Taenqyrhae Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 If Jon Snow ends up marrying one of the Stark girls, the hints and foreshadowing all point to Arya Stark IMO. Sansa, at least in AGOT, was written as a foil to Arya's character. Sansa's character definitely developed over the course of the novels but I don't see her as being more or even as central as Arya in the overall series. And I definitely don't see her ending up with Jon.I agree it could go either way, but I have doubts that GRRM would match Jon to Arya UNLESS a lot more time passes in the next two books than passed in the first 5. But it could happen, definitely.I know the black dress with feathers on it is a show-only thing, BUT, if the show-runners had been told that Jon was going to marry Sansa in the end (which seems like something big enough that it would be passed on to them), having her wear a crow-like dress would be very clear foreshadowing that she would end up with Jon, in my opinion at least. People base hypotheses about Shireen on show-only information all the time, so I think this is a valid data point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Oh, I've no problem with Arya hitting puberty, falling in love, having sex etc. But I'm not sure whether this whole 'doomed incest love' between Arya and Jon can happen now, considering that Arya is away, and Jon is surrounded by much more mature and attractive women (Melisandre & Val). But I'm not opposed to the notion that Arya could become Jon's queen at the very end of the series, as a sort of second Lyanna. The question that remains is would the person Arya is about to become want such a thing. I'm not sure about that. What makes you think Jon wants older women? What makes you think Arya is becoming less attractive than either of them? What makes you think Arya isn't going to see Jon again? I know the black dress with feathers on it is a show-only thing, BUT, if the show-runners had been told that Jon was going to marry Sansa in the end (which seems like something big enough that it would be passed on to them), having her wear a crow-like dress would be very clear foreshadowing that she would end up with Jon, in my opinion at least. People base hypotheses about Shireen on show-only information all the time, so I think this is a valid data point. Its a Mockingbird dress. Wearing Petyrs personal sigil to get him going. Saying 'I could be yours' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry the Hair Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I may be wrong but it seems like the Arya/Jon/Tyrion love triangle got replaced with Jeyne Poole (fArya)/Theon/Ramsay. Ramsay burns down Winterfell and forces Jeyne Poole to marry him (seems like what draft Tyrion was supposed to do). Theon rescues Jeyne and flees with her. Theon always wanted to be a Stark and even wanted to marry in to th eir family (via Sansa though) which kinda sounds like draft Jon. I never really considered the Ashford tourney to be a serious foreshadowing of Sansa's suiters since it doesn't account for Sansa's brief betrothal to Sweetrobin. As for Sansa's relationship with Jon, I think it just meant to illustrate her character developpment; in AGOT she mirrored her mother's opinion of Jon and now she longs to be reunited with whatever family she has left. That being said there is no Sansa Stark right now... There is only Alayne Stone.Based on this I'm thinking that the Jon-Sansa romance isn't going to happen. But then again this is GRRM so who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry the Hair Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Wasn't littlefinger's attire also adorned with black fathers (like near the collar) that could simply be the current fashion in the Vale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaselPie Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Mockingbirds are not black. Neither are falcons. Crows, however, are. I know show/book are different, but I admit that dress was a huge eyebrow raiser for me because it screamed "crow." ETA the designer Michele Clapton confirmed in a chat at the Metropolitan Museum of Art that she used crow and raven feathers for the dress, but that she imagined Sansa would have "found" raven feathers easily to adorn the dress. For what it's worth *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danilo Sanches Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Now that i'm thinking about it after reading the letter, is the romance between Jon and one of the Stark girls and the whole incestuous dilemma finally being resolved by the revelation that Jon is actually Sansa and Arya's cousin one of the reasons why R+L=J was created in the first place ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePosterThatWasPromised Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I hope she ends up with Aegon. I doubt Jon ever loves again TBH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Okay, I'm shutting up. Jon may be attracted to Arya. But for this to develop into a romance they have to spend time together. Not sure if that's going to happen. I'd not find it uninteresting, but for that to make sense Arya should be at least 12-13 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danilo Sanches Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Arya is too young for this feelings to develop between them. I think Sansa will be the one to spend time with him in the north and realize she has strange feelings towards her half-brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Mockingbirds are not black. Neither are falcons. Crows, however, are. I know show/book are different, but I admit that dress was a huge eyebrow raiser for me because it screamed "crow." ETA the designer Michele Clapton confirmed in a chat at the Metropolitan Museum of Art that she used crow and raven feathers for the dress, but that she imagined Sansa would have "found" raven feathers easily to adorn the dress. For what it's worth *shrug* Mockingbirds have black markings on the wings but they are not completely black no. But like the designer said, Sansa needs to be able to find 'feathers' to make any sort of bird dress. I guess it does call back to Bloodraven as well and the whole magic angle of the series being represented by the Raven. Didn't