Dany can Cripple the Slave Trade completely before she leaves Meereen.

[El Guapo]

If Volantis has 800,000 people, then it's a matter of whether it's 550,000 enslaved people or 700,000....so it matters a lot.

Actually it is adifference between 640,000 people and 720,000 people.

[Ingelheim]

If Volantis has 800,000 people, then it's a matter of whether it's 550,000 enslaved people or 700,000....so it matters a lot.

...

80% of 800,000 is 640,000. Not 550K.

And 90% of 800,000 is 720,000.

A difference of 80K, not 150K.

[Game Of Thrones]

Nobody wants horses in medievil times? Are you serious?

Essos is not Western Europe. Nobody needs horses in a city-state, especially when many of your wars are economical, as Tywin says.

Or do you think Venice would have paid fortunes for horses?

[Hrafntýr]

Ending slavery on an entire continent would require a lifetime. We have 2 books left (maybe 3), and I'm pretty sure Martin doesn't plan for Dany to run all around Essos righting wrongs and having absolutely everything go her way so she can establish Essositopia and then go around doing whatever she's supposed to do in Westeros. There isn't enough time and that story would be a plot tumor of such epic proportions as to make the infamous Meereenese seem like a swift, quiet stroll.

Also, to people using Haiti as an example, I don't want to offend anybody, but it was a French slave colony that produced good to be exported elsewhere and had basically no riches or power of its own. Volantis is a very powerful city-state with a mighty standing army and a cultural metropolis. They are nowhere near the same. And, while Haiti was a successfull slave revolt, it was, sadly, not a successfull state at all.

That's just where I was suggesting that there may be a difference in the outcomes of Haiti and Volantis. Whereas the young Haiti was politically and economically ostracized by Europe and America on account of their own economic interest in slavery (this being a major reason for independent Haiti's lack of successful state-building), a young non-slaver Volantis might actually be able to have some political and economic partners and thus avoid some of the negative consequences that Haiti saw.

But personally I'm not on expecting to see everything wrapped up all neat and tidy, but I do think that we might get hints of forces of transformation, and a slave revolt in Volantis seems rather suggested by the text.

But the standing army is mostly R'hllor worshippers and the leaders don't trust them to fight Benerro if he leads a revolt.

This is an important point, I had forgotten about that!

[Game Of Thrones]

...

80% of 800,000 is 640,000. Not 550K.

And 90% of 800,000 is 720,000.

A difference of 80K, not 150K.

I was assuming 70%, and rounded it.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Those numbers are quite close to what Tyrion said though. I mean, there's no much difference between an 80% of the population being slaves and a 90%.

Yes it makes such a small difference there was no need for a post about it being 80%. It is more than obvious that Volantis is ready to erupt and that GRRM doesnt like slavery, given his treatment of slavers thus far.

This is bound to happen. I predict a Nymeria like move, where she burns the decripit city of Meereen to show her followers that there is no way back (+ the city can't support herself without slavery, so she has to destroy it for good measure). Yunkai will be pillaged for supplies and destroyed, so that it to can't rekindle slavery in the bay area.

I agree. Slavetrade won't stop in the whole of Essos even with all Dany's resources pooled together. Everything east of the Dothraki Sea is safe at the very least.

Qarth, due to it's location is also secure from a direct intervention. However, trade embargo's could cripple the city. Western Essos on the other hand can be clenzed of slavery (at least nominally). If Dany get's a sizeable chunk of the Dotraki to follow her (I'm sure some will oppose her, those loyal to the Dothraki way), as well as the Volantinians and perhaps Braavos, the anti-slavery coalition would basically control the seas and large chunks of the land. If the necessary reforms are made, the end of slavery could be more than just a fad.

Thanx for joining the conversation :)

I have been wondering what she will do with Meereen and Yunkai, it is clear at the pit that she is loathing everything that is happening around her. and that she is deeply pissed at herself for bending to all these stupid demands for peace. She wanted peace, but she realizes that Peace in SB= Allowing slavery to continue without a fight.

Hizzy was placating her big time. Telling her that the Yunkish slave auction should be allowed to be set up right outside the city, but that it wont affect Meereen and that Meereen will stay free, which we know is a lie. Tyrion showed us on the auction block, that slaves were being bought for Pit fodder and immediately being taken to the pit for the show the next day. Dany was being undercut and lied to at every turn.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

That's just where I was suggesting that there may be a difference in the outcomes of Haiti and Volantis. Whereas the young Haiti was politically and economically ostracized by Europe and America on account of their own economic interest in slavery (this being a major reason for independent Haiti's lack of successful state-building), a young non-slaver Volantis might actually be able to have some political and economic partners and thus avoid some of the negative consequences that Haiti saw.

But personally I'm not on expecting to see everything wrapped up all neat and tidy, but I do think that we might get hints of forces of transformation, and a slave revolt in Volantis seems rather suggested by the text.

This is an important point, I had forgotten about that!

and Benerro has the Fire Knights, 1000 of them right?

[Game Of Thrones]

and Benerro has the Fire Knights, 1000 of them right?

You mean the Fiery Hand?

[Veltigar]

Actually, I said that thinking about the dragons are the ones who will burn the city. Rhaegal and Viserion are free out there, and battle is going to turn them on.

