None of The Starks Swords were NOT melted down or bent to make the Iron Throne

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

The Starks, Arryns and Martells do not have swords in the Iron Throne. I think the Arryn bit was dropped either on the blog or in WoIaF previews or something. I know it's come up before. ETA: Guessing the Tullys don't either, given that they allied with Aegon early on.

I think this foreshadows that none of these regions will be in the final Iron Throne-ruled kingdom at the end.

:agree: Great catch, and totally agree. Seems to be heading that way.

[Yukle]

The section on Aegon makes it extremely clear that he was brilliant at diplomacy. He even managed to get the realm to adore Rhaenys (which, admittedly, was due to her very likeable nature) and overlook the fact that he had taken two of his sisters in incestuous relationships. Other than his failed attempts to conquer Dorne, he was able to get people to co-operate extremely well. It's mentioned that his rule was the first time that none of the Seven Kingdoms were at war, either with each other or internally.

Aegon would want to reward the people who surrendered to him rather than fight (a reward other than not murdering them, that is). Melting the swords of his enemies was a boast of his power and a warning to those who opposed his rule. Torrhen Stark led an army from the oldest kingdom of all, from the house that had ruled longer than any other, over a people who were ethnically different to the rest of Westeros. Aegon wasn't going to infuriate the people who did exactly what he'd hoped they would: rally resistance but then capitulate immediately upon seeing the demonstration of his power.

There's also the fact that Torrhen Stark probably wielded Ice in battle. Since that sword is still in Ned Stark's possession three hundred years later, Aegon may even have returned many of the swords he confiscated.

[JonathanTheBold]

The section on Aegon makes it extremely clear that he was brilliant at diplomacy. He even managed to get the realm to adore Rhaenys (which, admittedly, was due to her very likeable nature) and overlook the fact that he had taken two of his sisters in incestuous relationships. Other than his failed attempts to conquer Dorne, he was able to get people to co-operate extremely well. It's mentioned that his rule was the first time that none of the Seven Kingdoms were at war, either with each other or internally.

Aegon would want to reward the people who surrendered to him rather than fight (a reward other than not murdering them, that is). Melting the swords of his enemies was a boast of his power and a warning to those who opposed his rule. Torrhen Stark led an army from the oldest kingdom of all, from the house that had ruled longer than any other, over a people who were ethnically different to the rest of Westeros. Aegon wasn't going to infuriate the people who did exactly what he'd hoped they would: rally resistance but then capitulate immediately upon seeing the demonstration of his power.

There's also the fact that Torrhen Stark probably wielded Ice in battle. Since that sword is still in Ned Stark's possession three hundred years later, Aegon may even have returned many of the swords he confiscated.

it clearly states that he took their swords what else would do with them? as for as ice goes Aegon clearly didn't take anyone valaryian steel sword because the Tralys still have theirs and were smdeffonatly at the redheads field so it's not stretch to assume he let people keeps their because of their value and prestige. lastly Dorne is the oldest kingdom

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

If its traditional please give me a non-Conquest example of when it occurs in Westeros.

I'm shocked that a self-styled "Lion of the West" would have so easily forgotten that Jaime demands the ARMS and armor of the men at Riverrun when negotiating for the castle's surrender.

Your condescending snark is appreciated, and I will keep an eye out for the link. I remember it being a big deal when it was first seen, so it exists somewhere.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Double.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

From that day to this day, Torrhen Stark is remembered as the King Who Knelt...but no Northman left his burned bones beside the Trident, and the swords Aegon collected from Lord Stark and his vassals were not twisted or melted or bent.

Could this not be in relation to his Dragon melting the swords like the swords of the Western and Reach soldiers on the Field of Fire?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Could this not be in relation to his Dragon melting the swords like the swords of the Western and Reach soldiers on the Field of Fire?

Could it not be both?

[Consigliere]

Here's the only source I could find wrt the swords in the IT. http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-full-story-of-targaryen-conquest-in.html?spref=tw&m=1

He took the swords of all the lords he had defeated in battle (but not those who surrendered with honour, like the Arryns and Starks) and melted them in Balerion's breath to form the Iron Throne.

[Ingelheim]

Here's the only source I could find wrt the swords in the IT. http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-full-story-of-targaryen-conquest-in.html?spref=tw&m=1

Thank you very much sir.

There you have it: neither the Stark swords nor the Arryn ones were used for it.

[The Academic Wolf]

lastly Dorne is the oldest kingdom

I must have missed something...I was under the impression that the North had unified into the North before the Andals arrived 6000 years ago...whilst the Dornish only unified 2000 (or is it 1000?) years ago?

Unless your arguing that the patchwork of independent states were a kingdom in any actual sense of the term?

[Yukle]

it clearly states that he took their swords what else would do with them? as for as ice goes Aegon clearly didn't take anyone valaryian steel sword because the Tralys still have theirs and were smdeffonatly at the redheads field so it's not stretch to assume he let people keeps their because of their value and prestige. lastly Dorne is the oldest kingdom

Torrhen personally surrendered to Aegon, so he must've handed over his sword. Aegon may have either let him keep it or handed it back later, though, as a thanks for his submission. Ice is old enough that Torrhen could've wielded it - alternatively, he may have left it in Winterfell.

