How could anyone even think that Stannis would be good king?

[RoamingRonin]

1. I can't support the man and his doomed cause. He's a pretender just like the people he's determined to destroy. He's sold his soul based on a lie. He doesn't even know it and I'm not sure if that makes it worse or not.

2. He's unlikeable. I laugh at his dry humor, sure, but all the complaining and complete lack of social skills makes me not like him. There's not much difference between him and Randyll Tarly.

[Edit to add] 3: Even though his fans like to ignore the Red God thing, if he ascended to the throne, Melisandre is coming with him. He's changed his sigil. He's demanded of the wildlings. Somehow, someway, R'hllor would become an issue for Westeros.

While I like Davos, I think the only reason Stannis accepts him is because Davos is completely dependent on him. Stannis can't deal with anyone that can defy him and Davos can't. All Davos owes he owes to Stannis and Stannis can take it away at the drop of a dime. I think Stannis enjoys that. It seems every time they interact, Stannis is threatening him (some times with death).

This man is determined to be king but I can't see him being a successful king in peace time. He just doesn't have the personality. Every time he interacts with someone, he has to complain and bring up every slight he's ever suffered. Most of the time it's unnecessary. Like the time he met Catelyn and complained about Ned even though Ned was dead, had supported Stannis' claim and the two had no issues between them.

[Rhaechyll Targaryen]

I agree with all of Hear Me Meow's points.

As for whether or not Stannis murdered Renly, I think it's important to consider Stannis's reaction here and I get the impression that he's been haunted by his choice and probably wishes that he could take it back. Renly will probably haunt him forever and I think this is because Stannis knows in his heart that he fought dirty by going the shadow baby route. He knew he wouldn't be able to beat Renly honorably on the field. I definitely don't think he would be tormented by the dreams if he'd killed Renly with his own sword.

As for what sort of a ruler Stannis would make--I basically feel like he's the best of the worst of the known contenders at the end of the day (not counting Jon as that's still officially a secret.) Yeah, he's better than the Lannister set but I feel like he's too stubborn, rigid, and unaccommodating for him to be loved by the smallfolk or the nobles. The guy just doesn't know how to get along and make/keep friends and I feel that a good king should be aable to do those things. I'm not saying that he should be best buddies with everyonejust that tthere's a reason so many people preferred Renly and even Robert to him. He was even sour as a child IMO he's always been this way and is unlikely to ever change.

Then when I think about him wanting shutdown all of the brothels I think of him as somebody who just doesn't get. Not to mention his attitude being somewhat hypocritical when I consider his relationship with Melisandre.

I think Stannis has done some great things but I can't say that I want to see him on the Iron Throne. I think I'd rather him be on Jon and/or Dany's small council. Master of Laws or something like that.

[Max of the Magic Friends]

I get the feeling that Stannis is more inclined to believe in the Lord of Light now than at the beginning of the series, but he still is no fanatic. A vast majority of his army follow the Seven or the Old Gods, and he has refused point-blank to burn unbelievers when asked. Why exactly do people still believe that there will be some Westeros-wide purge of religions if he comes to power? The only times he's indulged Melisandre's pyromania is when it's pragmatically useful, such as getting "Lightbringer" by burning the idols of the Seven, or it's used against someone that actively betrays his trust, like Alester Florent.

Stannis is not a puppet of anyone. Melisandre, the Florents, and Davos make suggestions and he either accepts or rejects them - that's what advisers are for. The people that think that he's being used by Melisandre are either show-watchers only or have overlooked that fact that Stannis repeatedly ignores her advice and disregards what she thinks. When she suggests he burn Edric, he sided with Davos instead and tortured himself over the decision for half a year, and only begun to agree with her after it seemed like he had no other choice - is that a puppet?

The only people who have something to fear from Stannis coming to power are the guilty, and the only "bloodbath" that might happened if he took the throne would be taking the heads off the people responsible for treason and atrocity throughout his kingdom. Littlefinger, Varys, the Lannisters, the Boltons... are these really people that shouldn't be executed? It would be entirely just to lob their tops off, considering the evil they've perpetrated on the innocent people of the realm, and I'd have no problem with Stannis doing so.

Oh, and Stannis didn't know that Melisandre assassinated Renly, at least not while it was happening. He says as much to Davos when he confronts him about Renly and Penrose - note that he does not deny having Penrose killed, because he knows that he ordered it, but does deny Renly. Melisandre killed Renly of her own volition, and whether or not Stannis is in denial about his brother's assassination now, he certainly didn't know about it at the time.

