Sansa will marry Jon Snow

[Le Cygne]

Seems like House Lannister has about done itself in.

Indeed. (Poor Brienne, she had to fall for one of them...)

Do you remember when my father and relatives organised the slaughter of your Mother, Brother and banner men and then took your mother's family home and imprisoned your Uncle?

Of course, he had nothing to do with any of that. :lol:

And let's not forget, Remember when you knew I was being beaten and didn't say anything until that time it occurred to you this would be a good way to get your fake girlfriend into the mix. And you didn't send me back to my mother, but instead tried to break your brother out of jail?

And then getting into the marriage stuff would be a hoot.

[Taenqyrhae]

He never said that.

As for everything else you've said, all I have to say is this.

Is it a show line only? Because I definitely remember Sandor saying he should have raped Sansa when he had the chance, but I am not 100% certain it was in a book.

[1234567]

Is it a show line only? Because I definitely remember Sandor saying he should have raped Sansa when he had the chance, but I am not 100% certain it was in a book.

He said he should have ripped her heart out and fucked her bloody rather than leave her for that dwarf. I doubt he actually was regretting not ripping her heart out or raping her, but rather he is saying is that those two things would have been better options for her than having to marry Tyrion. In other words marrying T was a fate worse than death.

[LongRider]

:lol:

And let's not forget, Remember when you knew I was being beaten and didn't say anything until that time it occurred to you this would be a good way to get your fake girlfriend into the mix. And you didn't send me back to my mother, but instead tried to break your brother out of jail?

And then getting into the marriage stuff would be a hoot.

Good times! Good good times.

:rofl:

[Le Cygne]

He was goading Arya, hence the way he worded it. But the subtext was there in the "leaving her" part, he blamed himself for leaving her there, he feared the worst, which was that Tyrion had raped her. That's why he nearly lost his life, hearing the news about what happened to Sansa.

Also, to answer the show question, here's a quote from the show director: "He's saying all that really mean stuff, but what he’s really saying is I love you." Subtext...

[Crazy Joe Wilson]

Frankly, I took this as an insult. So who looks like the jerk now?

And what about this one>>>>>>>>>>>

" If you're not willing to acknowledge that GRRM does these sorts of things then that is willful ignorance and there's not much to be done about that except wait for the next book."

An insult and a huge projection!

So please, "handle this conversation like another adult"

If you can, that is.

1) Given that you've been typing lol in a number of your responses, I thought a "weaksauce" would simply be tit for tat. When I went to delete it I missed most of it.

Furthermore, it is common knowledge that GRRM makes a huge use of foreshadowing, misleading prophecy (That still occur), etc. and if you are to continue to ignore that or work your way around it and only focus on the in-story importance of such events such as what you doing with the Ashford Champions, then yes, that is willfully ignoring a part of GRRM's tropes in writing. Nothing insulting in acknowledging that yo ignoring part of an author's intention.

Seriously, answer this. does GRRM just mean for it to be pure coincidence that all of Sansa's suitors line up in the same order as the Ashford Champions? Most "red herrings" in the story are meant for the characters themselves, not the readers, so what can be the explanation of GRRM lining up the Champions in the same order as Sansa's suitors?

[Le Cygne]

This is getting old. The Ashford thing doesn't line up at all. Her story does line up.

[LongRider]

1) Given that you've been typing lol in a number of your responses, I thought a "weaksauce" would simply be tit for tat. When I went to delete it I missed most of it.

Furthermore, it is common knowledge that GRRM makes a huge use of foreshadowing, misleading prophecy (That still occur), etc. and if you are to continue to ignore that or work your way around it and only focus on the in-story importance of such events such as what you doing with the Ashford Champions, then yes, that is willfully ignoring a part of GRRM's tropes in writing. Nothing insulting in acknowledging that yo ignoring part of an author's intention.

Seriously, answer this. does GRRM just mean for it to be pure coincidence that all of Sansa's suitors line up in the same order as the Ashford Champions? Most "red herrings" in the story are meant for the characters themselves, not the readers, so what can be the explanation of GRRM lining up the Champions in the same order as Sansa's suitors?

The foreshadowing seen by many fans to support their pet theories is usually very weak. There is no foreshadowing from the Ashford Tourney that points to Jon marrying Sansa. Here is a great quote about fan theories that I feel explains most of them, and yours too.

Crackpot is fine. It's even fun.

The problem is when a crackpot theory is insisted on us over and over despite the arguments disproving it, making the people believing it something like those little robot toys that keep crashing against the wall once and again until they run out of batteries...

- JonCon's Red Beard

You've run out of batteries.

[TheKingoftheSevenKingdoms]

The foreshadowing seen by many fans to support their pet theories is usually very weak. There is no foreshadowing from the Ashford Tourney that points to Jon marrying Sansa. Here is a great quote about fan theories that I feel explains most of them, and yours too.

You've run out of batteries.

Respect. :bowdown: :agree:

People using this tourney business are quite contradictory. Joffrey is not a Baratheon, but even if we say it depends on just the name, Jon is a Snow - not a Targaryen (at least he does not use the name). Aegon is a more likely husband for Sansa. And might I say the Robert/Sansa betrothal idea was just that: a whimsical idea of Lysa that Littlefinger probably talked her out of. It never came to fruition and I don't think even Lysa was serious about it.

