Is the Rohanne Webber in the Lannister family tree the same one from D&E?

[Ramsay's Penguins]

I think Tywin had his father poisoned and later commanded the crew of Gerion to dump him into the sea. Tyrion obviously did his part of kinslaying in the privy. Jaime and Cersei will kill each other. I have even wilder speculations that Cersei might have poisoned Joffrey unintentionally and will poison Tommen intentionally.

Well if the gasp show is anything to go by, Cersei may well poison Tommen to protect him. I don't believe any of the Joffrey stuff. Inevitably Genna will be killing some Freys when that war comes along.

Kinslaying runs in the family. Plenty of historical Lannisters to die too, such as Queen Lorea and Loren the Lackwit.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Ehh, no. Still don't see it.

The whole reason I started this thread was because I was unsure if that was even the same person in the Lannister family tree. We have no idea how that match came about.

And again, I cannot see her committing any of Tywin's great atrocities. She's not like him.

The connection was always there, though. Gerold was a suitor to Rohanne, but did not want to leave CR. That Rohanne looked at her old suitors after het husband died, should not be surprising.

Gerold likely poisoned Tywald, and definitely poisoned Cerelle. Who better then another reputed poisoner to help him with his escapades?

I don't think she killed all her husbands, but speeding up their demises isn't out of the question.

Tywald was Gerold's son, Tybolt was his brother. And Rohanne being responsible for both Tybolt and Cerelle's deaths would require Eustace to die within two years of marriage.. not impossible, but as of yet, not hinted at.

Rohanne wanted lands and power, so I personally think there is no way she would marry Gerold until he became the Lord of CR... Otherwise, she would have to give up her lands to be the wife of an advisor/regent, a considerably lesser position..

And actually arranging deaths of a family you wish to marry into... Quite dangerous.

Also, the deaths of her husband's seem quite clearly to have been without her help.. or was she at the Redgrass Field? Or did she bewitch a chickenbone? And it should be no big surprise that people die during a plague that kills thousands of others, or that old men are capable of dying of a chill..

[Ramsay's Penguins]

The connection was always there, though. Gerold was a suitor to Rohanne, but did not want to leave CR. That Rohanne looked at her old suitors after het husband died, should not be surprising.

Tywald was Gerold's son, Tybolt was his brother. And Rohanne being responsible for both Tybolt and Cerelle's deaths would require Eustace to die within two years of marriage.. not impossible, but as of yet, not hinted at.

Rohanne wanted lands and power, so I personally think there is no way she would marry Gerold until he became the Lord of CR... Otherwise, she would have to give up her lands to be the wife of an advisor/regent, a considerably lesser position..

And actually arranging deaths of a family you wish to marry into... Quite dangerous.

Also, the deaths of her husband's seem quite clearly to have been without her help.. or was she at the Redgrass Field? Or did she bewitch a chickenbone? And it should be no big surprise that people die during a plague that kills thousands of others, or that old men are capable of dying of a chill..

Why would two men be so suspect able to sickness? Maester Ironborn? It's no fun if they die by natural causes....... Yeah ngl it's not likely at all, but once they reached a certain point I don't think she helped them.

Yeah my bad about the bloody tree to many similar names lmao I'm still memorising it.

[Mithras]

... Or did she bewitch a chickenbone? ...

Yep ;)

[Lord Varys]

The idea that the Rohanne Webber we get to know in TSS murdered anyone is ridiculous. She had nothing to gain from any of that, as she needed a husband to inherit and hold Coldmoat, as well as to continue her line. The whole Red Widow reputation helped to fight off her neighbors' claims and ambitions - which is most likely the reason why she did not actively try to dissuade the rumors that she had killed her husbands -, but it clearly also has become an obstacle to her marriage plans. If Rohanne should have murdered anyone, it would have been the Longinch - who was actually a danger to her - as well as her useless good-kin (Lady Helicent Uffering, Septon Sefton etc.) who only cost her money.

