why was Ladystoneheart cut out

[Hippocras]

I am not yet convinced she WAS cut. We'll see in season 6.

Certainly if she comes in now it will be much later than her appearance in the books. However because of other moves the show made, it makes a great deal of sense for her to have been delayed until other pieces were in place.

1. We already have Beric to set up the magic associated with bringing people back from the dead. The show did not need Stomeheart as well for this. So delaying her means that resurrections beyond Beric and Gregor Clegane were saved for the season where they will actually be an important theme because of Jon.

2. The show does not like juggling too many locations per season. It is not just Stoneheart that was absent from season 5, it was the entire Riverlands location. But we now know that the Riverlands will be part of season 6. So too will several characters who are outlaws resembling the later stages of the BWB.

3. Secret filming in Iceland. Iceland was not announced as a filming location this season, but nevertheless, we know that some secret filming did take place there. Nicolai was spotted in transit. This filming also took place at the same time as the known Riverlands characters were filming.

[Zombies That Were Promised]

I may be wrong, but both Jaime and Brienne's actors were spotted on/around the Riverlands set?

Brienne is particularly interesting, would have expected her to just stay in the North plot at this point.

[Hippocras]

I may be wrong, but both Jaime and Brienne's actors were spotted on/around the Riverlands set?

Brienne is particularly interesting, would have expected her to just stay in the North plot at this point.

Agreed, it is interesting. But IMO it makes sense if Sansa rejoins Littlefinger. Brienne can hardly stay with Sansa in that scenario having killed large numbers of Littlefinger's men who were trying for their part to kill her.

If Sansa does rejoin LF though, expect her to do so with her own game in mind. I do not think she trusts him but better to keep him close than to have him working against her.

[Lautrec]

I read Unsullied posts, and I remember a few. Ah here http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1024603&page=285

I could probably keep going to find some better ones, but everyone mentioning Melisandre reminds me just how blatantly obvious D&D is with their 'foreshadowing.'  Even by the show's standards of using LF's teleporter, her getting back to The Wall in the same episode she leaves Stannis's encampment (who was marching on WF for 5 eps at that point) was forced.

By comparison, Lady Stoneheart could have been a great reveal and the foreshadowing was much more subtle.  "They cut her throat to the bone and threw her body in the river" line was even intact on the show.

Ah, yes, anecdotes. I guess the book version sucks too then, cause I'm sure I could find people who disliked it.

Also make up your mind, please. Is the show too blatant with its foreshadowing or is everything shocking and out of nowhere? 

The Night's Watch had every reason to assassinate Jon, to the point that it was set-up and foreshadowed heavily.

[Lord Friendzone]

Ah, yes, anecdotes. I guess the book version sucks too then, cause I'm sure I could find people who disliked it.
Also make up your mind, please. Is the show too blatant with its foreshadowing or is everything shocking and out of nowhere? 

The Night's Watch had every reason to assassinate Jon, to the point that it was set-up and foreshadowed heavily.

It's kinda hard to do subtle hints, because people would notice them like with Olly and Thorne. Much like when Jon  entered room after Aemon's and Sam's conversation about Dany being the last Targaryen. People would say that eas telegraphed like miles away or it was out of nowhere. Either way someone will be bitching about it including me.  Well, 50 stares of Olly was just too much.

As for their reasoning. In the show they looked like a bunch of a morons tbh and especially when a bigger threat is rising and they are stubborn about it. The whole set up for his betrayl was rushed and badly done. He land them on the other side of the Wall for the big staredown betwen Thorne and Jon himself. If Thorne was smart he would let them there, because once he He was killed because he helped Wildlings, but in the books he was killed for from my perspective a better reason. Actually going and to meet Boltons in the battle and going against the rule of not being involved in politics. One could say it was a double edged sword cause Ramsay threatned him by going to CB for his bride and Reek. Of course the interesting part is, if PL was right or not. Stannis died in the show and maybe he truly died and Ramsay is marching on them.

[Cas Stark]

Ah, yes, anecdotes. I guess the book version sucks too then, cause I'm sure I could find people who disliked it.
Also make up your mind, please. Is the show too blatant with its foreshadowing or is everything shocking and out of nowhere? 

The Night's Watch had every reason to assassinate Jon, to the point that it was set-up and foreshadowed heavily.

It was foreshadowed heavily, what the 10000 Olly death stares, but it wasn't really set up particularly well.

In the book, there are no witnesses to Hardhome, nobody sees an army of the dead.  The NW knows the others are out there and that there are wights but the scope is easier to rationalize away.  In the show, there are MANY NW witnesses to what happened and how serious the threat is...and even the fact that the wildlings and NW fought together.  And they also found out that valaryian steel kills the Others.In effect, he has all the proof he needs in the show to effectively make his case, but doesn't use it.  Whereas in the books, he is right, but doesn't the proof to demonstrate it, and of course in the book Hardhome is just a straight up loss for the NW...a poor decision by Jon Snow, not a victory.

