R+L=J v.128

[imaginepageant]

Martin confirmed it was Elia...

Well shit.

Thanks for clearing that up!

[Alia of the knife]

Maegors situation cannot completrly br compared, without keeping in mind that he was married to the niece of the High Septon. Marrying a second woman without asking or telling anyone beforehand, is therefore an insult to House Hightower, and the High Septon could, and probably would (and did) support his relatives. Having the power of the Faith in his hands, the High Septon could cause trouble easier than House Hightower could. Aenys wanted to prevent a rebellion, and thus Maegor was send away.

As to how Jon could discover it.. Bran could learn and tell him, or there's something in the crypts of Winterfell to be discovered. Howland Reed is an option as well.

Or, his own dreams in coma. He's already been dreaming of his mother to some degree.

It has been presented as "wishful thinking" on his part ~ "highborn, beautiful with kind eyes."

Little does he realize he has actually been having visions, which I do believe is very Targaryen.

[Mithras]

“I pity them.”

“Why?” Lord Rowan asked her. “Look at them. They’re young and strong, full of life and laughter. And lust, aye, more lust than they know what to do with. There will be many a bastard bred this night, I promise you. Why pity?”

“Because it will not last,” Catelyn answered, sadly. “Because they are the knights of summer, and winter is coming.” “Lady Catelyn, you are wrong.” Brienne regarded her with eyes as blue as her armor. “Winter will never come for the likes of us. Should we die in battle, they will surely sing of us, and it’s always summer in the songs. In the songs all knights are gallant, all maids are beautiful, and the sun is always shining.”

“Will it get cold now?” Shireen was a summer child, and had never known true cold.

“In time,” Cressen replied. “If the gods are good, they will grant us a warm autumn and bountiful harvests, so we might prepare for the winter to come.” The smallfolk said that a long summer meant an even longer winter, but the maester saw no reason to frighten the child with such tales.

Patchface rang his bells. “It is always summer under the sea,” he intoned. “The merwives wear nennymoans in their hair and weave gowns of silver seaweed. I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.”

Shireen giggled. “I should like a gown of silver seaweed.”

“Under the sea, it snows up,” said the fool, “and the rain is dry as bone. I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.”

Both from ACoK. Maybe this is the clue to decipher the last part about Shireen. Patchface always sings and dances.

[UnmaskedLurker]

Or, his own dreams in coma. He's already been dreaming of his mother to some degree.

Its probably reflected as wishful thinking on his part ~ "highborn, beautiful with kind eyes."

Little does he realize he has actually been having visions, which I do believe is very Targaryen.

Good point. The way I believe I have heard it explained before is that Jon has had a recurring dream (vision?) of going into the crypt but always wakes up before it ends. While he is in the coma and cannot wake up, he will complete the dream/vision and talk to either Ned or Lyanna (different people seem to have different theories on who is waiting for him in the crypt) and find out the truth.

Howland Reed might be helpful in other ways--perhaps he has the undeniable proof of what really happened at ToJ (and before, regarding the wedding).

[BearQueen87]

Good point. The way I believe I have heard it explained before is that Jon has had a recurring dream (vision?) of going into the crypt but always wakes up before it ends. While he is in the coma and cannot wake up, he will complete the dream/vision and talk to either Ned or Lyanna (different people seem to have different theories on who is waiting for him in the crypt) and find out the truth.

Howland Reed might be helpful in other ways--perhaps he has the undeniable proof of what really happened at ToJ (and before, regarding the wedding).

I think it has to be Lyanna; Ned's body hasn't reached the crypt yet (unless it does so very early on in Winds).

[sj4iy]

I think it has to be Lyanna; Ned's body hasn't reached the crypt yet (unless it does so very early on in Winds).

She's been waiting for him.

[UnmaskedLurker]

I think it has to be Lyanna; Ned's body hasn't reached the crypt yet (unless it does so very early on in Winds).

Good point. I think he has been having the dream/vision for a while, so it must be Lyanna.

ETA: If this theory is true, I think I might just tear up a bit when I get to that part.

[Attitude]

Little does he realize he has actually been having visions, which I do believe is very Targaryen.

This is also very greenseer.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Or, his own dreams in coma. He's already been dreaming of his mother to some degree.

It has been presented as "wishful thinking" on his part ~ "highborn, beautiful with kind eyes."

Little does he realize he has actually been having visions, which I do believe is very Targaryen.

Possible, of course, but it would seem that prophetic Targaryen dreams usually contain actual dragons (representing humans)..

It could be what Attitude suggests, that he will tap into greenseer abilities once in his coma

[JonCon's Red Beard]

She's been waiting for him.

"Son, I'm glad you're dead... kinda".