So what would Stannis bring? A meritocratic small council? A fantastic Hand of the King that he works closely with? A just approach to others that will ensure that the people that bled the realm will be punished and the noble families won't be able to get away with their crimes any longer? A lifetime of experience in war that will make him able to hold off the Others - something that no one else has or is even considering? Like it or not, Stannis is the best choice for king that's on the table right now, and in my opinion he would be a great ruler.

[Batbob45]

Stannis as king would improve the mess that is KG

He would keep Balon Swann(he earned his spot) but he get rid of knight who he think didn't earn a spot in KG.

[Rhaechyll Targaryen]

Stannis has had his badass moments, no doubt about it, but when I think of the scene where Cortenay Penrose basically tells Stannis to go fuck himself I felt like Stannis's weaknesses as a man were on full display with Penrose coming across as being the better man between the two of them.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Well, at least this is a good break from trashing Dany :D

[Edit to add] 3: Even though his fans like to ignore the Red God thing, if he ascended to the throne, Melisandre is coming with him. He's changed his sigil. He's demanded of the wildlings. Somehow, someway, R'hllor would become an issue for Westeros.

This is my main (and maybe only) problem with Stannis. Westeros is, unlike many other fantasy series dealing in medieval-ish scenarios, open minded about religion. No one is forced to follow one single Faith, which is great. Until Melisandre.

Stannis is a smart man. How the hell he believed that people would follow him after he and his priestess made them burn their gods? Of course, they had no other choice but accept because they were going to starve and die, but a man doesn't switch religions that easy just because Stannis did.

[Rhaechyll Targaryen]

What sort of punishment I wonder would Stannis come up with in order to discourage prostitutes like Alayaya and Chataya from operating their brothels? I'd be willing to bet it'd be harsh or else how would he discourage people from using or operating them?

[Batbob45]

What sort of punishment I wonder would Stannis come up with in order to discourage prostitutes like Alayaya and Chataya from operating their brothels? I'd be willing to bet it'd be harsh or else how would he discourage people from using or operating them?

less bad than what Tywin or Ramsey would do

[beric_dondarr_roc_da_mic]

Oh thank God someone posted this!! I thought I was the only one so I just kept it to myself.

Every Stannis chapter confirms his insanity to me. Stannis isn't even human, also that wife of his is just plain evil, and Melisandre, though I would happily be her thrall, is an arsonist. Melisandre is an arsonist people! Every time I read a Stannis chapter I hear the Dun dunt dun dunnnnn music from The Price is Right. But I want him to be happy, to smile and say, "That's all i ever wanted." I will start bawling on the train ride home.

[beric_dondarr_roc_da_mic]

These hate threads are becoming very tedious.

I never knew there were any.

[Batbob45]

Oh thank God someone posted this!! Every Stannis chapter confirms his insanity to me. Stannis isn't even human, also that wife of his is just plain evil, and Melisandre, though I would happily be her thrall, is an arsonist. Melisandre is an arsonist people! Every time I read a Stannis chapter I hear the Dun dunt dun dunnnnn music from The Price is Right. But I want him to be happy, to smile and say, "That's all i ever wanted." I will start bawling in the train on the way home.

Selyse is worst than evil, she a evil snob who name sum up her personality. Selyse means blind and the Florents are blinded by their own ego

it a good thing that the current kids that mothers are Florent like Samwell and Edric Storm avoided the ego probelm

Mel is into fire as much as Robert loved wine.

[Rhaechyll Targaryen]

Tywin and Ramsay aren't in the running to become king.

I don't know that it's true that the only people who have something to fear are bad or "guilty" people.

I'm also not convinced that KL will be this great place once "just" Stannis is involved. Melisandre has made her influence in his life clearly and I highly doubt that would change once he gets on the throne. I find it hard to believe that Mel would stop sharing his bed, she might well make a shadow bby with some other man as she implied with Davos. There would be more conversions. We saw what those men of Stannis's were considering in the North--burning in order to satisfy the LoL. His personal beliefs in religion aside, for all intents and purposes Stannis is endorsing the LoL just by incorporating it into his sigil. IMO that's a big deal whether he wants to aacknowledge it or not.

Stannis isn't Mel's puppet but there's no denying that she's one of the two most influential people in his life so I can see this causing problems for him down the road.

[Shpati]

I don't understand why so many people are in support of Stannis.

Consider these points:

- The people would live in fear of their king if Stannis was ruler, he would probably kill anyone who would not convert to believe in the Lord of Light.

- Melisandre's control over him would most likely increase. The red woman whispering into his ear, what is Stannis other than a puppet to her control and the lord of light??? Like a dog and it's owner, the dog can bark, bite and attack but the owner truly is the one who has control.

- He would kill anyone who he deems a threat without hesitation, countless would die all for the security of his throne, all those who oppose his ruling. Ruthless, cruel, selfish would be perfect words to describe Stannis as a king.

