Was Daenerys a successful person?

[Maid So Fair]

I agree, however, the true measure of her success won't be known until the final book is published. But as it stands most people in universe would consider her quite successful. Having setbacks can either break you or make you more succesful, we're about to see how Dany reacts to those setbacks in the next book.

I think even if she ends up not doing anything else for the rest of the books or ends up failing to achieve anything more (however unlikely that is from a narrative perspective), she would still be a successful person purely based on what she's done so far. She has had some major victories, both personal, military, and political, and that can't be taken away from her. It seems the social system in a large part of the world is about to be overhauled thanks to her, and even if it's finished by other people and takes generations, being a catalyst to the abolition of slavery is in and of itself a very respectable legacy.

[LordStoneheart]

That's why they declared war on her?

That does not magically erase the fact that she did make them surrender without a big battle or siege.

[SeanF]

I don't think she is learning anything and I don't think she reached a correct conlusion with her epiphany. "Dragons plant no trees" means "I failed and I won't bother with ruling again".

Suppose, for the sake of argument, you're right. Dany leads her armies, and some part of the Dothraki into Western Essos. And, they sack and burn cities, leaving pyramids of heads behind them, and long lines of captives trailing back to Vaes Dothrak. Then she mounts a huge invasion of Westeros.

She'd be highly successful, in that scenario. I hope that's not the path she travels, but it's the path of a successful conqueror.

[C.T. Phipps]

Depends on how you measure success.

She's also not done yet.

However, if she were to die right then and there?

I'd say, yes.

She rose from nothing to greatness.

[kimim]

Depends on how you define success. If you tie it to satisfaction, happiness, achieving life goals, then she's not successful yet. She does not enjoy leading Meereen, hasn't taken the IT, which was her goal. She doesn't even know what she wants. Does she want to be a nurturing mother, plant olive trees, grow SB, possibly Volantes, as healthy, free societies? Does she want to be a killer warrior with dragons and an army, forget all that tree planting, nurturing shit? The uncertainty drives her to have an epiphany on the Dothraki Sea, where she decides that her path will be fire and blood. idk how long that will last; Dany's unpredictable, not exactly a planner.

If you measure success by achievement, then she's very successful: She started off as her brother's slave. She gained the respect of the Dothraki. She birthed dragons. She gained an army. She conquered three major cities. She's the ruler of Meereen. Tens of thousands of freed slaves idolize her as their mother. That's pretty damned impressive.

[Lord Lannister]

I'd say the jury's still out on Dany.

[Nictarion]

There are thousands of people bashing her on the Internet and criticizing every act of hers, that usually means you are a successful person.

This.

Haters gonna hate.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Well if we consider her overall goal as conquering westeros, then from the beginning of the story Dany has been very successful, in that she is much closer to achieving her goal now than she was at the start of the story, or at any point in her life.

[Elia Sand]

Thanks a lot guys. Your responses are all very interesting.

[Northbound3.0]

"Was?" Is Dany, no longer with us? :-)

I'm not the biggest Dany fan, nor am I her greatest fan. She has done plenty wrong and plenty right. Either way, her story and life is not complete.

[Forever May]

Suppose, for the sake of argument, you're right. Dany leads her armies, and some part of the Dothraki into Western Essos. And, they sack and burn cities, leaving pyramids of heads behind them, and long lines of captives trailing back to Vaes Dothrak. Then she mounts a huge invasion of Westeros.

She'd be highly successful, in that scenario. I hope that's not the path she travels, but it's the path of a successful conqueror.

It's not really the path of a successful conqueror. This is not what Aegon the Conqueror did, for example. Aegon made a few brutal examples, yes, but only so he could make others bend the knee without a fight. What you are describing is more akin to what Genghis Khan did way back when. Let me ask you, the Mongolians built the largest empire the world has ever seen, but have you ever met a Mongolian nowadays? Genghis was like Chella, he collected ears of his victims (by the sack loads), he also made pyramids out of heads like you say. In the end, barbarians know nothing about leadership and their quickly built empires collapse as soon as they leave the city. It was similar with the Aztecs, they were so barbarous with their human sacrifice that Cortez was so easily able to find countless local allies to help topple their empire. Their own barbarity was the seeds of their downfall.

Dany's failure at politics means she is doomed. Perhaps someone like Tyrion could save her, but from what we've seen already, Tyrion is fighting his own war and cares nothing for others, and Dany is primed to lead a barbarian horde in a sweep of the land that can be nothing other than brutal. Kill, rape, enslave. This is what Dothraki do and that is what's going to happen. And when the dust settles, if Dany is left on the Iron Throne, people will want revenge for it and she won't last long.

Dany has to be the least successful character.

[TimJames]

At school, I'm currently working on what makes a successful life, and wondered if Dany was. She's my favourite character, so I'd really like to know what you think.

This is my first forum topic, so let me know if I've done anything wrong. I hope I haven't!

Daenarys is not even 20 yet: she still has a lot of her life ahead of her. I'd say that so far she's on the right track. Whether or not she was a successful person depends on what she does with the rest of her life.

[Forever May]

Daenarys is not even 20 yet: she still has a lot of her life ahead of her. I'd say that so far she's on the right track. Whether or not she was a successful person depends on what she does with the rest of her life.

So when Dany is an old lady, she can sit back and laugh about all the people who died of disease and senseless warfare when she was younger. She just thinks, oh, hey, it was all part of the learning experience! People are only allowed a certain degree of folly in their youth before one has to admit they are a total idiot. Dany is well beyond that. Too many people are suffering for the things she has done.

