239JMFL34109 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 First two lines of the Night's Watch vows:"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death." It shall not end until my death. Doesn't sound like a weak excuse to me. We also know that Jon has interpreted the Night's Watch vows very literally in the past. Stressing "the realms of men" in his defense for letting the Free Folk through the Wall. It actually seems pretty plausible that (if he comes back) he would mull over his vows like he always does and come to the conclusion that he died and therefore is released from his vows. yeah i agree with you on the vows. i always thought IF jon dies and IF he comes back i just don't see Jon Snow saying "oh i am going to leave the watch now" that doesn't seem like him. NOW that said i could totally see members of the watch that did not like him saying "well you died you are not a member of the watch so we are picking a new commander and leave" then jon is all like "i will go and make my vows again" to which they would be like "you died for all we know you work with the others so get out" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I feel like you didn't even bother to read the SSM I provided in my first response. Marring makes it clear that Targaryen's are not immune to fire, he uses exactly those words. The quote you provided is in reference to the birth of the dragons, Targaryen's are not immune to fire, however, in that instance a Targaryen was immune to fire for a moment. Again, I think you are reading too much into what happened. To me, GRRM just said that the Targaryens where not specifically immune to fire and that the dragon's birth was unique. This is just my interpretation. I don't deny that all 3 fires could be linked to Dany only. But my preference goes to the 3 fires linked to the 3 heads, one fire per head. Ok, the natural interpretation is 3 fires for Dany. But reading the prophecy with that in mind, you cannot exclude the other. Dany is not alone in the race. My choice for the second alternative is not related to hard evidences excluding the 1st one. But I finally find some "way forward" for the prophecy with Jon. We have 3 fires on one side, a pyre for Jon one the other side. Could the 2 be linked? Yes. Do I see something coming with Dany? No. Is there something impossible or evidences against it? No (I know you see it differently). And that feels great story for me. Maybe GRRM will do something great and unexpected on Dany's side, but that is not my feeling given how her arc was going in ADWD. So by lack of a better or clearer interpretation, I stick with that for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 So nobody else thinks that the second fire she lit was the literal fire in Astapor that ignited a metaphorical fire across the whole of Slavers Bay?The subject of a prophecy doesn't have to be magical (Drago wasn't, and it is generally agreed he was her first mount in the prophecy), but it is generally important to either the individual receiving the prophecy or the wider world. The destinies of thousands of not millions of people were changed by Dany's decision to set the Masters of Astapor on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 So nobody else thinks that the second fire she lit was the literal fire in Astapor that ignited a metaphorical fire across the whole of Slavers Bay?The subject of a prophecy doesn't have to be magical (Drago wasn't, and it is generally agreed he was her first mount in the prophecy), but it is generally important to either the individual receiving the prophecy or the wider world. The destinies of thousands of not millions of people were changed by Dany's decision to set the Masters of Astapor on fire. I don't disagree about the second fire. It could be the Astapor dracarys, that would make sense. However, I do disagree about the "mount" interpretation. It can't be metaphorical, denoting sex. First of all, because it is a rather derogatory term for sex - "mount to love" sounds so ridiculous I can't even (unless it means great sex). Second, "mount to bed" is redundant. Third and most important, if so then it's over. Dany has already had three lovers, her mount to love is Daario (yea, great sex, validates itself... no). Mount can NOT be used as denotative of marriage and therefore exempt Daario because it suits the meaning one wants to give.I think "mount" is literal, so far it must be her Silver and Drogon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I don't disagree about the second fire. It could be the Astapor dracarys, that would make sense. If the fire for death has already been lit, I think burning the undying is a more probable candidate. They were after all "Undying" before they encountered Dany, while after meeting her they are dead. I think "mount" is literal, so far it must be her Silver and Drogon. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I don't disagree about the second fire. It could be the Astapor dracarys, that would make sense. However, I do disagree about the "mount" interpretation. It can't be metaphorical, denoting sex. First of all, because it is a rather derogatory term for sex - "mount to love" sounds so ridiculous I can't even (unless it means great sex). Second, "mount to bed" is redundant. Third and most important, if so then it's over. Dany has already had three lovers, her mount to love is Daario (yea, great sex, validates itself... no). Mount can NOT be used as denotative of marriage and therefore exempt Daario because it suits the meaning one wants to give.I think "mount" is literal, so far it must be her Silver and Drogon.I think the mounts are both literal and metaphorical. Drogo and Silver where the mounts to bed, while Hizdahr and Drogon are the mounts to dread (she dreaded her first night with Hizzy and of course Drogon is the Black Dread come again). I'm not sure if the second fire has been lit but inthink there is a chance that it might still happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I think the mounts are both literal and metaphorical.Drogo and Silver where the mounts to bed, while Hizdahr and Drogon are the mounts to dread (she dreaded her first night with Hizzy and of course Drogon is the Black Dread come again). I wonder who the third mount or mount/person combo is going to be. Ah, who am I kidding, it's going to be either Ghost or Ghost/Jon. It will be a great day on the forum when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Ah, who am I kidding, it's going to be either Ghost or Ghost/Jon. It will be a great day on the forum when it happens. Glorious