The picture I get from Gerold in the TWoIaF also does not make me believe any of the scandalous rumors about him being a poisoner. Both Tybolt and Cerelle could have died of natural causes. Gerold ended up profiting from their deaths, but just because someone inherits your stuff upon your death does not mean that this someone is going to kill you. There was no reason for him to murder his niece, as he already had the power as her regent for many years, and could easily have arranged a cousin marriage between her and his eldest son to ensure that his and Tybolt's lines are reunited, and that he and his son remain influential even after Cerelle comes of age and rules herself.

In fact, the rumors about him being a poisoner actually seem to have endangered his claim to Casterly Rock and his power, especially during the time he himself had no yet have any children (it seems that he married Rohanne only after he became Lord of Casterly Rock).

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Yeah ok ok ok but it's better if everyone is a poisoner! Forgot about her reputation of her protecting herself.

[RumHam]

I think Tywin had his father poisoned and later commanded the crew of Gerion to dump him into the sea. Tyrion obviously did his part of kinslaying in the privy. Jaime and Cersei will kill each other. I have even wilder speculations that Cersei might have poisoned Joffrey unintentionally and will poison Tommen intentionally.

While I don't think Tywin killed his father, I can see the logic behind it. Why would Tywin kill Gerion? Because he liked to laugh? He could have just banished him from the Rock, or found a cheaper and more discrete way to kill him than paying a crew to throw him overboard. Also we know Tywin coveted Valyrian Steel, so as unlikely as it was that Gerion was going to succeed Tywin should have supported his mission to reclaim Brightroar.

[SeanF]

I don't believe for one moment that Tywin would murder a close family member. "Sharp lessons", yes. Murder, definitely not.

[ambi76]

Yep, the Rohanne Webber from D & E is supposed to be Tywin's grandmother and count me among those who are not happy about that "Easter Egg" and think it's rather dumb fanservice. Why would Rohanne raise a wet blanket like Tytos?

[RumHam]

Yep, the Rohanne Webber from D & E is supposed to be Tywin's grandmother and count me among those who are not happy about that "Easter Egg" and think it's rather dumb fanservice. Why would Rohanne raise a wet blanket like Tytos?

Well he was only ten when she mysteriously vanished.

[ambi76]

Oh, that's convenient then. Still think it's dumb, but hey, maybe there will be another side novel series (The Adventures of the mysterious Spider Lady) on the horizon to explain this further. ;)

[Lord Varys]

Tytos was not important. Actually, it was even convenient that he was weak-willed and not a leader, as he was never supposed to rule. Tytos had to elder brothers, and they did not exactly die in the cradle.

[Annara Snow]

The only similarity between Rohanne and Tywin is that she also thought that being feared is good for your reputation and authority. The difference is that I don't think she organized gang rapes and mass murders to achieve that.

I think Tywin had his father poisoned and later commanded the crew of Gerion to dump him into the sea. Tyrion obviously did his part of kinslaying in the privy. Jaime and Cersei will kill each other. I have even wilder speculations that Cersei might have poisoned Joffrey unintentionally and will poison Tommen intentionally.

The bolded part is the only one I agree with.

The idea that the Rohanne Webber we get to know in TSS murdered anyone is ridiculous. She had nothing to gain from any of that, as she needed a husband to inherit and hold Coldmoat, as well as to continue her line. The whole Red Widow reputation helped to fight off her neighbors' claims and ambitions - which is most likely the reason why she did not actively try to dissuade the rumors that she had killed her husbands -, but it clearly also has become an obstacle to her marriage plans. If Rohanne should have murdered anyone, it would have been the Longinch - who was actually a danger to her - as well as her useless good-kin (Lady Helicent Uffering, Septon Sefton etc.) who only cost her money.

The picture I get from Gerold in the TWoIaF also does not make me believe any of the scandalous rumors about him being a poisoner. Both Tybolt and Cerelle could have died of natural causes. Gerold ended up profiting from their deaths, but just because someone inherits your stuff upon your death does not mean that this someone is going to kill you. There was no reason for him to murder his niece, as he already had the power as her regent for many years, and could easily have arranged a cousin marriage between her and his eldest son to ensure that his and Tybolt's lines are reunited, and that he and his son remain influential even after Cerelle comes of age and rules herself.