Although I can see Dany burning the city.

I think Meereen is to big and spread out to be burned by young dragons like Rhaegal and Viserion. It took all of Valyria's might to destroy Old Ghis (that's probably at least 300 dragons). I'm sure Old Ghis was bigger, but not that much bigger that two dragons could do the same damage to Old Ghis as 300 did).

I think it's very important for Dany to burn the city. Both symbolically (old Dany is gone + our quest continues) as in the realm of Realpolitik (to stop slavery, the city needs to go). I also assume that Meereen will serve as a massive funeral pyle, for the many casualties of the Battle of Fire.

[Whitering]

Please explain, oh wise one. And use some examples from the books, or at least something that's implied by the books - unlike the concept of lords refusing to obey reasonable and normal royal orders, such as a call to arms.

I don't know if this is an example, but all the Lords of the realm swore to King Viserys and swore oaths to Rhaenyra that, I think more than half didn't follow through on in Princess and the Queen. We can reasonably assume at this point that Dorne will get a garbled account of how Quentyn died and that Dany executed him or something like that.

I would love for Dany to destroy the slave trade and take the throne, but we are in the minority on these boards. Though I am not rah rah Dany, I do like her, so...I just don't think GRRM has it in him to have things go smoothly.

[MoIaF]

Essos is not Western Europe. Nobody needs horses in a city-state, especially when many of your wars are economical, as Tywin says.

Or do you think Venice would have paid fortunes for horses?

That's the thing though, with the crippling of the slave trade the economical landscape of Slaver's Bay and Volantis is bound to change.

Also, if Daenerys is in Westeros it diversifies the training partners the Dothraki can have. They produce the goods, someone else ships them, it builds an economical structure.

[OldGimletEye]

Yeah, I am not really sold on Dany doing the Moses thing. Isn't Mereen like about 1500 miles from Volantis? Moving thousands of people that far just seems a bit much, particularly when some of those people are going to be elderly, young, sick, or crippled.

[OldGimletEye]

Also, if Daenerys is in Westeros it diversifies the training partners the Dothraki can have. They produce the goods, someone else ships them, it builds an economical structure.

Hopefully, the nitwits will learn about coinage. They are going to need it. Maybe Milton Friedman will help Dany teach the Dothraki about money.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Yeah, I am not really sold on Dany doing the Moses thing. Isn't Mereen like about 1500 miles from Volantis? Moving thousands of people that far just seems a bit much, particularly when some of those people are going to be elderly, young, sick, or crippled.

550 miles as a dragon flies, but I am seriously doubting Dany will be walking anywhere going forward.

Maybe some soldiers will take the demon road though, we will have to wait til after the battle to see how many ships she ends up with. But if she were to get 2 other riders for her dragons before she leaves Meereen then I would think 3 riders could protect marching soldiers from anything serious on the Demon Road....actually 1 dragon and rider could probably protect a marching army.

[MoIaF]

Hopefully, the nitwits will learn about coinage. They are going to need it. Maybe Milton Friedman will help Dany teach the Dothraki about money.

They know about money. They get paid off in goods and gold by the cities that can pay them off.

[Veltigar]

Rhaenyra had a couple of disadvantages though. Many of the Lords who swore the oath had passed away and many heirs who joined Aegon II didn't feel bound by their father/brother/uncle/etc. oaths (e.g. Borros Baratheon was a second son who became Lord). Another problem IIRC was that the oath to Rhaenyra was made before Allicent's children were born. If Viserys I hadn't been such a stupid dolt, he would have made his lords swear their allegiance to Rhaenyra again after the birth of Aegon. That would have made it a lot clearer that Viserys I wanted her to reign after him. Many lords who joined Aegon wouldn't have if Viserys had acted wisely.

[MoIaF]

550 miles as a dragon flies, but I am seriously doubting Dany will be walking anywhere going forward.

Why walk when you can fly. ;)

[OldGimletEye]

550 miles as a dragon flies, but I am seriously doubting Dany will be walking anywhere going forward.

I am not talking about Dany. Also, the trip along the Demon road is mucher longer right?

[OldGimletEye]

They know about money. They get paid off in goods and gold by the cities that can pay them off.

Gold bullion and goods are coins? I thought they barely understood "this business of buying and selling" or something to that effect.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I think Meereen is to big and spread out to be burned by young dragons like Rhaegal and Viserion. It took all of Valyria's might to destroy Old Ghis (that's probably at least 300 dragons). I'm sure Old Ghis was bigger, but not that much bigger that two dragons could do the same damage to Old Ghis as 300 did).

I think it's very important for Dany to burn the city. Both symbolically (old Dany is gone + our quest continues) as in the realm of Realpolitik (to stop slavery, the city needs to go). I also assume that Meereen will serve as a massive funeral pyle, for the many casualties of the Battle of Fire.

I agree that they are too big for the dragons to burn alone. I am fine with her burning the cities, and I'm sure she wouldnt do it with slaves or freedmen still inside. OldGimletEye was saying that the Dothraki would not be as careful as her, which I also agree with. But they would only be coming back to SB with her, so I bet she will be able to keep control of them while she is there. I mean they will obviously plunder the cities if they go into them, but we dont know how any of that will play out yet.