Hugorfonics Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 All hail his grace! The Reaver, the Kraken, lord of Pyke and King of the ironborn. He saw that Roberts government was weak and understood that no Targaryens means a rebirth of the old way. If only Tyrell Martell Viserys and Roberts enemies understood the same. Balons failure in the war was his families fault. Victarian failed against Stannis, his heir lost to Mallister and Aeron is just wack. He played his hand but not all the cards and kept his life and regained his crown. He took more castles then any other combatant in the war of 5, and was on his way to conquer more land then Harren the black. If Theon kept Winterfell and Victarian kept Moat Cailian the war would have ended. Yet even with these losses his dream wasn't diminished, the north hates ironborn but they also hate Freys and wildlings, moves could have been made. Balons only failure was loving his family and being shy to kinslaying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword of the Morgan Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Honestly, he was just really lucky that Robert let him live. What I never understand about the Iron Islanders is why can't the Iron Islands just be enough for them? If they just stayed there they could enjoy their lives and not be bothered. Their culture is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Honestly, he was just really lucky that Robert let him live. What I never understand about the Iron Islanders is why can't the Iron Islands just be enough for them? If they just stayed there they could enjoy their lives and not be bothered. Their culture is ludicrous.Because it's a terrible place. It's cold rainy they can either mine in a dangerous pit or go fishing in hazardous water. And unlike the rest of Westeros they smallfolk have a voice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shmewdog Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 He could have at least tried to get the Tyrells and Martells to help him. But they would have had to face the North/Riverlands/Crownlands/Stormlands/Westerlands/Vale alliance so I'm not seeing victory there either. Viserys was a child hiding in Essos he couldn't do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 He could have at least tried to get the Tyrells and Martells to help him. But they would have had to face the North/Riverlands/Crownlands/Stormlands/Westerlands/Vale alliance so I'm not seeing victory there either. Viserys was a child hiding in Essos he couldn't do anything. I suppose Viserys was too young, but there was the guy with the red door.And balon sent letters to Tyrion Tywin and Cersei. No reason to think he didn't ask for help the first time. In probability Mance puffed up and went to Robert on his knees with Redwyne ships and Doran held vengeance in his heart excusing himself with talks of Nymeria and ship burning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petyr's Little Finger Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Balon was just a fool he is lucky that Robert didn't kill him, tear down his castle etc. One thing that can be said about him is that at least he chose the right time to attack the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fear of Drowning Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Honestly, his second rebellion wasn't a bad plan. If Balon hadn't been killed by his brother and the faceless men, Victarion and Moat Cailin would have kept the northern armies to the South and the Ironborn would still rule the western coast of the North. Still he should have looked for allies. IMO the Wildlings were the obvious choice. Had the Ironborn taken Eastwatch or the Shadow Tower from The Watch (easy work, ~200 men each and no defenses from the south), enabling the Wildling Invasion the North would have been in real trouble. Could probably have got the best Wildling warriors as direct vassals by supplying them with Ironborn Iron and Steel. Also he should have reinforced Theon, dammit. Balon wasn't ambitious enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Honestly, his second rebellion wasn't a bad plan. If Balon hadn't been killed by his brother and the faceless men, Victarion and Moat Cailin would have kept the northern armies to the South and the Ironborn would still rule the western coast of the North. Until Manderly transported the Northmen with his newly built fleet. From the North, Moat Cailin is a piece of cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Until Manderly transported the Northmen with his newly built fleet. From the North, Moat Cailin is a piece of cake. Actually, its not. Nowhere near as hard to assault as it is from the south, true, but not a piece of cake by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Balon was just a fool he is lucky that Robert didn't kill him, tear down his castle etc. One thing that can be said about him is that at least he chose the right time to attack the North. I'm not sure killing Balons the right move. It would just piss off the ironborn more and create anarchy. Besides many Ironborn think like Balon and the next ruler would be just as nuts.Honestly, his second rebellion wasn't a bad plan. If Balon hadn't been killed by his brother and the faceless men, Victarion and Moat Cailin would have kept the northern armies to the South and the Ironborn would still rule the western coast of the North. Still he should have looked for allies. IMO the Wildlings were the obvious choice. Had the Ironborn taken Eastwatch or the Shadow Tower (easy work, like 200 men each and no defenses from the south) from the watch to enable the Wildling Invasion the North would have been in real trouble. Also he should have reinforced Theon, dammit.Ironborn at the wall! Lol that'd be crazy. I wonder what commander Pyke would have to say about thatRobb had a plan to take Cailin from the south, so he probably would have but never RooseAnd it was on Asha to not reinforce Winterfell. Whether it's