Biggest show failures over Seasons 1-4

[Aemon's counsel]

first, i am curious how that scene keeps getting interpreted as rape as you can clearly see her gripping him and responding to the point that she has her legs wrapped around him....in addition he had one fucking hand and for at least the time it takes to untie his pants and whip old stumpy out he has no hand to grip her...if she wanted to stop, why didn't she use that opportunity to twist away...just saying

Cersei said no, multiple times, and Jaime persisted. That's enough to make Jaime's actions rape - even if Cersei later relents and enjoys having sex with Jaime.

Cersei's gripping of Jaime looks to me as much like struggling to get away as it does her being responsive and, having just re-watched the scene, the vast majority of her other actions, right up until the end of the scene, make it look like she's struggling to get away. I'm in work so I couldn't watch with audio, but from what I remember she's saying 'no' right up until the end of the scene too.

As for why she didn't strategically take advantage of various moments to stop Jaime from doing what he was doing, well, it could be that, she lacked the presence of mind given that she was in the middle of being assaulted. And whether or not something is rape isn't dependent on how hard or how well the victim resisted it, but rather on whether or not the victim gave consent, which she didn't, and whether or not the aggressor persisted in spite of that, which he did.

And to whoever mentioned this in the first place, I'd say yea, this was the biggest failure the show has made so far. It derailed Jaime's character development and made me (and lots of others) feel pretty sour towards those in the cast and crew who defended the scene as not being rape. And it also drove me mad to see people defending the scene, and saying that it's stupid to complain about a rape scene in a show where there are loads of awful murders and beheadings and torturings etc., completely missing the point that it's not that people object to rape being depicted in a drama, but rather that people object to seeing a rape depicted that then isn't acknowledged as being such by either the creators or by the story following it in the show. It sends a confusing message to people about what 'counts' as rape, when rape is already something that lots of don't fully understand, to the detriment of people who are sexually assaulted. You can say what you like about the beatings, murders and dismemberment, but at least if someone gets their arm chopped off or their head smashed in then everyone's in agreement about what happened, and the unfortunate character doesn't appear in the next episode completely intact.

So, yea, this scene gave me a major headache, and was the beginning of the end of my enjoyment of the show (the end of the end being S04E10 - 'The Children' - ugh).

[JonSnow4President]

Show failure. Mance's death. (book spoilers)

Unless I am massively missing something, no indication he's not really Mance, no indication Melisandre is working some stuff up. One of the more interesting characters in the books for me. Really wanted to see that on the screen.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Cersei said no, multiple times, and Jaime persisted. That's enough to make Jaime's actions rape - even if Cersei later relents and enjoys having sex with Jaime.

Cersei's gripping of Jaime looks to me as much like struggling to get away as it does her being responsive and, having just re-watched the scene, the vast majority of her other actions, right up until the end of the scene, make it look like she's struggling to get away. I'm in work so I couldn't watch with audio, but from what I remember she's saying 'no' right up until the end of the scene too.

...

And to whoever mentioned this in the first place, I'd say yea, this was the biggest failure the show has made so far.

This is exactly what happens in the books, so why is a failure of the Show only??

IMO what Jaime did was very gross in the books as well, regardless of whether Cersei "really wanted it". As you correctly point out It's not like her finally saying yes at the last second undoes his brazenly pushing past the first 10 no's.

[Bobby b's bobby]

Because the latest episode reminded me: Show Brienne. Everything about Show Brienne.

-Retarded show-only fight with the Hound.

-Very rude and mean-spirited in general. She's just not likeable.

-I can't recall her actually doing anything that could really be called "heroic".

-Goes to the North and Vale for derpy reasons rather than stay in the Riverlands.

-Oh, and she's twice the age of her book counterpart. Just thought I'd nitpick that.

This times 58 everytime she's on screen I want to change the channel and I kinda like book brienne but show brienne is completely different and none of her differences are for the better.

[Hot Meat Pie]

John Snow - Ygritte scenes

Bran rickon osha hodor jewjen and his sister scenes

[The One And Only]

Wow, I didn't realize how bad this show was until I read this thread. It must have no viewers and be a complete mess based on what I read here.

Book purists are an interesting subset of GOT fans....

The show isn't perfect, but wow it is mostly amazing. The only thing I wasn't a huge fan of was Dany in Qarth.... but even that wasn't that bad.

[Hot Meat Pie]

Brienne Hound fight was also crap.