someone point out that the necklace she wears is similar to the pattern the others made with the dead bodies of the wildings in episode 1. I guess it could represent many things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Arya is too young for this feelings to develop between them. I think Sansa will be the one to spend time with him in the north and realize she has strange feelings towards her half-brother. Arya is the same age currently Sansa was in Game of Thrones when she was betrothed and apparently 'in love' with Joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danilo Sanches Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Arya is the same age currently Sansa was in Game of Thrones when she was betrothed and apparently 'in love' with Joffrey. So Jon will start to pine for a eleven year old Arya ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 So Jon will start to pine for a eleven year old Arya ? He's the same age as Gendry right? Gendry didn't have a problem pining. And they live in a world where a period makes a young girl 'eligible', Arya's is any day now. And keep in mind, he could have a Tommen/Marge wedding where its not consummated. As gross as it is, we have to acknowlege the possibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Targaryen Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 So Jon will start to pine for a eleven year old Arya ? No, they are not even close to meet now. I think Arya will be closer to 13 when they next meet. Lyanna was 13 at Harrenhal, when apperently Rhaegar fell for her. Dany was 13 when she got wed to Drogo, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaselPie Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Mockingbirds have black markings on the wings but they are not completely black no. But like the designer said, Sansa needs to be able to find 'feathers' to make any sort of bird dress. I guess it does call back to Bloodraven as well and the whole magic angle of the series being represented by the Raven. Didn't someone point out that the necklace she wears is similar to the pattern the others made with the dead bodies of the wildings in episode 1. I guess it could represent many things. Yes it could mean anything eventually (in the show). Ravens would of course point to BR somewhat, or Sansa as a "messenger" so I guess we shall see if it meant anything. It just screamed CROW to me. Whether the costume designer had direction from D&D for the details, maybe we'll find out some day. The necklace...I have some notes somewhere about it, and I do recall someone saying that. When I just now looked for the costume designers comments about the outfit, she also said the necklace is supposed to represent Sansa's personal "Needle" and connection to home. So either that's another link to Jon and Ayra or representative of something else... or just the personal whims of the costumer. ETA is Sansa even aware of Needle (Arya's sword) in the books? Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The problem is that Arya seems to be way too preoccupied - and way to traumatized - to allow herself to fall in love, or to reciprocate somebody's feelings for her. She would have to find herself again first, and overcome the traumas of war and of being a cold-blooded assassin. I guess Jon could help he recover 'Arya Stark', but would that lead to romance or rather a the older sibling bond? I really don't know. As to Jon: I think he is surrounded by enough attractive women to get plenty of other love interests for the time being. If this does not work out, fine, but it could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danilo Sanches Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 No, they are not even close to meet now. I think Arya will be closer to 13 when they next meet. Lyanna was 13 at Harrenhal, when apperently Rhaegar fell for her. Dany was 13 when she got wed to Drogo, etc. Knowing how fast time goes by in Martin novels , the series will end by the time Arya is finally 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Yes it could mean anything eventually (in the show). Ravens would of course point to BR somewhat, or Sansa as a "messenger" so I guess we shall see if it meant anything. It just screamed CROW to me. Whether the costume designer had direction from D&D for the details, maybe we'll find out some day. The necklace...I have some notes somewhere about it, and I do recall someone saying that. When I just now looked for the costume designers comments about the outfit, she also said the necklace is supposed to represent Sansa's personal "Needle" and connection to home. So either that's another link to Jon and Ayra or representative of something else... or just the personal whims of the costumer. ETA is Sansa even aware of Needle (Arya's sword) in the books? Cheers. No, Sansa thinks Arya's dancing master was for dancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewolfStark Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 It's not incest if they are cousins. GRRM obviously thinks Starks have no problem marrying cousins as Brandon Stark married his cousin Lyarra and intended for Jon to marry Arya originally. I think you mean Rickard, who married his first cousin once removed (Rickard was a second cousin to his own children)--which adds a bit more distance than a Jon & Arya or Jon & Sansa straight first cousin marriage. As for whether or not it is considered incestuous. That depends upon who you ask. Some cultures consider anything closer than third cousins to be incestuous, while other cultures promote first cousin marriages. Westeros though obviously doesn't seem to mind since it's been permitted in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewolfStark Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 When I just now looked for the costume designers comments about the outfit, she also said the necklace is supposed to represent Sansa's personal "Needle" and connection to home. So either that's another link to Jon and Ayra or representative of something else... or just the personal whims of the costumer. Knowing how costume designers work & are taught to justify their designs, this is the most likely explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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