Biggest show failures over Seasons 1-4

[Daske]

Okay well if you think clues is better than actually showing the sack of the place many fans care most about in the North then I won't argue.

My point is we are not "left without a clue how Winterfell was sacked". As the compilation shows there were lots of clues as to how it happened and who was responsible. They didn't just forget to explain it

[A Wolf Among Sheep]

For what similar reasons? Did that distant cousin endanger Cersei's life? :dunno:

He killed Alton so he could escape and return to the love of his life.

[Toyota]

Lack of Iron Island scenes no Victarion and Euron. Nuff' said.

[Prince Lou of House Reed]

Okay sorry they explained it I guess, I just wish we could have seen it play out like the books we differ in opinion.

[HousePotterz]

• Cutting the Battle of the Fist of the First Men (would it really have been that difficult to have the NW fight a bunch of wights and then flee?)

• Jaime killing his cousin

• No Coldhands

• Portraying Qhorin as a grumpy old man who berates Jon, instead of wise and grounded shaman-like leader who inspires Jon

• Cutting Jon's warging and further story arc from Season 2

• Cutting (or delaying) Jon's deep bond with Ghost

• The general lack of direwolves

• Miscasting Ramsay Snow (Iwan is doing the best he can, but Ramsay is an ugly, vicious ogre with zero charm)

• The juvenile obsession with Theon's severed penis

• Portraying Jaime as a sexual predator, screwing up his redemption and especially his character development (upon returning to King's Landing, Jaime is much more introverted and hardly anyone recognizes him anymore, ie he stands at the back of the Throne Room during Tyrion's trial; he still has his wit and humour, but he's drastically changed)

• Tyrell overkill. Way, way, way too much Olenna, Margaery and Loras chatting, sitting around in the gardens, and doing nothing in King's Landing. Booooooooooring.

• That horrible rape scene in Craster's Keep after the mutineers took it over.

• The fight scene in the kennels between Yara and the Ironborn and Ramsay and the Dreadfort soldiers, and then running from the dogs, when they easily could have killed them. Awkward.

• Portraying Dany as an obnoxious, annoying idiot. I never liked her character much in ASOIAF, but in the show she's unbearable. (Perhaps with Benioff and Weiss portraying her with such poor judgment and leadership skills, she doesn't have what it takes to rule Westeros and are therefore hinting she won't make it?)

• Way too much dragons. Especially at the expense of the direwolves.

• No Lady Stoneheart and the BWB on a rampage in the Riverlands. Perhaps she might make a surprise appearance this season, or show up in Season 6 when Walder Frey is set to return, but who knows with Benioff and Weiss.

• No Nymeria and a huge pack of wolves tearing people to shreds in the Riverlands.

• Might not get a Jaime/Blackfish showdown at Riverrun.

• Balon Greyjoy still alive all throughout Season 4.

• No Victarion and Euron (yet). Hopefully both won't get cut. Badass mofos to the max.

• The Missandei/Greyworm romance. Who gives a crap.

• Killing off Jojen, Grenn and Pipp.

• The absurd skeletons and fire bombs fight scene when Bran makes it to the One Eyed Raven.

• The cheesy final scenes in the Season 3 and 4 finales (Dany bodysurfing and Arya riding off into the sunset, could have had Stoneheart instead).

Benioff + Weiss = :bang:

This post is exemplary. Exemplary in the sense that it perfectly displays the attitude of those holier-than-thou book readers who are just looking for a scene for scene recreation of what's in the books.

1.) Cutting the battle at the Fist was a financial decision. Battle scenes require huge amounts of coordination, large numbers of extras, CGI, and other logistical considerations. They omitted the Battle of Green Fork/Whispering Wood in Season 1 for the same reason. If you can't accept that things need to be cut for financial and/or practical reasons, why do you watch? You're setting yourself up for disappointment.

2.) Jaime killing his cousin. I believe the title of that episode was 'A Man Without Honor.' What is considered less honorable than kinslaying in this fictitious world? Jaime killing his cousin was meant to be the rock-bottom of dishonor that Jaime reached before embarking with Brienne and beginning his redemption arc.