In fact, the rumors about him being a poisoner actually seem to have endangered his claim to Casterly Rock and his power, especially during the time he himself had no yet have any children (it seems that he married Rohanne only after he became Lord of Casterly Rock).

:agree:

Oh, that's convenient then. Still think it's dumb, but hey, maybe there will be another side novel series (The Adventures of the mysterious Spider Lady) on the horizon to explain this further. ;)

Such as an upcoming Dunk and Egg story guest starring Rohanne and her husband Gerion and depicting the events surrounding her disappearance? This is obviously bound to be written, just like it's safe to say that the last Dunk & Egg story will be about Summerhall.

[Taemlyn Blackfyre]

I think the elephant in the room is Tywin's exposure to Aerys. The Mad King was his closest friend and raised him up to be the second most powerful in the Realm. Such power so young and with Aerys' slow creep toward insanity forced Tywin into increasingly bold actions, yet the prized succession that he craved for his golden heirs was dashed away by Aerys. True, Tywin was a twisted fuck when he brought down the Tarbecks and Reynes, but he became a true sociopath to Aerys's psychopath during his first reign as Hand.

As for Rohanne and Tywin's similarities and differences, what does that have to do with anything? It would be different if Rohanne had been a Dowager Lady that had coddled Tytos even in his adulthood and squeezed Tywin's cock a la Cersei in Oberyn's tale, but she left the scene a decade or more before Tywin was even born. Subsequent Dunk and Egg stories will elucidate us as to what she became after burying another husband.

[marsyao]

That's the one.

Crazy that she'd end up marrying the lord of CR and becoming the grandma of one of Westeros's greatest douchebags, if that's really her.

All of this lady's former husbands died before she married into Lord of CR's borther, and after that Lord of CR died and her husband became the Lord of CR instead, I wonder under what kind of mysterious circunstance she disappeared

[marsyao]

The idea that the Rohanne Webber we get to know in TSS murdered anyone is ridiculous. She had nothing to gain from any of that, as she needed a husband to inherit and hold Coldmoat, as well as to continue her line. The whole Red Widow reputation helped to fight off her neighbors' claims and ambitions - which is most likely the reason why she did not actively try to dissuade the rumors that she had killed her husbands -, but it clearly also has become an obstacle to her marriage plans. If Rohanne should have murdered anyone, it would have been the Longinch - who was actually a danger to her - as well as her useless good-kin (Lady Helicent Uffering, Septon Sefton etc.) who only cost her money.

No one said she murdered all of her former husbands, at least not the first two since she was too young then, I am not that sure about the last three of her husbands, she obviously did not love these men, and all of them were dead beat who could not advance her and would only drag her down. She did not need a husband to inherit and hold Coldmoat, her father only gave that order before his death, hence after the death of her fourth husband, and Ser Eustace Osgrey would have no use for her after they married. I have to admit I was shock when she married her first love's father, I know why she did it, but that is certainly an "ew" moment.

I believe Her last marriage with Gerold Lannister was what she really wanted at last, then Gerold's Lord brother and his niece died in "suspicous circunstance" and her husband become the Lord of CR, although I do not have evidence that could prove she had anything to do with that, but was there too many coincidence? One thing could be sure though, our lady was no cotton candy.

[Lord Varys]

Rohanne's father made his special testament only after her last husband died, true, but Rohanne still needed a husband to continue her line. Love does not figure into the matter at all. Love matches are essentially happy coincidences in feudal cultures - and many present-day real world cultures, too.

Nothing simply suggests that she is cold-blooded/evil enough to simply murder people to get rid of them. Especially since it would have been better to murder her father first to get Coldmoat, and then off her last husband after she had an heir of her body.

Ser Eustace and Rohanne both needed a spouse. Rohanne to keep Coldmoat and continue, and Ser Eustace to continue the Osgrey line. There is actually a pretty big hint that Daeron the Good's decree subtly challenged the Webbers and Osgrey to unite themselves in marriage, as the Webber privileges in Wat's Wood were only to stand while Ser Eustace lived, and were supposed to end if Eustace died without male issue. By marrying each other House Webber-Osgrey united their lands and retained together more privileges than each of them held before.