But, oddly Jon doesn't mention this to anyone but Sam on the show.  And he doesn't make any big speech about what happened at Hardhome to instill in the NW doubters how serious the situation is and how much they need the wildlings.  And of course, one wonders if they were going to kill him why they let him and several hundred wildlings back into Castle Black in the first place, since there is nothing that changes from the time they get back to when he's killed.  The intelligent thing would have been to crossbow him when he's outside the Wall and tell the wildlings to fuck off.  Not let them in, and then kill Jon, and then you've got all those wildlings inside the gate.

 

[Lautrec]

It was foreshadowed heavily, what the 10000 Olly death stares, but it wasn't really set up particularly well.

In the book, there are no witnesses to Hardhome, nobody sees an army of the dead.  The NW knows the others are out there and that there are wights but the scope is easier to rationalize away.  In the show, there are MANY NW witnesses to what happened and how serious the threat is...and even the fact that the wildlings and NW fought together.  And they also found out that valaryian steel kills the Others.In effect, he has all the proof he needs in the show to effectively make his case, but doesn't use it.  Whereas in the books, he is right, but doesn't the proof to demonstrate it, and of course in the book Hardhome is just a straight up loss for the NW...a poor decision by Jon Snow, not a victory.

But, oddly Jon doesn't mention this to anyone but Sam on the show.  And he doesn't make any big speech about what happened at Hardhome to instill in the NW doubters how serious the situation is and how much they need the wildlings.  And of course, one wonders if they were going to kill him why they let him and several hundred wildlings back into Castle Black in the first place, since there is nothing that changes from the time they get back to when he's killed.  The intelligent thing would have been to crossbow him when he's outside the Wall and tell the wildlings to fuck off.  Not let them in, and then kill Jon, and then you've got all those wildlings inside the gate.

 

There are witnesses for the battle at the Fist of the First Men.

We don't know if anything changes between when they let them in and the assassination, because we don't see it. It would be more intelligent to kill him then, yes, but if all the characters in this story acted intelligently then there would be no story, because Ned would still be alive.

Look, I'm not saying the show did it brilliantly or that the books did it badly, I'm just saying it's a pointless complaint. There are so many things to complain about with Season 5, but this really isn't one of them. Everything going on at the Wall? It was handled well. It was clear how and why they killed him. I also don't see why just because Jon is the LC who had been to Hardhome suddenly makes him impervious. Not like they can't kill him first and then take care of the problem with Thorne as the LC. 

[DirewolfDubz]

Lady Stoneheart in my opinion will certainly appear, The fact she hasn't means nothing its only so that when Jon dies people just aren't like oh he'll be back instantly it makes people think, Stoneheart will get her vengeance on the Freys mark my words

[Meera of Tarth]

I think that she is probably in the scripts, they have a oportunity this season, I really really hope she appears. A friend who is a show watcher  recently read Epilogue from ASoS and he was shocked that LSH hasn't appeared in the show yet

[Barristan Whitebeard]

There are witnesses for the battle at the Fist of the First Men.
We don't know if anything changes between when they let them in and the assassination, because we don't see it. It would be more intelligent to kill him then, yes, but if all the characters in this story acted intelligently then there would be no story, because Ned would still be alive.

Look, I'm not saying the show did it brilliantly or that the books did it badly, I'm just saying it's a pointless complaint. There are so many things to complain about with Season 5, but this really isn't one of them. Everything going on at the Wall? It was handled well. It was clear how and why they killed him. I also don't see why just because Jon is the LC who had been to Hardhome suddenly makes him impervious. Not like they can't kill him first and then take care of the problem with Thorne as the LC. 

This. Season 5 has its flaws, but I think that the only major disaster was Dorne. In fact, The Wall/Hardhome was probably the best storyline of the season.

[Bubblegum Bitch]

Its probably been said before but with the extension from 7 seasons to 8, I think D&D initially just didn't find the room for her arc so they cut her out. They probably would have included her if they knew it would be 8 seasons back when they made these decisions. 

[Damorian]

Good point, Bubblegum.

Somewhere in the early scripting phase for Season 4, when Sansa mentions her mother's body being thrown into the river, it seems as though the intent was still to leave the door wide open on including her: at least, in season 5 (since Alex Graves said she was never in contention for S4 at all, though I'm not too sure how accurate that is?)

But then that obviously changed with the Jaime/Dorne material delaying his arc in The Riverlands (~ and tbh, even that, in part, was probably to tread water a little while Brienne offed Stannis in the very Stan-heavy S5, then got back in position to resume her RL arc with Jaime later.)

