How could anyone even think that Stannis would be good king?

[James Arryn]

Person A breaks into Person B's home with a gun, intent on killing person B.

Person B picks up a baseball bat.

Person A shoots person B in self-defense. Hey, Person B had the baseball bat.

REASONING. REASONING. REASONING.

[Minsc]

Would he be a puppet like Renly? No.

There is just as much if not more evidence of Stannis being puppet as there is for Renly.

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

There is just as much if not more evidence of Stannis being puppet as there is for Renly.

A puppet of whom? Mel?

Stannis was a power in his own right. If Renlys boyfriends' family wasn't backing him, he'd hardly have a leg to stand on. Who knows what the Storm lords would do..

Again, why do people think Stannis murdered Renly, but don't acknowledge that Renly was planning the very same thing to his older brother, the one who by law, he owed his allegiance/obedience?

[Minsc]

A puppet of whom? Mel?

Stannis was a power in his own right. If Renlys boyfriends' family wasn't backing him, he'd hardly have a leg to stand on. Who knows what the Storm lords would do..

Again, why do people think Stannis murdered Renly, but don't acknowledge that Renly was planning the very same thing to his older brother, the one who by law, he owed his allegiance/obedience?

Mel and the Florents

Renly had equal if not more power in his own right as Lord of the Stormlands. They would likely support their liege lord, Renly.

Only after Stannis attacked him. No by law he owed Joffrey his allegiance.

[Pecnut]

Stannis doesn't give a crap about the Lord of light because he doesn't need to, he already sees himself as the perfect ruler.

The reason why Stannis doesn't give 2 shits about Davos and anyone else is because he knows that he's useful to him regardless of what he believes in. If he became king and Mel said to him "Right, if you don't make it clear for everyone to worship the Lord of light, you will lose your throne" he'd do it without question. Do you honestly think that IF he becomes king he's going to say to Melisandre "tyvm, goodbye!"?

As for Renly, why are people saying is justified? Stannis had the option of siding with his brother if it meant not being king.

I love how people are so quick to insult when someone holds a negative view on a widely supported character.

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

Mel and the Florents

Renly had equal if not more power in his own right as Lord of the Stormlands. They would likely support their liege lord, Renly.

Only after Stannis attacked him. No by law he owed Joffrey his allegiance.

A puppet of Mel? Possibly, but the Florents? Come on! He burned Alester Florent at the stake for making a deal behind his back. He regularly shoots down his wife Selyse Florent, whenever she says stuff he finds stupid. If he were such a Florent puppet, why wouldn't he name Axell Florent (part of the puppet master) hand of the King instead of Davos? It really burned Axell being passed over for hand, and isn't something one does to the person one is controlled by.

Stannis never attacked Renly. If by attack you mean, showed up with his army, demanding his rightful fealty, than yes I guess. But as soon as that meeting was over, Renly was as intent on killing Stannis and his soldiers, as Stan was on killing Renly. Not just you, but many people seem to think Renly was "murdered" by Stannis, conveniently forgetting that they were at war, and in war different rules apply. If Renly had a shadow assassin to take out Stan he would have.

From the way many people frame Renly's death, you'd think Stannis crept up behind a ten year old Renly as he was picking daisies, and slit his throat.

IF Joff was Robert's real son (which Renly had no reason to doubt) than yes, Renly would have. But since Stannis was his older brother, he owed him allegiance as well. Remember Stan's dilemma over supporting Robert or Aerys? We know who he supported and why.

[Pecnut]

A puppet of Mel? Possibly, but the Florents? Come on! He burned Alester Florent at the stake for making a deal behind his back. He regularly shoots down his wife Selyse Florent, whenever she says stuff he finds stupid. If he were such a Florent puppet, why wouldn't he name Axell Florent (part of the puppet master) hand of the King instead of Davos? It really burned Axell being passed over for hand, and isn't something one does to the person one is controlled by.