- Family means nothing to him... e.g. He murdered his own brother using black magic without hesitation, he would even most likely use his own daughter to get his own ways if Melisandre told him too.

These are just a few of many points about Stannis...

Is this how a ruler should be???

This is just my opinion obviously, but lot of these stuff he is doing now (being too radical in general) are things he feel he must do to save the realm and take the IT which is his by right. Once/If he saves the realm and gets the IT, I don't think he will be as radical.

So...

- I just really doubt he would just start killing people who don't believe in the Lord of the Light.

- If the Others are defeated and Stannis has the IT, I don't think he would need Mel anymore.

- He would kill people like Littlefinger and Varys, who should be killed imo. These are the kind of people who create 5 problems for each one they solve.

- Family means nothing to him? That's a little harsh. He gave Renly a warning. Look how he treats his daughter who has the skin defect. Look how Tywin (I know Tywin was king, but he practically was) treats his dwarf son.

[Minsc]

^ In what ways is the Florent/Tyrell situation even at all analagous?

Stannis has a Florent Queen, Florent Hand, Florent Admiral of his Fleet, and Florent Castellon additionally they make up a sizable amount of his forces are similar to why people claim Renly was a Tyrell puppet.

He had strong suspicions, which he felt were even more validated by Neds investigation. In an era before DNA testing, Ned had no solid proof of the twincest either. Should he have not acted? Was he committing treason against his rightful king when he moved against Cersei? Sure Cersei told him, but that is still just hearsay. Where was Ned's concrete proof?

Stannis has no connect with Ned thus has no idea about his investigation. Ned had Cersei's own confession, which isn't hearsay. Stannis in contrast has none of that and obviously didn't trust his evidence enough to tell Robert.

[Mithras]

Stannis would not be the best king but he would not be the worst king either. He has his good qualities for a king and bad ones.

In general, he would curbstomp Dany as a ruler in every sense.

[The Drunkard]

You've mellowed on Stannis a lot, Mithras.

[Fat Mac]

Damning with faint praise?

Are you saying he intended to smuggle Shireen out of Dragonstone without Stannis's consent? Like an abduction? I did not get that impression: he sent terms because Stannis's cause was lost. The terms were very favourable to Stannis. At the time Stannis was providing no leadership, so Florent had to try and make the best of it. What you term selling Shireen is really a reconciliation through marriage of two factions. It is not like he wanted Shireen to marry Tyrion: Tommen was the intended husband.

I didn't mean that he was going to smuggle Shireen. At some point Stannis was going to know about it. I argue he had absolutely no right to make the proposal at all. Regardless on whether the deal was good, it was not Florent's to make. He was willing to throw Shireen right in Lannister hands.

As an avowed Stannis fan, I think Stannis would be a good war time king but maybe not the greatest peacetime king. Truth be told, I could give a shit less whether or not he ends up on the throne, in fact I'd prefer seeing him dying fending off The Others, but that's just me...

...inb4 Stannis zealots disown me.

Holy shit dude you're back!

and I agree

[Tyrell_like_Squirrel]

Its all relative, does Stannis have a PHD in economics or international trade? No, but is he more sane that Joffrey? Yes. Is he more interested in doing his job than Robert? Yes. Would he be a puppet like Renly? No. Would he defend the Realm? Yes.

Surely he is not perfect, idk if good is even an accurate word, but sometimes you gotta pick the lessor of evils. I mean come on how else do you decide who to vote for these days? Its not like anyone likes their candidate, its just that you hate the other guy.

:agree:

And not to mention Stannis has grown and changed as a character, that shows a capacity for becoming better. I feel like that's a lot more reassuring then the political mess that Dany would bring, or the current Lannister backed regime.

I think the other posters were right, the OP clearly just watched up to season 3 on the tv show, then made this post.

[RenlyIsNotRight]

[Edit to add] 3: Even though his fans like to ignore the Red God thing, if he ascended to the throne, Melisandre is coming with him. He's changed his sigil. He's demanded of the wildlings. Somehow, someway, R'hllor would become an issue for Westeros.

I really don't think Stannis is going to stick with R'hllor much longer to be honest. As we see in later ADWD and the TWoW sample chapter where he spends more time away from Mel, he actually goes as far as to express his distaste for burnings ("...pray harder") and carries out executions via beheading instead of burning. The latter was done to curry the favor of The Northmen mostly to be fair, but I always felt that the Stannis we see on the march to Winterfell is much more the "genuine" Stannis.

And Mel also seems to be thinking of jumping ship to Jon, so there's also that.

[Lee-Sensei]

I used to think Stannis ould be a good King, but he kind of bailed on his brother to sulk on Dragonstone. He didn't do his duty.