3.) No Coldhands. Sure, I agree he is a cool character, but isn't he just a gimmick in the books, up to this point at least? What narrative purpose does he serve? He guides Bran to Bloodraven. Given that the showrunners know the ending/main story arcs, if Coldhands was someone very important, or had more important things to do in the future story, he'd be included. If all he was to do was to be this mysterious undead ranger who leads Team Bran to Bloodraven, why is the vision from the weirwood any less effective?

4.) Qorin Halfhand. That's your interpretation of Halfhand. The showrunners might have a different interpretation. And also, in the relatively few scenes we had with Halfhand, he was wise, and he was imparting important knowledge on Jon. Remember, "the second you think you know this land, it'll kill you."

5-6.) Jon & Ghost. We don't know yet for certain that Jon being a warg is critical for the story. It is HEAVILY implied that it will be, but the showrunners may be keeping it entirely under wraps until it happens. After all, book Jon knows that he is having "wolf dreams" as Ghost, just like Arya is for Nymeria, but he isn't at the warging level Bran is at where he can assume control of Ghost at will. If he wargs into Ghost after his assassination, I would bet good money we'll see it on TV as well, and it'll come as a total shock to Unsullied viewers who will think, "whoa, Jon can do that too!"

7.) Lack of direwolves. What??? They've shown a lot of the Stark direwolves. How much do you really need?

8.) Ramsay casting. Your opinion. Many people think Iwan is a great portrayal of Ramsay. If your main complaint is that he doesn't look exactly like the Ramsay you pictured, well that's holding the showrunners to an impossible level of fidelity to your own imagination/interpretation.

9.) Theon's castration. What's juvenile about it? Ramsay torments him with two beautiful women (a weakness of Theon's, he knows), and then takes away his "favorite part." Then he sends it to his family with a threat of more if they don't abandon the North...am I missing something? Sure it's more overt than it is in the books, but how it could be described as juvenile is confusing. Terrible, sure, no argument there.

10.) Jaime. One of the few complaints I share with you. Jaime is one of GRRM's most complex characters, so I don't find it hard to believe there have been missteps in his character development. I would hardly call him a sexual predator, though. The sept scene is without doubt the most visible error the show has made thus far. I have seen all the commentaries by the director, actors, etc., who say it wasn't filmed as a rape scene, but I agree with most viewers when they say that the scene we watched was a rape. Whether that was the fault of the director or the editors, or the showrunners who bear responsibility for all of it, is a matter that's up for debate. Whether it was a grave error and regression of Jaime's character is not, so much.

11.) Tyrells. Once again, your complaints are mostly your opinion. Olenna is one of the show's most loved characters. A lot of people were happy to see her in the trailer for this coming season. The only scene that she is in that seems unnecessary in hindsight is her talk with Varys regarding Littlefinger's duplicitousness, but that may have been integral in her seeking him out as a partner in Joffrey's assassination.

12.) Craster's arc in S4. I agree, it was overkill. The intention was to show how depraved these mutineers were, but it went pretty thick on the sexual exploitation of Craster's wifedaughters. As far as the arc itself, I didn't have a major problem with it, regarding Jon Snow's arc over the season. The main issue I had with it was their inclusion of the Bran/Locke thread, which seemed extraneous. Bran had already had a close call with Jon and decided that revealing himself as being alive and heading north was too risky, why have him do it again? But wiping out the mutineers at Craster's is actually, as I see it, a good thought by the showrunners, as that plot point was sort of left hanging in the books after Sam flees.

13.) Yara/Dreadfort raid. Yeah, I won't argue on this one. It seemed like Bran and Locke at Craster's in the sense of giving plot to characters just for the sake of keeping them in the viewer's radar. I never much cared for the name change either. Some things need to be simplified for the Unsullied viewer, but I'm fairly sure they can tell the difference between vowels...Osha. Asha. Osha. Asha. Got it.

