Realistically, If The Wall Comes Down, How Does It Happen?

[Quwertzuiopp]

The comet is by far the MOST unrealistic thing to make the wall fall. BY FAR. If a comet crash destroys the wall, I will loose at least 3/4 of my respect for grrm as an author. Remeber that this guy also wrote good sci-fi stuff. He is not the person to make a comet crash on planetos to end the wall, except to kill everyone.

The horn of Joramun is a red herring with 99.9% certinity. It's amazing to me how some people completely discard half of the legends and stories as BS, but believe in the other half religiously. Joramun was just a man, and the Horn might be of similar doubtfull existens as the methaphorical grumpkins and snarks.

Also, most of you have a very unrealistic vision of how the wall will fall. If the wall falls, it won't just instantly burst into milkshake like slush, that would be a massive asspull unseen before from GRRM. It will also no just dissapear. If it's magic is gone, it will just be a normal glacier. It might just even GROW in the winter to come. In the next spring, it will take YEARS to melt all that ice, just like real glaciers don't just instantly turn into water when it gets warm outside. All that cold inside the wall will gradually have to heat up. Sure, the melting water will surely form a few new small rivers and might turn some of the land around the wall into little lakes and badlands, but the floods would be not that bad, after all it will be concentrated water and not massive rain drenching the ground.

Edit: Maybe Joramuns "Horn" was just like Tromunds "Horn" and the legends spun out of controll

[Blazfemur]

The comet is by far the MOST unrealistic thing to make the wall fall. BY FAR. If a comet crash destroys the wall, I will loose at least 3/4 of my respect for grrm as an author. Remeber that this guy also wrote good sci-fi stuff. He is not the person to make a comet crash on planetos to end the wall, except to kill everyone.

The horn of Joramun is a red herring with 99.9% certinity. It's amazing to me how some people completely discard half of the legends and stories as BS, but believe in the other half religiously. Joramun was just a man, and the Horn might be of similar doubtfull existens as the methaphorical grumpkins and snarks.

Also, most of you have a very unrealistic vision of how the wall will fall. If the wall falls, it won't just instantly burst into milkshake like slush, that would be a massive asspull unseen before from GRRM. It will also no just dissapear. If it's magic is gone, it will just be a normal glacier. It might just even GROW in the winter to come. In the next spring, it will take YEARS to melt all that ice, just like real glaciers don't just instantly turn into water when it gets warm outside. All that cold inside the wall will gradually have to heat up. Sure, the melting water will surely form a few new small rivers and might turn some of the land around the wall into little lakes and badlands, but the floods would be not that bad, after all it will be concentrated water and not massive rain drenching the ground.

Edit: Maybe Joramuns "Horn" was just like Tromunds "Horn" and the legends spun out of controll

this is my point exactly that the only way i see destruction of the wall is through something uh... large. like the fricken comet. what other use has that been this entire series other than being a huge red herring swimming through the sky?

how are the Others getting on the other side of that wall, in your eyes. in everyone's eyes. climb over? go under? go through.

possibilities:

1) spiders to go over, Others riding them. not a bad read, in my opinion, interesting debut of ice spiders.

2) go around, in the ocean. good option, and one i dont know why they didnt do earlier. maybe itll get answered. semi-bad read, no confrontation with the watch this way

3) go under. the caves and tunnels, and the gate. TNK is a member of the watch, he can lead his forces through. would be a big FUCK you to the watch, and he'd continue his journey. good read, unpredictable

4) go through, through means of the normal gate. would take a lot of fighting, inevitably i see them winning for a much larger end battle. the watch loses the wall, many die, and become wights. decent read, predictable

5) go through, after the comet hits, driving a huge gape through the wall, it's ice crumbling around it, but some of the wall still intact save for the massive hole it leaves. kills massive amunts of night's watch, who gets resurrected as wights. the night's king simply walks through to mordor with even MORE allies than when he arrived. /endbook6. EXCELLENT read, unpredictable, destroys the wall, and the corrupt watch with it.

[Blazfemur]

in regards to joramun: i just simply think he blew the horn which signaled his forces, and giants were among them, validating "waking giants from the earth."

Furthermore, Joramun and the King of Winter drove back Brandon. He retreated in defeat in exile when winter fell. Winter fell, when he did. How would a loser of this battle gain possession, of the winner's weapon?

[King17]

A certain crippled boy will find the horn in a cave and blow it

[T0ny_Stark]

always keep in mind, too, we dont know if the wall is magical, only a physical barrier. it's not bloodraven's cave. we've also seen the wight in mormont's solar. it was blatantly on the wall. there's a good chance:

1) it's not magical at all, we havent seen it react with Others, and

2) if it was magical, it certainly isnt anymore, the watch has failed

I'm almost certain the Sam chapter with cold hands and the passage under the wall, there is a mention of some spell or magic (no?) that prevents whights/others from crossing the wall. My guess is that the conditions:

Night watch staying true

&

Stark in winterfell

have some connection to this spell/magic.