Nothing suggests that Ser Eustace died directly after the wedding. Rohanne and he married in 211 AC, and Lord Tybolt Lannister already died in 212 AC, making it very unlikely that Rohanne, living at Coldmoat, had anything to do with it. Tybolt's daughter, Cerelle, died less than a year later, in 213 AC at the age of four - making it also not very likely that Rohanne had anything to do with that.

We don't even know when and how Alysanne Farman, Gerold's first wife, died. But neither Tywald nor Tion - Gerold's twin sons by Rohanne - seem to be very old in 233 (Tywald was still a squire in 233 AC) and 236 when they die, suggesting that Gerold and Rohanne were not yet married in 212-213.

I even entertained the idea that Rohanne and Ser Eustace did actually have children, possibly only a son, who inherited Coldmoat after her. Gerold and Rohanne most likely was a love match both of them happened to broker after each of their spouses was dead (again), just as Rhaenyra and Daemon were finally able to marry after Laenor and Laena's deaths.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

All of this lady's former husbands died before she married into Lord of CR's borther, and after that Lord of CR died and her husband became the Lord of CR instead, I wonder under what kind of mysterious circunstance she disappeared

We don't know exactly when Rohanne married Gerold, but seeing as it would require her to give up both Osgrey and Coldmoat, it seems more likely that the marriage occured after Gerold became the Lord of CR.

[marsyao]

We don't know exactly when Rohanne married Gerold, but seeing as it would require her to give up both Osgrey and Coldmoat, it seems more likely that the marriage occured after Gerold became the Lord of CR.

Of course before Gerold became the Lord of CR, I do not believe that the Lord of CR would marry a woman married five times before

[marsyao]

Rohanne's father made his special testament only after her last husband died, true, but Rohanne still needed a husband to continue her line. Love does not figure into the matter at all. Love matches are essentially happy coincidences in feudal cultures - and many present-day real world cultures, too.

Nothing simply suggests that she is cold-blooded/evil enough to simply murder people to get rid of them. Especially since it would have been better to murder her father first to get Coldmoat, and then off her last husband after she had an heir of her body.

Ser Eustace and Rohanne both needed a spouse. Rohanne to keep Coldmoat and continue, and Ser Eustace to continue the Osgrey line. There is actually a pretty big hint that Daeron the Good's decree subtly challenged the Webbers and Osgrey to unite themselves in marriage, as the Webber privileges in Wat's Wood were only to stand while Ser Eustace lived, and were supposed to end if Eustace died without male issue. By marrying each other House Webber-Osgrey united their lands and retained together more privileges than each of them held before.

Nothing suggests that Ser Eustace died directly after the wedding. Rohanne and he married in 211 AC, and Lord Tybolt Lannister already died in 212 AC, making it very unlikely that Rohanne, living at Coldmoat, had anything to do with it. Tybolt's daughter, Cerelle, died less than a year later, in 213 AC at the age of four - making it also not very likely that Rohanne had anything to do with that.

We don't even know when and how Alysanne Farman, Gerold's first wife, died. But neither Tywald nor Tion - Gerold's twin sons by Rohanne - seem to be very old in 233 (Tywald was still a squire in 233 AC) and 236 when they die, suggesting that Gerold and Rohanne were not yet married in 212-213.

I even entertained the idea that Rohanne and Ser Eustace did actually have children, possibly only a son, who inherited Coldmoat after her. Gerold and Rohanne most likely was a love match both of them happened to broker after each of their spouses was dead (again), just as Rhaenyra and Daemon were finally able to marry after Laenor and Laena's deaths.

Gerold was her suitor in 211, and he became Lord of CR in 213, because I do not believe Lord of CR would marry a lady from a rather minor noble house who, above all, married five times, on the other hand, a second son would have much more freendom on the marriage, so they must marry between 211 and 213, so unless GRRM made a mistake in the "world of ice and fire", then I have to believe that Ser Eustace died immediately after married Rohanne, and she married Gerold shortly after that, remember comparing to CR, these silly woods means nothing. I never say Rohanne was an evil woman, I just think she was a woman who knew what she wanted and would do things that was necessary.