14.) Dany. I thought they've handled Dany's character development well over the first 3 seasons. It was only starting in season 4, and now according to the trailers, she'll do it again in Season 5, where she is boasting of "breaking wheels" and "living in my new world" that she has gotten a bit...boastful. Dany's arc in ADWD is fairly subtle, so I'll be interested to see what they have in store for her this season.

15.) Too many dragon scenes, too few direwolf scenes. Sounds like one man's (or woman's) opinion.

16.) Lady Stoneheart. At least you acknowledge the possibility she could appear, but your complaints are again, mostly based upon your opinion and interpretation of what and who is "important" in the story. The show HAS to cut characters. The Unsullied viewer has no reference section at the back of a book to refer to, just their memories. And many of those memories are already being stretched. GoT has a cast that is orders of magnitude larger than most other TV shows. Plotlines and characters will be changed and omitted depending on their bearing upon the final outcome, which the showrunners and GRRM, and no one else, know. If book-reading show-watchers can't accept that, the last two seasons will probably not be kind to you...

17.) Nymeria in the Riverlands. This is your most frivolous complaint yet. What bearing have these wolves even had in the books yet? Why should we have a scene establishing that Arya's old direwolf is tearing shit up in the Riverlands, and then what...not see them again for two or three seasons? Then you would probably complain that they're like Gendry, still rowing. I'd be willing to bet they will have a role in the future, but no one knows for sure except GRRM and D&D.

18.) Jaime/Blackfish. Do we need that scene? Or do you just like it? There is a difference.

19-20.) Balon Greyjoy/Euron/Victarion. As with Nymeria and her wolves, what is the point of an establishing scene showing Balon's death if you don't plan on ever following up on that with the Iron Islands plotline from FeastDance? Or even if you are, but not for another three or four seasons? Wouldn't it make more sense to include that scene, as with Lady Stoneheart, as with Nymeria, as with Aegon, or anything else we think they're omitting, when you plan to use that plotline over the course of a season?

21.) Missandei/Grey Worm. Clearly you don't give a crap, but may I offer this thought? Not everyone feels the same way.

22.) Jojen/Grenn/Pyp. Refer to my above comment about shrinking the number of characters the audience is dealing with. GRRM can go on for pages about every person attending a kingsmoot, for example, but when you watch a visual adaptation of said event, no one is saying all their names, you have to go on memory. So, at Castle Black, there aren't as many characters there the show has introduced as there are in the books (Satin, Donal Noye, etc.). The Battle of Castle Black would seem like a cakewalk if no one the audience recognized was lost there, correct? Hence why we lost Pyp and Grenn. Recognizable characters the audience would feel a sense of loss over if and when they died.

23.) Fireballs/Skeletons. I won't argue that it wasn't the most overtly fantasy scene in the whole series thus far, but I have a feeling Bran's whole arc is going to get very fantasy from here on out. It's also amusing to point out that you find direwolves awesome, are ambivalent on dragons, and think that reanimated skeletons and fireball shooting elves are stupid. Do you see how maybe catering to any given person's whims and opinions is an exercise in futility?

24.) Final scenes in Seasons 3 and 4. I'll agree with you on Season 3, I thought that was sort of an odd way to end the season, but I wouldn't call it total crap either. Season 4's ending was fine. Again, what is the point of revealing Lady Stoneheart at that point if you aren't going to use her character again until Season 6? Instead, they showed a great scene with Arya literally and figuratively looking ahead to Braavos and forgetting the nightmare she's lived in Westeros for the past four seasons.

In sum: please stop watching this show. You clearly like the books more, and there's no problem with that. But you cannot realistically expect the showrunners to make a 100% true representation of it for a TV audience.

[Dofs]

He killed Alton so he could escape and return to the love of his life.

In what world is it a "similar reason"?

[A Wolf Among Sheep]

In what world is it a "similar reason"?

All I meant was that Cersei was the main force behind his decision to kill Alton. He was desperate to escape and reunite with her, since I imagine being away from her so long was killing him. I suppose he imagined she felt the same way, which would explain his astonishment when she seemed indifferent to his return, followed by his exclamation, "I've killed people for you."