[Red Raven]

- "Whar iz mah draguns!" (House of the Undying)

- Podrick the sex god

- The rape-a-thon that was season 4: Cersei, the attempt on Meera

- The whole thing of Bran and pals running into Karl Tanner and his lot. A waste of time that did nothing to move the story forward

- Based on previews and reviews, Ellaria and the Sand Snakes appear to be dismal failures

- The character assassination of Loras

- Osha and her constant bitching at Meera. She sucks.

- Tyrion's story about the crushed bugs. Too damn long.

- Cutting out any mention of Tysha when Tyrion shot Tywin. Maybe the writers would have had time to include it if they weren't so giddy about crushed bugs.

[Good Guy Garlan]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that one of the biggest failures wasn't D&D's fault: splitting aSoS in two seasons instead of doing it in one

It fucked up the chronology and was the cause of many resulting problems

[magic713]

I wonder if anyone has tried to time seasons 3 & 4 to see if it's possible to cut out the extra filler stuff (such as Theon's torture stuff porn, Tyrion jail cell scenes, Yara's visit to Dreadfort etc.) and see if it was possible to merge the seasons into one.

[Good Guy Garlan]

^ Someone should. I think it's possible, to be honest, even if the high end of some storylines have to be pushed to the beginning of the next season

[Cas Stark]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that one of the biggest failures wasn't D&D's fault: splitting aSoS in two seasons instead of doing it in one

It fucked up the chronology and was the cause of many resulting problems

Nah, trying do do that entire book in 10 episodes, it would be impossible. That isn't the problem. The problem is poor planning in how they fit it all together. They should be writing one season but they still need to be doing some kind of basic skeleton outline for the next one to make sure stuff is going to work and flow.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Nah, trying do do that entire book in 10 episodes, it would be impossible. That isn't the problem. The problem is poor planning in how they fit it all together. They should be writing one season but they still need to be doing some kind of basic skeleton outline for the next one to make sure stuff is going to work and flow.

I don't know, I think the bulk of aSoS would fit in 10 episodes alright. Of course, scrapping things like Theon's torture porn, and the huge focus on KL.

I tend to think that trying to make something fit in a certain number of episodes could be ultimately better than stretching that something over a number of episodes. Stretching means filler, after all.

[Typhoon Swell]

Bloodraven sucked. He's supposed to be far more ancient and decrepit, barely human. Instead we got crippled Dumbledore stuck in a tree.

Okay, not a major problem, but it still bugs me.

[rayarts]

Agreed. I don't really have a problem with much else. I mean all they had to do was slip in a little "yes" by Cersei towards the end of the scene so we know she wants it too.

I am actually surprised that people mind that Jamie "rape" scene... I never saw it as rape.

I thought that Cersei was struggling, yes, but that she did not really mind or she would have

put some real effort into her "fighting".

Nope, no rape scene for me.

[kimim]

Talisa sucked

Cutting most of the prophecy in the HotU

Cutting Tysha, having Jaime and Tyrion hug and kiss like brothers who adore one another before Tyrion leaves KL. Insanity.

EDIT: I'm surprised people didn't like Brienne meeting Sandor. Using that to end part I of Brienne's quest was (imo) better than the book, where she goes nowhere, fights a few nobodies. Here, she meets Arya, beats the HOUND. I loved it.

[Red Raven]

Talisa sucked

Oh yes, I forgot about Talisa. She did suck. She was exactly the sort of character Martin thought was unrealistic for his books: a woman of lower status getting shirty with a king and getting away with it instead of being killed or at least put in the stocks.

[Aemon's counsel]

I am actually surprised that people mind that Jamie "rape" scene... I never saw it as rape.

I thought that Cersei was struggling, yes, but that she did not really mind or she would have

put some real effort into her "fighting".

Nope, no rape scene for me.

I am actually surprised that people consider that Ned was 'executed'... I never saw it as execution.

Ned didn't look happy about it, yes, but he didn't really seem to mind or he would have

put some real effort into escaping.

Nope, no execution scene for me.

[i_am_no_one]

I am actually surprised that people consider that Ned was 'executed'... I never saw it as execution.

Ned didn't look happy about it, yes, but he didn't really seem to mind or he would have

put some real effort into escaping.

Nope, no execution scene for me.

Well played.

[Typhoon Swell]

Meh, the cast and crew involved admitted it was awkwardly filmed but was never meant to be presented as a rape scene. The characters don't consider it rape. So, it wasn't rape. Trying to continually make controversy over it is just thickheaded at this point.