southern lords).

If Dany starts awarding land of the lords who refuse to participate in her free-Essos-from-the-slavetrade-mission to their neighbours the new owners might find themselves in an Emmon-Frey-position: They have a piece of paper, while current lord sits in his castle and refuses to hand it over.

Additionally, since the lords who sent troops to Essos do not have them at hand to claim their new lands and the previous owners still have their intact forces, this might be really hard to enforce.

[Le Cygne]

<snip>

Still reading through the thread, but interesting OP, and definitely possible.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

They'll expect plunder from the places she conquers; instead of taking slaves, they may become overlords, ruling the conquered people as serfs and tenants; and taking women from the conquered people as wives, rather than gang-raping them. So, formally, there wouldn't be slavery, but the conquered people would arguably be oppressed.

I kind of see this as a possibility denting slavery in addition to the Dothrakie, almost like how the Valyrian freehold was run.

They didn't rule Volantis for example, just left it as a freehold and helped them when needed.

[OldGimletEye]

With regard to this whole thing. I am very inclined to really think that GRRM isn't going to give us the satisfaction of seeing Dany as either a clear cut hero or villain.

Up to now, I have had real problems with Dany's decision making. And I am not inclined to cut her a break because of her age. But depending on how this whole thing plays out, I might revise my opinion of her, although I am skeptical of the rosy assessments that come out of the Targaryen Propaganda Ministry.