exigez Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 I was being half-sarcastic. Those who deny Dany's claim, wouldn't deny a Stark claim of Winterfell. Targaryen and Stark are in the same situation, they are both exiled houses. And in both cases their people would gladly choose them over others (and Others) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 We all know Stannis and his feelings about his duty. He Spoke at length about his dilemmas with supporting Robert over his rightful king with Davos. What would he do when Daenerys presents herself? She clearly has the better claim (if we ommit (f)Aegon), or at least a claim he cannot dismiss as illegal. From my understanding of the man, he will give up his claim and support her even to a point he would believe he has to be punished for usurping the throne. Any other thoughts? No. Baratheon line is all that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 No. Baratheon line is all that counts. That's true. At least if you love Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Stannis would only give his rights to his daughter or to a true-born son of Robert´s... that´s it, he knows about Dany since she was a baby, he went after her in Dragonstone... House Baratheon are the current royal family since the 7 kingdoms pledge them fielty... Dany has to win the throne back, wich by the looks of things she will... Strange to me is the significance of her Dragons, unless they are as powerfull as Tolkien´s, i don´t see major problems to an army of archery rangers with poisoned arrows to take them out... REALLY, to me, they don´t look THAT difficult to killShe might bring a big army aswell, and that would be a problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Onion Kniggit Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Well, she IS a Tragarian with dragons, and if she lands after the threat from the north becomes imminent all of the above arguments raised here against her claim will be null. Cuz she has dragons that roast Others. Everybody will tally to her.I do believe that unlike other high born lords , Staniss is what he is. He is 'by the books' to a fault, and honest on top of that. But acknowledging Danny puts him and his house in mortal peril. This is a hard question to crack. Last time I checked, Dragons weren't needed to defeat the Others. Bran will probably play the biggest role if anything. Also Stannis is hardly "by the books to a fault" as much as some of his fans, detractors or even he himself might believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 The Iron Throne is held by House Baratheon. The Targs were forced from power in Robert's Rebellion. Dany has no legal claim to the Throne for Stannis to recognize. Any argument to the contrary is not based in law. That's why Dany will have to reclaim the Throne for House Targaryen, with fire and blood if necessary. Hypothetically, if Aegon is genuine he has a better claim than Dany would if the Targs were in line for succession to the Throne. As would Jon if R+J=J is true and Jon is legitimate. (But they don't have dragons. Dragons can trump lines of succession under the ancient principle of Might makes Right.)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I was being half-sarcastic. Those who deny Dany's claim, wouldn't deny a Stark claim of Winterfell. Targaryen and Stark are in the same situation, they are both exiled houses. They have the same claim to whatever seat they once occupied. Not parallel situations. House Stark wasn't abolished or deprived of Winterfell. The title of Warden of the North (or whatever) was taken from the Starks and given to the Boltons. To acquire Winterfell Ramsay had to marry a "Stark". In contrast, the Targaryen King was killed, the Crown Prince was killed, all heirs fled the realm and a new House legally installed as rulers of the Seven Kingdoms. Legally, if Tyrion hadn't been attainted he would have a better claim to Winterfell through his marriage to Sansa, who is senior to Arya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exigez Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Last time I checked, Dragons weren't needed to defeat the Others. Bran will probably play the biggest role if anything. Also Stannis is hardly "by the books to a fault" as much as some of his fans, detractors or even he himself might believe.OK, let's go into it and look at how the dragons hatched:1. Three dragon eggs to the three times AA attempted to forge Lightbringer.2. Kahl Drogo as Nissa Nissa. Danny killed him herself, but more important is the magnitude of her sacrifice: both Drogo's and the baby's death had pushed her into the ritual that hatched the dragons.3. Drogo had kings blood. 4. Danny was born amidst salt and smoke (can either be Dragonston or the funeral pyre)5. The red comment was seen after the hatching.6. She is from Aerys line, and since all her siblings are dead, and her baby (that should have been the stallion), the role past to her.7. Xaro Xhoan Daxos calls her dragons a flamming sword over the world.In Danny we can see that both prophecies (AA & The prince that was promised) are achieved. Even the woman with the tail prophecy (the dragons tail, but that's a bit stretching it).So Yea, its never said that dragons are needed to defet the others but I think THESE dragons are critical. I personally believe they are Lightbringer. And that's gonna make Stan feel like a fraud.Dragons are more than weapons of war (though we don't really know yet how big they'll be when she lands), they will be the final nail in her claim as a true Targ queen. Same as the direwolves, and stronger. When she lands the seven kingdoms will flock to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 OK, let's go into it and look at how the dragons hatched:1. Three dragon eggs to the three times AA attempted to forge Lightbringer.2. Kahl Drogo as Nissa Nissa. Danny killed him herself, but more important is the magnitude of her sacrifice: both Drogo's and the baby's death had pushed her into the ritual that hatched the dragons.3. Drogo had kings blood. 