[TimJames]

So when Dany is an old lady, she can sit back and laugh about all the people who died of disease and senseless warfare when she was younger. She just thinks, oh, hey, it was all part of the learning experience! People are only allowed a certain degree of folly in their youth before one has to admit they are a total idiot. Dany is well beyond that. Too many people are suffering for the things she has done.

The question is if she was a SUCCESSFUL person. There are three possible meanings for that.

1. Did she accomplish what she wanted to?

2. Was her life fulfilling? (did she find happiness?)

3. Was she a good person?

For the first two, it is too soon to know.

For the third, it is a bit murky. Yes, she did make the streets of Astapor run red with blood. No she probably didn't have to.

Then again, I'm not sure if she relived the full ramifications of her actions. She might feel bad about the things she did later in life.

[Nictarion]

Dany has to be the least successful character.

What a silly statement. She's brought back dragons from extinction, guided her people through the Red Waste, obtained a massive army, conquered 3 cities, freed thousands of slaves, and this is all by the age of 16. I expect her to keep adding to that list in the remaining books.

She's also much more successful in one very important aspect compared to some of the other characters, she's still alive.

[Maid So Fair]

The question is if she was a SUCCESSFUL person. There are three possible meanings for that.

1. Did she accomplish what she wanted to?

2. Was her life fulfilling? (did she find happiness?)

3. Was she a good person?

For the first two, it is too soon to know.

For the third, it is a bit murky. Yes, she did make the streets of Astapor run red with blood. No she probably didn't have to.

Then again, I'm not sure if she relived the full ramifications of her actions. She might feel bad about the things she did later in life.

The latter two are not usually considered a part of the definition if we are going with just the literal meaning. Being a good person means that you're successful only if that was one of your life goals, and being happy is even more tenuous.

The two most readily accepted meanings are:

1, achieving your goals. I don't think this is all that helpful with Dany because her goals are a lot more ambitious than a normal person's - if you break them down to a series of objectives (e.g. gain respect, get an army, conquer Meereen, defeat the insurgency etc) she is still largely successful.

2, Attainment of wealth/position/honours/status. Here,she's definitely and without a doubt a success as her social posiition is markedly better than when she started.

[SeanF]

So when Dany is an old lady, she can sit back and laugh about all the people who died of disease and senseless warfare when she was younger. She just thinks, oh, hey, it was all part of the learning experience! People are only allowed a certain degree of folly in their youth before one has to admit they are a total idiot. Dany is well beyond that. Too many people are suffering for the things she has done.

Slavers Bay and Eastern Essos are dystopian even without Dany. It's not just that the slavery of Slavers Bay is horrible; the demand for slaves fuels conflict among the Dothraki and between them and other peoples. Dany may very well fail to alter that. Or, she may fail in her lifetime, but others will complete what she tried to achieve. It doesn't mean the effort was not worth making.

Allowing for that, there's certainly much to criticise. Leaving Astapor was an bad decision. *Some* of the people she crucified at Meereen were likely innocent, and in any case, crucifying people and then seeking the assistance of their families to help rule the place isn't likely to turn out well. Her government of Meereen was a strange mix of repression and appeasement. But, Dany didn't take over well-functioning societies, and then ruin them.

It would certainly be out of character for her in old age for her to look back and laugh at the people who suffered. More likely it would sadden her.

[Mithras]

Suppose, for the sake of argument, you're right. Dany leads her armies, and some part of the Dothraki into Western Essos. And, they sack and burn cities, leaving pyramids of heads behind them, and long lines of captives trailing back to Vaes Dothrak. Then she mounts a huge invasion of Westeros.

She'd be highly successful, in that scenario. I hope that's not the path she travels, but it's the path of a successful conqueror.

Defining her goal is the key here. Her goal was always the IT and revenge but she modified it due to the consequences of her impact in the SB. She decided to set things right, learn to rule, heal and grow. As for the end of ADwD, she dismissed learning to rule and redefined her goal. She decided to take what is hers by fire and blood, without considering the casualties. So, if she manages to invade Westeros and destroys all the resistance to her with force, then she will be succesful in that. I believe she will win the Second Dance but she will fail at winning the hearts of the people.

[SeanF]

It's not really the path of a successful conqueror. This is not what Aegon the Conqueror did, for example. Aegon made a few brutal examples, yes, but only so he could make others bend the knee without a fight. What you are describing is more akin to what Genghis Khan did way back when. Let me ask you, the Mongolians built the largest empire the world has ever seen, but have you ever met a Mongolian nowadays? Genghis was like Chella, he collected ears of his victims (by the sack loads), he also made pyramids out of heads like you say. In the end, barbarians know nothing about leadership and their quickly built empires collapse as soon

as they leave the city. It was similar with the Aztecs, they were so barbarous with their human sacrifice that Cortez was so easily able to find countless local allies to help topple their empire. Their own barbarity was the seeds of their downfall.

Dany's failure at politics means she is doomed. Perhaps someone like Tyrion could save her, but from what we've seen already, Tyrion is fighting his own war and cares nothing for others, and Dany is primed to lead a barbarian horde in a sweep of the land that can be nothing other than brutal. Kill, rape, enslave. This is what Dothraki do and that is what's going to happen. And when the dust settles, if Dany is left on the Iron Throne, people will want revenge for it and she won't last long.

Dany has to be the least successful character.

Genghis Khan's empire lasted (as a unified state) for 65 years after his death, and his descendants ruled huge parts of Asia for hundreds of years, so I'd say he was pretty successful.

[Singer's stew]

Very plot armored