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C.T. Phipps

The Ironborn history is nightmarish, isn't it?

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The Shrike sounds terrifying. His fanaticism unseated a King, started a war with the Westerlands, and led to utter devastation for his people, but he got away with it all.

Also because his name is associated with this in my mind (Hyperion reference): http://www.deviantart.com/art/The-Shrike-313224254

It shows just how religious the people of the islands are and begs to wonder how easy it was for Euron the god less to win the crown.

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It shows just how religious the people of the islands are and begs to wonder how easy it was for Euron the god less to win the crown.

Because Euron at least paid lip service to the Drowned God, and he is a famous reaver. He didn't actively threaten the religion and culture like the Hoare King who converted to the 7 and tried to outlaw the Old Way

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I actually liked reading the Ironborn chapter--especially their more ancient history and myths--it captured my imagination much more than the current generation of Ironborn do in the actual book series.


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Because Euron at least paid lip service to the Drowned God, and he is a famous reaver. He didn't actively threaten the religion and culture like the Hoare King who converted to the 7 and tried to outlaw the Old Way

I like the way Martin avoids even the nobler Ironborn Kings not having a dark side.

The guy who outlaws reaving, for instance, wants to make all of the salt wife children bastards for instance and this is what causes the Ironborn to rise up.

For once, I'm kind of with them.

Plenty of them, if not ALL of the Ironborn, will have ancestors from second and third wives.

He might have actually gotten away with just outlawing reaving.

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The first Greyjoy Lord of the Iron Isles, Vickon, actually happened to be one of the few smart Greyjoys. He was an ultimate pragmatist, not outlawing reaving in general and risking the ire of the Ironborn, just telling them to confine it to outside Westeros to avoid Aegon's wroth. He brought the Seven to the isles knowing Aegon converted to the Faith. As to the protests he has one of the best lines: Let them preach. We have need of winds to fill our sails.



His son Goren could be called another one of the smart Greyjoys. He put down two rebellions, and he managed to win the support of the priests of the Drowned God by asking King Aenys for permission to expel the Faith from the Iron Isles. He was smarter not to take advantage of the chaos of Maegor's wars with the Faith and his nephews to try to gain independence.



As for the Hoares who ruled the riverlands, Harwyn Hardhand was a real bastard, but he was also smart. His son and grandson were idiots. Halleck assaulted the Bloody Gate three times, and had a record of losing wars. Harren managed to piss off all his riverlords with his brutality and plundering the riverlands for materials and gold to build his excessively large royal castle. He then thought he could hold out against a force larger than his own with any help from the Iron Isles being far away, and would have to come over by land through hostile enemy territory.



Balon was a bigger idiot for failing to pay attention to history of what happened when Greyjoys tried to revive the Old Way, it never ended well. The Iron Isles ended up being invaded.



Also, I think the state of the Iron Isles after the end of Harren and House Hoare may clue us in as to what will happen on the Iron Isles when House Greyjoy goes extinct: anarchy when the Ironborn fight each other for supremacy.





The Dothraki, by comparison, are pretty pleasant.



At least with them, you can buy them off.




The Ironborn did have a similar policy with the kings of the riverlands, Westerlands and Reach. That eventually fell through when one king killed the river king's sons for not giving him his tribute on time, and the other kings started building war fleets and fortifying their cities with stone.





Balon's father was kind of okay though.




Yeah, you see where Asha gets it from. I wonder if he and Egg ever met?





The Shrike sounds terrifying. His fanaticism unseated a King, started a war with the Westerlands, and led to utter devastation for his people, but he got away with it all.



Also because his name is associated with this in my mind (Hyperion reference): http://www.deviantart.com/art/The-Shrike-313224254




And from the devastation it took centuries for the Ironborn to regain their former power.


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No king would allow them to separate the North from the rest of the realm as well.

Exactly, and that's why rebellion was stupid in the first place. With the North there was at least Moat Cailin which could potentially have slowed the crown's liberation of the North. But it would most likely have brought the same results to the Ironmen.