[Ghosts Lunch]

Crazy theory: Dany will bring it down accidentally after blowing dragonbinder which is actually Jaramun.

Really though, I think the Wall won't fall in a conventional way. I think it fell when Bowen & his cronies knifed Jon, the cold Jon felt being the arrival of the Others at the Wall

Good point, the whole thing seems to be going to shite all at once against various parties and it would be well-timed for them to turn up at that moment

[Shagwell Snow]

An extremely cold winter could very possibly freeze the sea,making the wall as a warded barrier redundant.

This could also,eventually provide a Land bridge for Danny's massive army ,including a giant khallasar,to reach westeros.

The Others could swarm into westeros and possibly essos.In the meantime Jon's body would be in less peril and Mel, shireen,patchface n co would still be given time for whatever the conclusion is to their obviously doomed/ important/fuckin freaky story arc.

[Nerevanin]

Magic, duh. Seriously, I can't really imagine anything else. The Horn of Winter is my guess. Or someone defeating the Others for good and then the Wall is no longer needed so it would fall.

[Voice]

Here's the thing about the comet. If that struck Planetos, it would do a hell of a lot more damage than just bring the Wall down. Realistically speaking, it would pose a far greater threat than the Others themselves.

And hey, ICE SPIDERS CLIMBING THE WALL IS MY IDEA wah wah wah I want credit! LOL

[Julia H.]

I agree with those who say the Wall is magical, even if we don't fully understand the nature of its magic. So yes, if it is so, the Wall falls if its magic falls or if it is conquered by the Others. Or it may come down literally, which could well be an event similar to the Doom of Valyria.

i had a theory, that

there must always be a stark in winterfell,

wasnt just for family pride. but the stipulations of a contract. that exactly how wildlings, give Others their babies, and Others leave them alone, they were paying blood tribute to them. like craster was. what if, keeping a stark in winterfell, was the stark's blood tribute. like how theon was to ned, keeping the peace as a ward with balon. what if keeping a stark, as a blood ward, was keeping the peace with something. when ned always said that line, it sounded more of a warning, than an exclamation of pride.

what if it's the same with the night's watch? they pledge an oath. they remain on the wall. their numbers, falter. but they recruit more. the wall heals itself. being a ward, to keep the wall up. and the lesser their numbers, the more the wall falters.

i wonder, if we go through the book, if whenever someone dies on the wall, if the next scene, the wall weeps.

I agree (and the idea expressed in the last line is totally fascinating). But I would like to add that I also like the idea that while it is often said that there must always be a Stark in Winterfell, there may be another, similar requirement, which is not stated explicitly, namely that there must always be a Stark on the Wall. Jon's Stark-blood may be important in more ways than one.

Assassinating Lord Commander Mormont was bad enough, but assassinating Jon is also an attempt by the men of the Night's Watch to remove the last Stark from the Wall. In this respect, it may not matter much that Jon survives the attack - the intent and the actual attempt may be enough to breach the magic.

Regarding the Night's Watch, it is definitely not a society of noble, legendary knights, but I still like the kind of heroism these simple men, social outcasts and reluctant heroes can show in their best moments in very difficult situations. Not all of them, of course. But then not all of those who were forced to join the NW equally deserved the life-long punishment.

[Gertrude]

oh hands down, no arguments there. it's just that out of the three possibilities, comet crash, melt, or dissipate, i see the comet crash being the most realistic (for some odd reason lmao)

but i could be way off, WHICH direction was the comet heading? is it even travelling in that direction??

I already answered this question a few posts back - the comet is heading away from the planet. It's getting fainter in the sky if it's not already gone. So no, among many other reasons, the comet is not likely to hit the wall because it's heading the wrong direction. You're gonna have to settle for the comet being a herald of prophecy and not a cosmic wrecking ball.

[Black Dragons]

Crazy theory: Dany will bring it down accidentally after blowing dragonbinder which is actually Jaramun.

Really though, I think the Wall won't fall in a conventional way. I think it fell when Bowen & his cronies knifed Jon, the cold Jon felt being the arrival of the Others at the Wall

I thinking the same thing that dragonbinder is really the horn Jaramun.

[Black Dragons]

I agree with those who say the Wall is magical, even if we don't fully understand the nature of its magic. So yes, if it is so, the Wall falls if its magic falls or if it is conquered by the Others. Or it may come down literally, which could well be an event similar to the Doom of Valyria.

I agree (and the idea expressed in the last line is totally fascinating). But I would like to add that I also like the idea that while it is often said that there must always be a Stark in Winterfell, there may be another, similar requirement, which is not stated explicitly, namely that there must always be a Stark on the Wall. Jon's Stark-blood may be important in more ways than one.

Assassinating Lord Commander Mormont was bad enough, but assassinating Jon is also an attempt by the men of the Night's Watch to remove the last Stark from the Wall. In this respect, it may not matter much that Jon survives the attack - the intent and the actual attempt may be enough to breach the magic.