Stannis never attacked Renly. If by attack you mean, showed up with his army, demanding his rightful fealty, than yes I guess. But as soon as that meeting was over, Renly was as intent on killing Stannis and his soldiers, as Stan was on killing Renly. Not just you, but many people seem to think Renly was "murdered" by Stannis, conveniently forgetting that they were at war, and in war different rules apply. If Renly had a shadow assassin to take out Stan he would have.

From the way many people frame Renly's death, you'd think Stannis crept up behind a ten year old Renly as he was picking daisies, and slit his throat.

IF Joff was Robert's real son (which Renly had no reason to doubt) than yes, Renly would have. But since Stannis was his older brother, he owed him allegiance as well. Remember Stan's dilemma over supporting Robert or Aerys? We know who he supported and why.

Stannis never would have supported Aerys, how could he go against his house?

The thing with Stannis and Renly is quite similar to the red wedding. Stannis used sorcery and black magic to ensure his brother came to a quick end without even reconsidering for a second. As soon as it was made clear that they were enemies, Stannis had his mind set on killing Renly, Instead of a true battle with Renly with their two armies he used witchcraft instead, with the red wedding Tywin Lannister made a cunning plan to kill off the Starks and save having a massive all out war where hundreds would be slaughtered.

If no one should complain about the murder of Renly then no one should complain about the Red Wedding.

[The Drunkard]

If no one should complain about the murder of Renly then no one should complain about the Red Wedding.

Yeah guys.

[Pikachu101]

Stannis is the Mannis!!!

He's probably the best contender for the throne no questions asked!!!

1) he's worked with Arryn when he was Hand

2) he understands Westerosi politics

3) he's the only one Tywin was actually wary of

4) "there's no creature on earth half so terrifying as a truly just man"

5) he's respected

6) he's just and fair

7) name one contender that would be a better ruler?

8) he's the only one to realise he needs to save the kingdom in order to get the throne

I just really love Stannis

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

Stannis never would have supported Aerys, how could he go against his house?

The thing with Stannis and Renly is quite similar to the red wedding. Stannis used sorcery and black magic to ensure his brother came to a quick end without even reconsidering for a second. As soon as it was made clear that they were enemies, Stannis had his mind set on killing Renly, Instead of a true battle with Renly with their two armies he used witchcraft instead, with the red wedding Tywin Lannister made a cunning plan to kill off the Starks and save having a massive all out war where hundreds would be slaughtered.

If no one should complain about the murder of Renly then no one should complain about the Red Wedding.

They're hardly the same thing. Renly knew Stannis was his adversary, and knew he was going to war and probably was going to kill him. Stannis stood not a chance against Renly on the battlefield, and both of them knew it.

Answer me this? Lets say in World War II an American platoon was vastly outnumbered by a German one. The only chance they have to win, is to use Melisandre's shadow assassin to assassinate the general and save themselves. They would do it. In war it is called "sabotage."

Stannis was never hosting Renly as a guest, and didn't betray him the way the Freys did. Freys were all about false pretenses and treachery.

They're not the same thing, and Renly could absolutely have saved himself by bending the knee. There was nothing Robb could have done to save himself IMO, even marrying the Frey girl

[DavosBolton]

Stannis would not waste 90 000 golden dragons on a Tourney of the Hand.

Stannis would base his small council appointments on competence, not ability to flatter (like Aerys) or good looks (like Cersei did for Aurane Waters)

Stannis would make a great king. Someone who can reign in spending and treat his subjects fairly.

[Pikachu101]

Stannis would not waste 90 000 golden dragons on a Tourney of the Hand.

Stannis would base his small council appointments on competence, not ability to flatter (like Aerys) or good looks (like Cersei did for Aurane Waters)

Stannis would make a great king. Someone who can reign in spending and treat his subjects fairly.

All of this!

Honestly Stannis is the only one whose claim I can actually take seriously.

[Minsc]

A puppet of Mel? Possibly, but the Florents? Come on! He burned Alester Florent at the stake for making a deal behind his back. He regularly shoots down his wife Selyse Florent, whenever she says stuff he finds stupid. If he were such a Florent puppet, why wouldn't he name Axell Florent (part of the puppet master) hand of the King instead of Davos? It really burned Axell being passed over for hand, and isn't something one does to the person one is controlled by.