because of a stupid war strategy or because she doesn't want her baby brother to gain favor, it was a loss for Balon. I wonder though, if Ramsay took care of the loyalists could Theon just not have opened the gates to Bolton?PsBalon also defeated the Maesters and the sept Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fear of Drowning Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 As of Dance, the Manderly fleet is still under construction. IIRC these are warships, not transports. I sincerely doubt they could carry even a small fraction of the Northern army which went south. In asoiaf, logistics are relatively realistic and don't work like a videogame. In any case, with Balon still living, armistice terms would likely have been reached before the ships are even finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dragon Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Pretty sure its said Balon was outnumbered 10 to 1, which imo was such terrible odds that only an idiot wouldn't bet on them. Not to mention his rebellion cemented robert's rule and loyalties, since robert so easily made good friends in the midst of war. The seven kingdoms (with the exception of dorne) were cemented under robert as they had a common enemy. And who would help the ironborn with these odds? Everyone hates the ironborn, and you can't blame them. They come reave and rape along almost every kingdom's shores then run away with their prize. Balon was a fool to think he could have won that rebellion, and he was lucky that robert didn't have his head and tear down his castle. His second rebellion was much smarter, in that he was attacking a fragmented kingdom, the most undefended with an army which had already gone south. Though that too probably wouldn't have kept, the ironborn aren't people meant to hold kingdoms, the sea is where they are strongest. I think it was said Balon did try and seek an alliance with Tywin, but they already had done the job of cutting off the north, why then make any sort of deal with them if Tywin already got what he wanted? He should have started with that tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Well let's see. He launches a rebellion against a unified Seven Kingdoms with no allies. He acts like it's his own son's fault for being taken hostage, when it is actually Balon's. He treats his son like scum because, surprisingly to nobody to has all of their brain cells intact, he behaves somewhat like a greenlander after living in the greenlands for half of his life. He then launches a second rebellion, this time at least against an easier target. But he attacks the only other leader who wants independent kingdoms again. It's not a great resume, to be honest. And the man comes across as a complete tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Ugh....now I've seen everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOT A TARG I SWEAR Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 In a field filled with plenty of stupid rulers, I have an appreciation for Balon's ability to stand out as among the stupidest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 So after his spectacular failure during his first attempt to seize a crown Balon's second he decides to attack the only other separatist movement from the Iron Throne. Yeah, good call. But hey you got revenge on people who had nothing to do with your first rebellion's failure, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I still can't believe Robert never called the lords paramount to the capitol to swear him fealty when he took the throne. What a moron. But it is a good explanation for Balon being allowed to continue to live after the first rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fear of Drowning Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 So after his spectacular failure during his first attempt to seize a crown Balon's second he decides to attack the only other separatist movement from the Iron Throne. Yeah, good call. But hey you got revenge on people who had nothing to do with your first rebellion's failure, right? He attacked the people who were obviously going to lose. Peoples emotional investment in the Starks often blinds them to how the odds were stacked against them. Balon learned his lessons from the first rebellion. Also, it was northerners who killed two of Balons sons and kidnapped the third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bironic Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 In a field filled with plenty of stupid rulers, I have an appreciation for Balon's ability to stand out as among the stupidest. Everybody has its qualities. ;) The main fault of the Ironborn is that they don't make allies through marriages/hostages. If he sided with the Martells/Viserys/GC/Targ Loyalists during the first rebellion he could have had much more success. In his second Rebellion he should have contacted Tywin first, before he attacked the north and made an alliance with him. Something like you grant me flints finger, Bear Island and Sea Dragon Point when I help you take the northerners down. And to seal the pact a marriage between Lancel and Asha and between Balon/Victarion and Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 He attacked the people who were obviously going to lose. Peoples emotional investment in the Starks often blinds them to how the odds were stacked against them. Balon learned his lessons from the first rebellion. Also, it was northerners who killed two of Balons sons and kidnapped the third. I think the general consensus is that Robb was doing really well until Theon's mission failed and the Ironborn invaded the North and captured Winterfell. Roose certainly gives Theon a lot of credit for Robb's downfall when they speak. Also, if Theon never kills "Bran and Rickon" then Robb isn't devastated and doesn't bone Jeyne Westerling. Red Wedding probably averted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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