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I agree, I was hit by wave after wave of revulsion, and tbh I wasn't keen on them before TWOAIF. Now, eee gods I hope they don't triumph.

The funny thing is the Ironborn look good, compared to the Slavers outside Meereen. We'll still be wanting the Ironborn to smash the siege. But then, Victarion comes over as relatively humane, enlightened, and intelligent, compared to most of the Ironborn described in TWOIAF.

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The funny thing is the Ironborn look good, compared to the Slavers outside Meereen. We'll still be wanting the Ironborn to smash the siege. But then, Victarion comes over as relatively humane, enlightened, and intelligent, compared to most of the Ironborn described in TWOIAF.

This is very true! I admit it.

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It shows just how religious the people of the islands are and begs to wonder how easy it was for Euron the god less to win the crown.

To be honest though even though he might adhere to other gods or no gods at all he's the perfect Ironborn leader, he's exactly what Damphair calls for throughout the Drowned Man and the Prophet chapter. He lives the life that the Drowned God made the Ironborn for, to reave and rape the world.

Damphair just doesn't want him because he molested him (or possibly warged him).

The funny thing is the Ironborn look good, compared to the Slavers outside Meereen. We'll still be wanting the Ironborn to smash the siege. But then, Victarion comes over as relatively humane, enlightened, and intelligent, compared to most of the Ironborn described in TWOIAF.

Slavery is slavery but yeah I suppose there is more reversion in the Meerense essentially living off a slave trade, the selling of people etc compared to the Iron Islands where its putting to work people you captured in battle. Not being able to buy or sell people and their children at least being born free.

The Iron Islands are essentially like Sparta, a small militaristic society that is relient on its Thrall/Helot populace to maintain its agricultural and mining needs while its citizen class goes off to war. I was quite dissapointed not to hear of more Thrall revolts in the chapter (I think there was only 1?) as you would imagine that it is always simmering away there.

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I like the way Martin avoids even the nobler Ironborn Kings not having a dark side.

The guy who outlaws reaving, for instance, wants to make all of the salt wife children bastards for instance and this is what causes the Ironborn to rise up.

For once, I'm kind of with them.

Plenty of them, if not ALL of the Ironborn, will have ancestors from second and third wives.

He might have actually gotten away with just outlawing reaving.

Yeah, just because you're a reformer doesn't mean you're smart.

I think the best Ironborn King was probably Qhorwyn the Cunning. He avoided war because it was "bad for trade" but also beefed up his military capabilities because "weakness invites attack." That strikes the right balance between strength and caution, IMO.

Of course his son was a warmonger who believed "swords are for killing" :rolleyes:

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Yeah, just because you're a reformer doesn't mean you're smart.

I think the best Ironborn King was probably Qhorwyn the Cunning. He avoided war because it was "bad for trade" but also beefed up his military capabilities because "weakness invites attack." That strikes the right balance between strength and caution, IMO.

Of course his son was a warmonger who believed "swords are for killing" :rolleyes:

This is quite common in ASOIAF: it's very rare for a competent ruler to be followed by another competent ruler.

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Exactly, and that's why rebellion was stupid in the first place. With the North there was at least Moat Cailin which could potentially have slowed the crown's liberation of the North. But it would most likely have brought the same results to the Ironmen.

I dont think independence was Balon (and Ashas) long term plan, but a land grab and then negotiate peace with the Crown with a slice of the North as part of their terms.

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The ironborn are hard. They don't play the game of thrones. They, for lack of a better word, kill.

Marry the greenlanders and become soft. Never! (Unless your Balon's father, of course)

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Quellon Greyjoy (Balon's dad) seems like a reasonable guy, he even introduced maesters to the Iron Islands, what is not to love about that guy!!!

If only he was a better father...

Looking at you Euron!

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The ironborn are hard. They don't play the game of thrones. They,for lack of a better word, kill.

The Ironborn are like their name. Hard, but brittle.

They are not tempered steel like the North.

Which really irritates them.

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