day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Glorious day I can almost hear the tantrums being thrown :laugh: The board would probably implode under all the anger and screaming. A glorious day indeed :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I can almost hear the tantrums being thrown :laugh: Jokes aside, there is no other magical animal she could mount. And after a dragon, she's not going to have a magical moment riding a horse, unless such horse is a winged robot unicorn that spits fire. It has to be a direwolf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I wonder who the third mount or mount/person combo is going to be. Ah, who am I kidding, it's going to be either Ghost or Ghost/Jon. It will be a great day on the forum when it happens. I don't care about shipping so Jon/Dany leaves me indifferent as a prospect but somehow mounting Ghost whatever this might mean, feels really repulsive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Jokes aside, there is no other magical animal she could mount. And after a dragon, she's not going to have a magical moment riding a horse, unless such horse is a winged robot unicorn that spits fire. It has to be a direwolf. Well, she could always end up riding a unicorn (or unigoat more like) or a mammot :p Kidding aside, I do agree with your reasoning. The Direwolf is only animal she can ride on without loosing a massive amount of cool. I don't care about shipping so Jon/Dany leaves me indifferent as a prospect but somehow mounting Ghost whatever this might mean, feels really repulsive. How is riding on a giant fucking wolf repulsive :p It's like He-Man riding into battle on his tiger, only a billion times cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The Direwolf is only animal she can ride on without loosing a massive amount of cool. or... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The triplet structure of the prophecy reminded me from the outset of Macbeth; Thane of Glamis, Thane of Cawdor, soon to be King hereafter. Classic past/present/future structure beloved of prophets.Mount to bed, fire for life and treason for blood were already done by the time she visited the HotU. I say Drogo rather than the silver because that is not the only horse she ever rides either, and as events important about to be prophesied about a husband trumps a nice riding horse, but they both signal a closed chapter in her life.Present, I interpret somewhat loosely not as the literal 'now' but as the seeking her path phase of her life. I suspect that means the the second set of events will take her up to leaving Essos. The fire she lit at Astapor, she has started riding Dragon, and maybe the treason will be the precipitating event for her actually departing for Westeros?'Future' will be Dany's destiny (not nnecessarily the end of her life, but it would be settled and not prophecy-worthy after the final events in this prophecy). I think that because only one reason of given here, 'for love', that the mount and the fire and the treason will all be linked to one person that Dany loves rather than being seperate events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 or... Are there giant ants in Westeros? :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 there are the other's ice spiders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Are there giant ants in Westeros? :P You will have to ask Mithras about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 How is riding on a giant fucking wolf repulsive :P It's like He-Man riding into battle on his tiger, only a billion times cooler. If you know anything about canine psychology, you'll understand that it's not cool at all (for the wolf, that is). So, if anyone "mounts" Ghost, it will be about domination and submission, not love. Ghost as a wolf is a very independent animal and might consider only one person as his "pack leader" and that's even more amplified given the warg relation (remember, no one but Rickon could give an order to Shaggy). So, another person "mounting" Ghost would necessarily mean that a.) Jon is dead and b.) Ghost is "Reekified". That's what's repulsive. (Yes, too close to the "Dany dies so that Jon can get Drogon" shit. IMO.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 If you know anything about canine psychology, you'll understand that it's not cool at all (for the wolf, that is). So, if anyone "mounts" Ghost, it will be about domination and submission, not love. Ghost as a wolf is a very independent animal and might consider only one person as his "pack leader" and that's even more amplified given the warg relation (remember, no one but Rickon could give an order to Shaggy). So, another person "mounting" Ghost would necessarily mean that a.) Jon is dead and b.) Ghost is "Reekified". That's what's repulsive. (Yes, too close to the "Dany dies so that Jon can get Drogon" shit. IMO.) lets just go with ride like a horse man if that makes you feel better which one of the definitions of mounts anyway...i could see a number of ways that could happen to a number of characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I wonder who the third mount or mount/person combo is going to be. Ah, who am I kidding, it's going to be either Ghost or Ghost/Jon. It will be a great day on the forum when it happens.Hehehe. :devil:Jokes aside, there is no other magical animal she could mount. And after a dragon, she's not going to have a magical moment riding a horse, unless such horse is a winged robot unicorn that spits fire. It has to be a direwolf.Indeed, besides it would fit the color motif of GRRM's rainbow, gray, black and white. :lol:If you know anything about canine psychology, you'll understand that it's not cool at all (for the wolf, that is).So, if anyone "mounts" Ghost, it will be about domination and submission, not love. Ghost as a wolf is a very independent animal and might consider only one person as his "pack leader" and that's even more amplified given the warg relation (remember, no one but Rickon could give an order to Shaggy).So, another person "mounting" Ghost would necessarily mean that a.) Jon is dead and b.) Ghost is "Reekified". That's what's repulsive. (Yes, too close to the "Dany dies so that Jon can get Drogon" shit. IMO.)I don't think it'll be like Dany would ride Ghost around p, that seems silly to me. I think it'll be something like Dany gets trapped somewhere in the Land of Always Winter or somewhere in a Forrest and Ghost will help her and allow her to ride on him when she can no longer go on foot. Or something to that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.