[sj4iy]

The foreshadowing seen by many fans to support their pet theories is usually very weak. There is no foreshadowing from the Ashford Tourney that points to Jon marrying Sansa. Here is a great quote about fan theories that I feel explains most of them, and yours too.

I agree with this. Foreshadowing is a tricky thing even when it does seem to point somewhere.

I see nothing at all pointing to Sansa and Jon together. Absolutely nothing.

[Le Cygne]

He uses "breath mingled" twice, both times after a kiss:

Jon and Val:

“He may not heed your words, but he will hear them.” Val kissed him lightly on the cheek. “You have my thanks, Lord Snow. For the half-blind horse, the salt cod, the free air. For hope.”

Their breath mingled, a white mist in the air...

Alys and Sigorn:

The Magnar all but ripped the maiden’s cloak from Alys’s shoulders, but when he fastened her bride’s cloak about her he was almost tender. As he leaned down to kiss her cheek, their breath mingled.

[LongRider]

Respect. :bowdown: :agree:

People using this tourney business are quite contradictory. Joffrey is not a Baratheon, but even if we say it depends on just the name, Jon is a Snow - not a Targaryen (at least he does not use the name). Aegon is a more likely husband for Sansa. And might I say the Robert/Sansa betrothal idea was just that: a whimsical idea of Lysa that Littlefinger probably talked her out of. It never came to fruition and I don't think even Lysa was serious about it.

Thank you King.

I don't disagree with you about Lysa's betrothal of SW to Sansa. It does however, appear in the text, as opposed to the Jon + Sansa idea. ;)

Even after R+L=J is revealed, if it is, Jon Snow may keep the Snow name. We don't know yet.

[LongRider]

I agree with this. Foreshadowing is a tricky thing even when it does seem to point somewhere.

I see nothing at all pointing to Sansa and Jon together. Absolutely nothing.

Thank you sj4iy.

[TheKingoftheSevenKingdoms]

Thank you King.

I don't disagree with you about Lysa's betrothal of SW to Sansa. It does however, appear in the text, as opposed to the Jon + Sansa idea. ;)

Even after R+L=J is revealed, if it is, Jon Snow may keep the Snow name. We don't know yet.

Oh Alright that does make sense. Thanks for being logical.

[alayne-stone-cold-fox]

really hope this doesn't happen. They've barely even thought of each other so far. it would feel like a really strange 'pair the spares' moment if it happened at the end...

[Alia of the knife]

Regarding Sandor, under all that vitriole and goading, Sandor laments over Sansa in the only way a man fostered in brutality can. And I think he did consider himself a guardian to Arya perhaps in large part, in homage to Sansa.

Sometimes I think with Sandor, he is so internally scarred, "taking the cloth" may be the only peace he will ever find love. Though totally different men, he reminds me somewhat of Bonifer Hasty.

[Annara Snow]

I actually find the Sansa/Gendry foreshadowing more convincing than the Sansa/Jon one, though there isn't too much of that, either.

1) Robert wanted to marry Sansa to his son - well, Gendry is his son.

2) And I think Jaime though to himself once, that Sansa would be more lucky if she just married a blacksmith somewhere.

They could rule the Stormlands. (poor Shireen, I doubt she will survive. Edric is out there, though.)

None is that is likely to be "Sansa/Gendry foreshadowing" by any stretch of the imagination. If it's foreshadowing for anything, it's foreshadowing (or GRRM winking/teasing the readers) Arya/Gendry, obviously - the couple that actually know each other, had a close relationship for two books, and quite a lot of actual 'ship teasing' and foreshadowing that a romantic attraction/relationship may happen between them in the future.

Sansa/Gendry, aka Random Pairing is Random, exists only in fanon among the people who like to use Sansa as a fandom bicycle and ship her with any random character she's never met or had anything to do with, and especially among those who dream of having some sort of a terrible fanfic scenario of a Sansa/Arya bitchfest or Arya being upset. Though there are probably other ulterior motives at work, too - like some people preferring a crackship pairing for Arya to the one that's actually foreshadowed in the text...

Seriously, answer this. does GRRM just mean for it to be pure coincidence that all of Sansa's suitors line up in the same order as the Ashford Champions?

Except, um, they don't? One is: "Baratheon", Lannister, Tyrell, Arryn, Hardying; the other is: Baratheon, Lannister, Tyrell, Hardying, Targaryen. And no Snow anywhere.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Not sure who (or if) Jon will marry...

However, the main romance teased and foreshadowed in the text for Sansa is with Sandor. There's no textual evidence that Sansa and Jon will hook up or marry.

[Clegane'sPup]

No Sansa will not marry Jon Snow.

[Taenqyrhae]

The thing about Sandor saying that about wishing he had raped Sansa, even if he was intentionally trying to make Arya mad and that was not really his dying wish, it does mean he had thought about raping her before - that wouldn't have just popped into his head as a way to get at Arya if he had never contemplated it. So, all those times where Sandor seems vaguely threatening and potentially rape-y towards Sansa are made into much more real dangerous situations, not just the reader mis-reading the intentions of poor misunderstood Sandor. I think that Sandor probably came close to raping Sansa, and decided against it. Who knows his reasons, it may have been something noble within himself making him resist his urges, or maybe he was just afraid of the consequences for himself if he did. Either way, Sandor was seriously thinking about raping Sansa so that makes any romance between the two very creepy.