[Dofs]

All I meant was that Cersei was the main force behind his decision to kill Alton. He was desperate to escape and reunite with her, since I imagine being away from her so long was killing him. I suppose he imagined she felt the same way, which would explain his astonishment when she seemed indifferent to his return, followed by his exclamation, "I've killed people for you."

Right, I know why he did it in the show, as it was flat out said why. That's still not something book Jaime would have ever done. First of all, comparing the situation with Alton with the situation with Bran is wrong - the situations are incomparable, the fact that he tried to kill a kid to save the love of his life does not mean he would start killing people just to see her. Second, in the book Jaime actually was in similar situation - he was with his captor whom he hated and who hated him and Jaime desperately wanted to get away from this captor. And once he had a chance - the captor was at his mercy and Jaime was ready to get rid of him. But he didn't. His hands would just not do it. So he couldn't kill Brienne - his enemy, when she was defenseless and at his mercy, but he could kill his actual relative, a boy who was just telling him how much he admired Jaime? No. And also book Jaime would have never tried to sweet talk anyone into stopping to pay attention just to treacherously and unexpectedly kill him. That's very OOC for Jaime. And not only in the books, it was actually established in the show as well, when he refused to kill Ned, pierced by a spear (by the way, that fight scene also was also one of the many wtf show scenes that includes Jaime).

[jbob]

I just finished ACOK. There's barely any difference between book and show Halfhand. He's just as unmemorable in the books as he is in the show. I think some of you guys imagine more than what's there and then get upset about when they don't adapt your version of the book. The only stuff that's not there is all that mountain climbing and the dream scene. and that's basically it. And we don't get any thoughts from Jon calling Halfhand a legend a couple of times. For a legendary character he doesn't do all that much.

And what's the problem with fireballs and skeletons? What?! At least explain why? Skeletons are in the book. Okay they're wights. But still. They've been there a long time, plus jumping out would've torn their flesh off, hence, skeletons. And the fireball, the COTF light them on fire as well. Yeah, they don't use fireballs they use magic but still. I read someone say the problem with the fireballs is they add a plothole because it means the COTF should've easily defeated them. But if they can magically make wights spontaneously combust, doesn't that also add a plothole? At least with the fireballs you can imagine them running out. Combined with how few COTF there were.

[messem]

And what's the problem with fireballs and skeletons? What?! At least explain why? Skeletons are in the book. Okay they're wights. But still. They've been there a long time, plus jumping out would've torn their flesh off, hence, skeletons. And the fireball, the COTF light them on fire as well. Yeah, they don't use fireballs they use magic but still.

It is a personal matter and very in the eye of the beholder but it looked wrong. I know, I know, at the end of the day it is fantasy show and they can literally do whatever they want but TO ME it felt visually wrong. Bran and Co. didn't encounter much magic before that scene. No door beneath the Nightfort*. No coldhands. No wights. Suddenly, 200 feet from their destination they encounter Harryhausen skeletons (a kind of wights which weren't introduced before) and a mystical being which throws fireballs like a girl**. It felt out of place.

So, it comes down to taste. I'm fully aware of that. And yet the amount of complaints about that scene shows that I am not alone with that.

* Adding another failure: I still want to know why the wildlings didn't march trough that huge tunnel which was way to big to be a secret. If you add a secret passage make it look hidden. From BOTH sides.

** Which shouldn't be problem since she is a girl but here as well: it looked weird.

[TheWeepingKnight]

Show apologia...

[Darkbringer]

Biggest dissapointment for me: stuffing up the Tywin Tyrion exchange and also Shae going for the knife (part of the annoying Tyrion whitewash, God forbid a dwarf does anything evil in Liberal Hollywood)

Also the diminuation by any means necessary of Stannis. I think even GRRM is a bit put off by this.

Evidence?

1. "Blackwater", written by GRRM portrays Stannis as a badass, beyond what is in the books.

2. GRRM goes out of his way to tell us in the DVD extras the real reason why Stannis attacks the wildlings. Which he had to do because D&D are haters and wont include it. Or the peach conversations. Or anything which makes stannis look good.