Regarding the Night's Watch, it is definitely not a society of noble, legendary knights, but I still like the kind of heroism these simple men, social outcasts and reluctant heroes can show in their best moments in very difficult situations. Not all of them, of course. But then not all of those who were forced to join the NW equally deserved the life-long punishment.

sir this theroy can not be true because the WW was on the move before Ned lost his head and before Robb's head was replace by a Dirwolf (Grey Wind)

[Julia H.]

sir this theroy can not be true because the WW was on the move before Ned lost his head and before Robb's head was replace by a Dirwolf (Grey Wind)

What I said had nothing to do with the movements of the WW. It was about the possible fall of the Wall.

[BalerionTheCat]

I would believe the magic protecting the Wall diminish with the number of Sworn Brothers. With the expected chaos following Jon's death, I would expect many more deaths and the magic will be reduced to nothing.

[Bryaugh]

Here's the thing about the comet. If that struck Planetos, it would do a hell of a lot more damage than just bring the Wall down. Realistically speaking, it would pose a far greater threat than the Others themselves.

And hey, ICE SPIDERS CLIMBING THE WALL IS MY IDEA wah wah wah I want credit! LOL

Yeah, a comet hitting the earth (the known world) is going to cause a lot more destruction than just bringing down the wall. It would probably kill any others within 1000 miles instantly.

From the wikipedia article Impact Event:

Stony asteroids with a diameter of 4

meters (13 ft) impact Earth

approximately once per year.

Asteroids with a diameter of 7 meters

enter Earth's atmosphere with as much

kinetic energy as Little Boy (the atomic

bomb dropped on Hiroshima,

approximately 16 kilotons of TNT) about

every 5 years, but the air burst only

generates a much reduced 5 kilotons of

TNT.

END QUOTE.

Asteriods are much smaller than comets.

Some comet nuclei can be up to 10 miles in diameter so imagine what kind of destruction that would cause to the north and the rest of the planet for that matter. Hell, even a comet 1 mile in diameter is going to cause major damage on a global scale.

[Bryaugh]

Old Nan said the Wall will stand as long as the men of the Night's Watch stay true, and I think that that ties into the magic that keeps the Others from being able to pass the Wall. Since the men of the Watch have murdered the last two Lords Commander (Jeor Mormont and Jon Snow), they are definitely not staying true, and I think that the magical wards will fail because of this allowing the Others to breach or destroy the Wall.

I think this makes sense. Someone else in the Heresy thread brought up the idea that this happened in Jon's last chapter in Dance, hence the last line "he never felt the fourth knife, only the cold."

[Voice]

Yeah, a comet hitting the earth (the known world) is going to cause a lot more destruction than just bringing down the wall. It would probably kill any others within 1000 miles instantly.

From the wikipedia article Impact Event:

Stony asteroids with a diameter of 4

meters (13 ft) impact Earth

approximately once per year.

Asteroids with a diameter of 7 meters

enter Earth's atmosphere with as much

kinetic energy as Little Boy (the atomic

bomb dropped on Hiroshima,

approximately 16 kilotons of TNT) about

every 5 years, but the air burst only

generates a much reduced 5 kilotons of

TNT.

END QUOTE.

Asteriods are much smaller than comets.

Some comet nuclei can be up to 10 miles in diameter so imagine what kind of destruction that would cause to the north and the rest of the planet for that matter. Hell, even a comet 1 mile in diameter is going to cause major damage on a global scale.

Bingo. Asteroid sizes range greatly, but we're talking baseballs compared to 100,000km/hr objects as large as a city.

Global damage indeed. Locally, Westeros would be wiped right off the map.

[LongRider]

I would believe the magic protecting the Wall diminish with the number of Sworn Brothers. With the expected chaos following Jon's death, I would expect many more deaths and the magic will be reduced to nothing.

If that were the case, then currently the magic would be very weak as the number of Sworn Brothers is greatly diminished from the past. Now, I'm not saying you're wrong, but what could be cited as examples?

Well, here are a couple of ideas; the first two wights they brought in that revived during the night and attacked Mormont. Could a diminished magic have allowed them to revive? What about the possibility of BR overtaking Mormont's raven as has been proposed? Would a stronger magic have prevented that?

To argue against your proposition, I would note that the magic of the Black Gate in the abandoned Night Fort is still active.

So, I don't know, like the sound of your idea, but not quite convinced.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Realistically, If When The Wall Comes Down, How Does It Happen? Fixed the question for you...

The Others built the Wall...they had the knowledge 8,000 years ago (or 6,000...whatever)...they have the knowledge still...and can tare that MF'er down.

The Horn of Winter (Joramun) cannot be found, because it is made of ice. It will be 'reforged' by The Others...the sound this horn makes will be unlike anything we've encountered thus far. Those in the direct blast wave will be frozen...men, horses, even trees. And even the Ice will freeze even harder...and eventually crack due to sudden drop in temperature. Then it's a domino effect...The Wall Falls. Only the Hot Springs at Winterfell can protect men against the Horn of Winter. That and sharp, brittle stones used by the white trash elves of the forest.