4. Danny was born amidst salt and smoke (can either be Dragonston or the funeral pyre)5. The red comment was seen after the hatching.6. She is from Aerys line, and since all her siblings are dead, and her baby (that should have been the stallion), the role past to her.7. Xaro Xhoan Daxos calls her dragons a flamming sword over the world.In Danny we can see that both prophecies (AA & The prince that was promised) are achieved. Even the woman with the tail prophecy (the dragons tail, but that's a bit stretching it).So Yea, its never said that dragons are needed to defet the others but I think THESE dragons are critical. I personally believe they are Lightbringer. And that's gonna make Stan feel like a fraud.Dragons are more than weapons of war (though we don't really know yet how big they'll be when she lands), they will be the final nail in her claim as a true Targ queen. Same as the direwolves, and stronger. When she lands the seven kingdoms will flock to her.Even the Faith and the Citadel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exigez Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sure. Better a targarian than the armies of the dead, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sure. Better a targarian than the armies of the dead, no?That's assuming the Southrons will believe an army of undead are coming by the time Daenerys arrives for her tango with Aegon (the most pious?) And her wigened demons breathing fire and snatching up little shepherd girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 No. Stannis does not bend and especially he wouldn't bend to someone who had been overthrowned. She clearly has the better claim (if we ommit (f)Aegon), We don't know that. He could be before Dany in the line of succession because he is a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaibaman Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 That's assuming the Southrons will believe an army of undead are coming by the time Daenerys arrives for her tango with Aegon (the most pious?) And her wigened demons breathing fire and snatching up little shepherd girls. When the dragons were around over 100 years ago, how often did the people of Westeros live in fear of dragons coming at them, burning their fields and eating their children? The Targs had over a dozen dragons at one point and the people didn't hate them for it but rather revered their awesome power. Do you think people remember Jaehaerys negatively because he had fire breathing demons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 When the dragons were around over 100 years ago, how often did the people of Westeros live in fear of dragons coming at them, burning their fields and eating their children? The Targs had over a dozen dragons at one point and the people didn't hate them for it but rather revered their awesome power. Do you think people remember Jaehaerys negatively because he had fire breathing demons? Unlike Jaehaerys, Dany cannot control her dragons. She only acquired partial control* over Drogon as of the end of ADwD. * By partial control, I mean Drogon suffers her presence as long as she does not annoy him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 When the dragons were around over 100 years ago, how often did the people of Westeros live in fear of dragons coming at them, burning their fields and eating their children? The Targs had over a dozen dragons at one point and the people didn't hate them for it but rather revered their awesome power. Do you think people remember Jaehaerys negatively because he had fire breathing demons? How about the Storming of the Dragonpit...It was the fear of dragons, and of their presence, that gave birth to the Shepherd. Who he was we cannot say, as his name is lost to history. Some suppose he was a poor beggar, others that he might have been one of the Poor Fellows who, though outlawed, still stubbornly haunted the realm. Whoever he was, he began to preach in the Cobblers Square, saying that the dragons were demons, the spawn of godless Valyria, and the doom of men. Scores listenedthen hundreds, then thousands. Fear begat anger, and anger begat a thirst for blood. And when the Shepherd announced that the city would be saved only when the city was cleansed of dragons, people listened.Aegon II, TWOIAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaibaman Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 How about the Storming of the Dragonpit...Aegon II, TWOIAF How about the Storming of the Dragonpit...Aegon II, TWOIAFOk so because one religious nut feared the dragons and was able to use his demagogue to proselytize a bunch of dumbasses to attack medieval nuclear weapons (who were already chained up and weren't a danger to anyone). That's proof that all of Westeros lived in constant fear of the dragons? I'm sure this wasn't the first overzealous preacher in Planetos who managed to sway people to do crazy shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Ok so because one religious nut feared the dragons and was able to use his demagogue to proselytize a bunch of dumbasses to attack medieval nuclear weapons (who were already chained up and weren't a danger to anyone). That's proof that all of Westeros lived in constant fear of the dragons? I'm sure this wasn't the first overzealous preacher in Planetos who managed to sway people to do crazy shit.I'm sure the people of Westeros were as pleased to live under the shadow of dragons as they were to receive the blessing of dragonseed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I'm sure the people of Westeros were as pleased to live under the shadow of dragons as they were to receive the blessing of dragonseed. For most people, it made very little difference whether their houses and crops would be burned by a dragon, or by a bunch of freeriders with torches. It did make a crucial difference, however, for the likes of Harren the Black. Cry me a fucking river. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Onion Kniggit Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 And that's gonna make Stan feel like a fraud.When she lands the seven kingdoms will flock to her. Stan doesn't care And what lords are those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Golden Fleece Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 All True... Except if R+L were married Jon would be 2nd in line behind his nearly two year older half brother Aegon if he is real. Well no, because bigomy is illegal in Westeros. So a marriage between Rhaegar and Lyanna would be illegal (as his wife was still alive) and Jon still a bastard. But that stop Henry Tudor from taking the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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