[Alia of the knife]

Good point. The way I believe I have heard it explained before is that Jon has had a recurring dream (vision?) of going into the crypt but always wakes up before it ends. While he is in the coma and cannot wake up, he will complete the dream/vision and talk to either Ned or Lyanna (different people seem to have different theories on who is waiting for him in the crypt) and find out the truth.

Howland Reed might be helpful in other ways--perhaps he has the undeniable proof of what really happened at ToJ (and before, regarding the wedding).

Yes, we have Jons dreams of the old kings of winter telling him "he doesn't belong there," and then you have his dreams of this woman who he sees as his mother, though he thinks its his own notion of her.

The message the kings are telling him is that his place is not in WF because his destiny is elsewhere, either the IT or beyond, and then we have him sensing his mother and all this associated with the crypts.

* If in coma, I've always imagined he would have some vision akin to the "I Claudius" finale scene, but in Jons case, he will have people siginificant to his life, (Ned, Robb, Aemon,Ygitte, and then maybe Aerys, Rhaella, Rhaegar, Lyanna whom he will think is Arya), trying to tell him something about what he needs to do.

Anyway, my head canon.

[Alia of the knife]

Possible, of course, but it would seem that prophetic Targaryen dreams usually contain actual dragons (representing humans)..

It could be what Attitude suggests, that he will tap into greenseer abilities once in his coma

True, but I also think this is where "kill the boy, let the man/dragon be born," or "the sleeper must awaken" themes come into play. He has been raised a wolf, but was a creature apart all along and that first life had to be killed to get to his destiny.

[BearQueen87]

Good point. I think he has been having the dream/vision for a while, so it must be Lyanna.

ETA: If this theory is true, I think I might just tear up a bit when I get to that part.

Same!

Yes, we have Jons dreams of the old kings of winter telling him "he doesn't belong there," and then you have his dreams this woman who he sees as his mother, though he thinks its his own notion of her.

The message the kings are telling him is that his place is not in WF because his destiny is elsewhere, either the IT or beyond, and then we have him sensing his mother and all this associated with the crypts.

* If in coma, I've always imagined he would have some vision akin to the "I Claudius" finale scene, but in Jons case, he will have people siginificant to his life, (Ned, Robb, Aemon,Ygitte, and then maybe Aerys, Rhaella, Rhaegar, Lyanna whom he will think is Arya), trying to tell him something about what he needs to do.

Anyway, my head canon.

I like it. I would be an awesome chapter

[Ser Creighton]

Thanks for linking those. I doubt GRRM will change his mind on this...Howland still knows too much.

I don't get it, how does Howland know anything about Lemon trees? Maybe Martin is talking about a different mystery ? No, it must be Lemon trees, I mean look at all the threads about it.

[Alia of the knife]

Same!

I like it. I would be an awesome chapter

You know there has been some excitement over Rick Grimes shaving his beard, and now Jon Snow cutting his hair.

In the case of Jon cutting his hair and what it means, maybe it means his hair gets burned off.......

Like Danys. :smoking:

I don't get it, how does Howland know anything about Lemon trees? Maybe Martin is talking about a different mystery ? No, it must be Lemon trees, I mean look at all the threads about it.

Maybe he has a green thumb. :D

[Ser Creighton]

You know there has been some excitement over Rick Grimes shaving his beard, and now Jon Snow cutting his hair.

In the case of Jon cutting his hair and what it means, maybe it means his hair gets burned off.......

Like Danys. :smoking:

Maybe he has a green thumb. :D

Howland Green Thumb and the Lemon Tree of Braavos. Sounds like a new thread to me, hell that sounds like Harry Book.

Wait Jon cut his hair? Who? When?

[BearQueen87]

Howland Green Thumb and the Lemon Tree of Braavos. Sounds like a new thread to me, hell that sounds like Harry Book.

Wait Jon cut his hair? Who? When?

lol. Kit cut his hair and the internetz exploded.

[sj4iy]

Howland Green Thumb and the Lemon Tree of Braavos. Sounds like a new thread to me, hell that sounds like Harry Book.

Wait Jon cut his hair? Who? When?

Howland Reed planted the lemon tree there ON PURPOSE to hint to Dany that she's actually Jon's twin.

IT ALL MAKES SENSE.

/I'm copyrighting this, btw

[Alia of the knife]

lol. Kit cut his hair and the internetz exploded.

http://hbowatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Targaryen-painting-fire.jpg

I kind of know why Rick did and its consistent with the story line, so for Kit, could be a "foreshadowing."

[sj4iy]

lol. Kit cut his hair and the internetz exploded.

Hairgate.

/I'm copyrighting that, too