Stannis never attacked Renly. If by attack you mean, showed up with his army, demanding his rightful fealty, than yes I guess. But as soon as that meeting was over, Renly was as intent on killing Stannis and his soldiers, as Stan was on killing Renly. Not just you, but many people seem to think Renly was "murdered" by Stannis, conveniently forgetting that they were at war, and in war different rules apply. If Renly had a shadow assassin to take out Stan he would have.

From the way many people frame Renly's death, you'd think Stannis crept up behind a ten year old Renly as he was picking daisies, and slit his throat.

IF Joff was Robert's real son (which Renly had no reason to doubt) than yes, Renly would have. But since Stannis was his older brother, he owed him allegiance as well. Remember Stan's dilemma over supporting Robert or Aerys? We know who he supported and why.

Everything Renly haters attempt to use to point to Renly being a Tyrell puppet is equally true for Stannis and the Florents.

Besieging someone's castle and then threatening them is attacking someone. Both things Stannis did to Renly.

Stannis has no concrete evidence of the twincest, thus presumption is Joffrey is Robert's son. Thus, Renly only owed Joffrey allegiance not his fellow rebel brother.

[Hrulj]

Everything Renly haters attempt to use to point to Renly being a Tyrell puppet is equally true for Stannis and the Florents.

Besieging someone's castle and then threatening them is attacking someone. Both things Stannis did to Renly.

Stannis has no concrete evidence of the twincest, thus presumption is Joffrey is Robert's son. Thus, Renly only owed Joffrey allegiance not his fellow rebel brother.

Stannis was actualy the one investigating incest along with the old hand. That is why he fled to Dragonstone. He knew the truth.

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

^ In what ways is the Florent/Tyrell situation even at all analagous? Really owed 1/2-2/3rds of his army to the Tyrells and their various banner men. The Florents were just one house among many smaller houses who made up Stannis' army. If Stan was their puppet, how do you explain him slighting them so much, in a way Renly never did to the Tyrells?

He had strong suspicions, which he felt were even more validated by Neds investigation. In an era before DNA testing, Ned had no solid proof of the twincest either. Should he have not acted? Was he committing treason against his rightful king when he moved against Cersei? Sure Cersei told him, but that is still just hearsay. Where was Ned's concrete proof?

[Syrio Fo-real]

Please fill in the answer that best fits.

1) Stannis Baratheon, ________.

A)Great King

B)Greatest King

A

Stannis is stern and fair. Great qualities in a leader with such responsibilities as a king. He may not inspire loyalty in everyone but he surrounds himself with people that do. Davos and Melisandre. And if all else fails he can intimidate the minions into obedience

[Hrulj]

^ In what ways is the Florent/Tyrell situation even at all analagous? Really owed 1/2-2/3rds of his army to the Tyrells and their various banner men. The Florents were just one house among many smaller houses who made up Stannis' army. If Stan was their puppet, how do you explain him slighting them so much, in a way Renly never did to the Tyrells?

He had strong suspicions, which he felt were even more validated by Neds investigation. In an era before DNA testing, Ned had no solid proof of the twincest either. Should he have not acted? Was he committing treason against his rightful king when he moved against Cersei? Sure Cersei told him, but that is still just hearsay. Where was Ned's concrete proof?

"The king’s brothers are the ones giving Cersei sleepless nights … Lord Stannis in particular. His claim is the true one, he is known for his prowess as a battle commander, and he is utterly without mercy. There is no creature on earth half so terrifying as a truly just man.

[RenlyIsNotRight]

As an avowed Stannis fan, I think Stannis would be a good war time king but maybe not the greatest peacetime king. Truth be told, I could give a shit less whether or not he ends up on the throne, in fact I'd prefer seeing him dying fending off The Others, but that's just me...

...inb4 Stannis zealots disown me.

[Sword of the Morgan]

I don't think he would be a great king, but he certainly would not be the worst.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Minsc, I thought about that when writing it, but Stannis is a puppet to Melissandre, not another noble family, which is what I meant in terms of the politics. Won't deny he's Mels puppet tho.