Also, Dorne isn't the oldest kingdom. It is populated by Andals and Rhoynar, so whatever kingdoms the First Men made there are long gone. The North has been inhabited by the same people for an uninterrupted stretch since the First Men came.

[RumHam]

Here's the only source I could find wrt the swords in the IT. http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-full-story-of-targaryen-conquest-in.html?spref=tw&m=1

Interesting, that must be what we were remembering. Still that was a reading from a non-finalized version of the worldbook, and we now have the finalized version and unless I'm mistaken there's nothing like that in there. There were differences between the History of the Westerlands reading and the final book also.

[JonathanTheBold]

Torrhen personally surrendered to Aegon, so he must've handed over his sword. Aegon may have either let him keep it or handed it back later, though, as a thanks for his submission. Ice is old enough that Torrhen could've wielded it - alternatively, he may have left it in Winterfell.

Also, Dorne isn't the oldest kingdom. It is populated by Andals and Rhoynar, so whatever kingdoms the First Men made there are long gone. The North has been inhabited by the same people for an uninterrupted stretch since the First Men came.

if a building that was build 100 years agogoes under new ownership does that mean the building isnt. 100 years old anymore . also the book clearly states that dorne is the oldest kingdom

[Yukle]

if a building that was build 100 years agogoes under new ownership does that mean the building isnt. 100 years old anymore . also the book clearly states that dorne is the oldest kingdom

Hmm... that metaphor doesn't quite fit. A Kingdom is an arbitrary entity, not a fixed place. So Dorne would've seen many kingdoms throughout its time. The exact wording of TWOIAF is:

The Dornishmen boast that theirs is the oldest of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. This is true, after a fashion. Unlike the Andals, who came later, the First Men were not seafarers. They came to Westeros not on longships but on foot...

Few, however, chose to remain there, for the lands they encountered were far from welcoming... Most of the First Men who came took one look at Dorne and followed [Garth Greenland].

I think that this means that although Dorne has been occupied by humans for the longest period, they haven't had a single political entity ruling them throughout that time. It's mentioned that

their western populace is probably majority First Men, their central parts Andal and their eastern parts majority Rhoynar

. They've had lots of different changes throughout their time, and they didn't resist the Andal invasion as the Starks did. There must have been a time when the leadership completely changed and was reorganised.

It's true that it's the oldest "after a fashion" but I think that's a boast they make that isn't true. The coming of the Andals and the Rhoynar would've changed their political system too much for it to be likely that a continuous kingdom persisted for as long as what happened in the North.

[Lord Lyman]

I am under the impression that Northern swords are in the throne.

My interpretation is that the swords collected weren't damaged in the manner that the Lannister and Gardner swords were.

Also, I believe that anything in the world book supersedes anything mentioned in an SSM.

[Consigliere]

My interpretation is that there are no Stark swords in the IT.

“From there Aegon the Dragon ruled his realm, holding court from a great metal seat made from the melted, twisted, beaten, and broken blades of all his fallen foes”

And since the Stark swords were not twisted, melted or bent, I don't see how these swords could have been used to forge the IT. Nothing suggests that there are Arryn swords in the IT either. From my interpretation of the text, the swords used to forge the IT came from the Field of Fire, Harren the Black and Argilac the Arrogant.

[Lord Knightmare]

My interpretation is that there are no Stark swords in the IT.

“From there Aegon the Dragon ruled his realm, holding court from a great metal seat made from the melted, twisted, beaten, and broken blades of all his fallen foes”

And since the Stark swords were not twisted, melted or bent, I don't see how these swords could have been used to forge the IT. Nothing suggests that there are Arryn swords in the IT either. From my interpretation of the text, the swords used to forge the IT came from the Field of Fire, Harren the Black and Argilac the Arrogant.

It also says fallen foes, neither the Starks or Arryns fell

[LordBloodraven]

From that day to this day, Torrhen Stark is remembered as the King Who Knelt...but no Northman left his burned bones beside the Trident, and the swords Aegon collected from Lord Stark and his vassals were not twisted or melted or bent.

The wording of that passage is kind of ambiguous. It can mean either than Aegon collected their swords for use in the Iron Throne, but they weren't already mangled, which reinforces the earlier part of the sentence about how Torrhen's surrender saved his men from being burned to death; or it can mean that Aegon "collected" their swords in the sense that they became his bannermen, as opposed to collecting burned swords to make the throne.

If you take the latter interpretation, presumably Aegon wasn't in the practise of collecting swords from people who had surrendered without being defeated in battle. There wouldn't be any Arryn swords in the throne either, were that the case. We know he took the Falcon Crown and the Winter Crown, in both cases.

Aegon collected "the swords" of the Northmen i.e. their fealty and vassalage. But he did not take their swords as he did with Harren's, the Reach or the Westerlands

[Free Northman Reborn]

Dorne only became a unified kingdom after Nymeria's arrival, 1000 years ago. She gave Mors Martell the power to defeat his rivals and unite Dorne.

So Dorne is in fact the youngest of the Seven Kingdoms. With the Riverlands maybe a contender too, given how many times it has changed hands or had chunks of it lopped of by invaders.

[DaveSumm]

I took it to mean he did take them for the Iron Throne. Maybe he used them for the steps (this is the massive one pictured in tWoIaF, not the HBO one) because of their straight edges. There's gotta be a saying or motto in there somewhere, something about kneelers swords making good steps, possibly a derogatory term.......I dunno.