Hands up, on watching season 5, I'll admit I thought it was a straight swap, and they'd cut all that great R/L stuff for Dorne. Seems I underestimated D&D on that as well as finally succumbing to the idea they were a pair of total halfwits (contrary to some, I never liked the 'dumb-&-dumber' tag and house of the undying excepted, thought some of their editorial changes & decisions taken in seasons 1-3 were spot on.)  Mia culpa.   In terms of Feast material that looked long gone this time last year, from Blackfish under seige to Euron Greyjoy, I've been seriously impressed to see them still playing the long game.

Which means that while it's still highly unlikely they managed to spirit Michelle Fairley on and off a set without somebody noticing (please let that secret filming in Iceland rumour be true, and not another red herring  )  - the jury IS still out, and we won't know for sure until the final frame of S6 airs (probably before that if LHS has a very obvious stand-in, like McShane, a very much alive Dondarrion or an undead Brynden Tully after taking an arrow at Riverrun.)

And since they've already given her a fair share of gory kills to dull the vengeance quota (Trant, the Freys on the road in s3, etc)   personally don't see it being anywhere near as satisfying a killing spree coming from Arya over the woman who was in the great hall when The Rains played and the doors locked. 

The big Frey kills belong to the big Stark matriarch, and like a fool, (or hopeless addict in denial? ) I'm still hopeful.

From the garden to the graveyard to a pot of pretty decorative ones sat beneath your living room TV, there is always room for stones!

 

[The Fattest Leech]

Love the show or grind your teeth while watching it, it is very clear that Dan and Dave are not selling the fantasy side of this fantasy story. There are quite a few "magic" items, beings, prophecies and creatures that are no where on screen or in script and I think LSH is one of them.

We had one resurrection with Dondarrion and that was probably enough to fill the fantasy quota for that season. That being said, Dondarrion was brought back six times when we see him and he was still very human in his thoughts and mannerisms. He tells how he forgets things and loses some parts, but he is not a vicious, sword wielding, blue-eyed zombie as some think Jon may become, so using the GoT TV plot, I kinda think Jon will be the same with only one resurrection under his belt. They couldn't show Lady Stoneheart because she is gruesome and full of revenge and they would never mess Jon's hair up THAT much.

[Damorian]

Well, I suppose we basically know roughly what Jon will look like based on the spy pic: Stark attire, hair bun et al.

The real question, yes, is all about his eyes and general demeanour. I expect they'll pale him up a bit and darken beneath his eyes to make him look a little more deathly, who knows? I can personaly do without the blue eyes thing because that implies wight to me where Red God resurrections need to be differentiated to rule out any confusion (maybe pinkish or a little bloodshot but not too red, like a bloody Gozor dog, ffs )

I really hope they tie his rez with LSH though, if Mel goes looking for Thoros in The Riverlands: what better red flag warning of the risks it would entail (i.e: if she doesn't just lay down her life to rez him herself, which would curtail her own story massively if John is back by 6X09 latest.)

My own imagined scenario for a killer 6x10 finale is that sometime after the build up of Frey hangings and Brienne being handed her "noose or sword?" ultimatum mid-season - (she meets with Jaime at Riverrun in 6x08, so if LSH is in, the ultimatum has to be given her before then, surely?)  - is this: 

Ramsey, Roose (or better still, both) escape the battle of the bastards into the woods in 6X10 to be captured by the BWB.

To chants of "Heart of Stone! Heart of Stone!" they're strung up to the nearest tree and hoisted into the air, LSH revealing herself beforehand to an incredulous Roose Bolton.

 "Who is next, My Lady?"

Cue The Kingslayer, delivered by Tarth. 

End season.

 

[Mister Stoneheart]

I agree that if LSH appears in Season 6 that she would most likely have to make an appearance mid-season for maximum effect with Jaime and Brienne's storyline.  My guess is, of course, she won't show at all.  If we don't see her by episode 7, she's gone--and there's certainly no chance after this Season.

[Farerb]

I agree that if LSH appears in Season 6 that she would most likely have to make an appearance mid-season for maximum effect with Jaime and Brienne's storyline.  My guess is, of course, she won't show at all.  If we don't see her by episode 7, she's gone--and there's certainly no chance after this Season.

Jaime and Brienne won't be in the Riverlands in the first half of the season. If LSH appears, it will be near the end of the season.

[Mister Stoneheart]

I know Jaime won't, but can we be so sure about Brienne?  Wait and see, I suppose!

[HairGrowsBack]

Just now, Mister Stoneheart said:

I know Jaime won't, but can we be so sure about Brienne?  Wait and see, I suppose!

Do we have confirmation that he'll be in KL for the first half of the season ?

[dariopatke]

What if both Arya and Sansa take the role of LS? Arya will go to Riverlands so she can kill Freys and Lannisters and Sansa can order Brienne in the start of season to kill Jaime to prove her loyalty, why else would Brienne abandon Sansa and leave south?

[Lord Friendzone]

5 hours ago, HairGrowsBack said:

Do we have confirmation that he'll be in KL for the first half of the season ?

I think so. Well, Jaime will travel at the speed of light this season. KL, Riverlands and some other place.