[Darkbringer]

And the Missandei/ Greyworm thing is annoying, and kinda soft racism as well. So the only black people in this whole world have to have a relationship with each other, do they?

[Daske]

So you go from saying they are too liberal to being too racist within two posts/1 minute?

(Nathalie Emmanuel is mixed race by the way, does that make the relationship 'allowed'?).

[Arkash]

I only have two main regrets :

- Jon's season 2 arc. I loved that desperate run in the books, until there were only the two of them and Qorin asked Jon to kill him. I understand the need to flesh out Jon and Ygritte relationship more but I think it could have waited a little bit.

- But my main point is the downplay of the direwolves so far. I understand they're way more complicated than dragons to render but I really wish Ghost will be by Jon's side the whole season 5 !

EDIT : but that's not as much failures as it is personal tastes ! :)

[Dronuspk]

^ Yes. Early Jon was a bit rushed in some places and drawn out in others. Could have been handled a bit better heh.

[Arkash]

Yeah, and after all I know that a lot of it is due to shooting in difficult conditions in Iceland, so I forgive it entirely.

Still, I hope more budget was devoted to the direwolves. Ghost involvment in the battle at Castle Black was ridiculous. It would have been a nightmare to get him top rip throats right and left in wide shots, but I think more could have been done.

Like for Summer against the skeletons... he takes down one and that's it... he's the one who should have been protecting the pack most !!!

[Cas Stark]

I just finished ACOK. There's barely any difference between book and show Halfhand. He's just as unmemorable in the books as he is in the show. I think some of you guys imagine more than what's there and then get upset about when they don't adapt your version of the book. The only stuff that's not there is all that mountain climbing and the dream scene. and that's basically it. And we don't get any thoughts from Jon calling Halfhand a legend a couple of times. For a legendary character he doesn't do all that much.

And what's the problem with fireballs and skeletons? What?! At least explain why? Skeletons are in the book. Okay they're wights. But still. They've been there a long time, plus jumping out would've torn their flesh off, hence, skeletons. And the fireball, the COTF light them on fire as well. Yeah, they don't use fireballs they use magic but still. I read someone say the problem with the fireballs is they add a plothole because it means the COTF should've easily defeated them. But if they can magically make wights spontaneously combust, doesn't that also add a plothole? At least with the fireballs you can imagine them running out. Combined with how few COTF there were.

You barely know who the Halfhand is in the show, if you blink you miss him. And in the books he is MUCH more subtle of a leader than in the show, e.g. he purposely lets Jon "kill" Ygritte to see what he will do in the book, not as in the show, where despite being the best ranger ever, he's apparently totally hapless and clueless. They do nothing in the show to develop this relationship or make it stand out at all.

The fireballs and skeletons were deeply cheesy. Not only did they not fit with the general look and feel of the show, which goes very light on special effects, but they were crazily inconsistent with the rest of the plot. if the children can hurl firebombs like that, then what's the problem? they should have been able to defeat humans easily. the skeletons were Just Really Cheesy.

[Dronuspk]

Like for Summer against the skeletons... he takes down one and that's it... he's the one who should have been protecting the pack most !!!

This even more so than Ghost for me. Because where in the hell was he the rest of the time?

[MountainThatSkates]

All direwolves as discussed.

Cutting Victarion and Euron.

Sticking to the concept that potentially 7 books means 7 seasons. As others mentioned a character like Qhorin Halfhand is a nobody in the show. For example, we're nerding it up and having people dress up in costumes for our premiere party and someone is coming as Halfhand and we had to remind all of our "show only" friends just who Qhorin was.

D&D almost remind me of someone who only read Dany, Tyrion, and Stark chapters. Like if they saw a Brienne, Sam or Davos chapter they would just skip ahead to the next Tyrion chapter.

D&D didn't need to limit the series to seven seasons. They choose to. HBO gave True Blood 7 seasons, and it became ridiculous after 2. Game of Thrones easily could have been set up with the idea of 10 seasons, but they really wanted to get to the Red Wedding as quickly as possible.