Season 5 Impressions

[Nitros]

How does the argument still go on that they are skipping to much and the show is dumbed down. The show isnt for book readers its for everyone. I saw a discussion on facebook and a few non watchers of the show said they didnt like it because there are too many characters and character arcs take sometimes 4 episodes just to occur through a single segment because they are constantly changing. You imagine only ever watching the show never reading the books. You see stuff like roose bolton and stannis baratheon like 3 times a season for 10 minutes. You then dont watch the show for another year until the next season how are you suppose to keep track of the characters. My friends constantly ask me what happened to this character again. If i watch Flash or gotham or vikings etc you can have a good idea of whats going on and who did what cause the same characters are always around.

Now people on here want more martells and greyjoys to be added that will have like 20 min air time over the next year? why? you can keep the story in the books, have a different one on tv or dont watch it. I enjoyed the fact that Ser barriston Selmy got stabbed and is close to death where hes fine in the books.

[Cas Stark]

I understand that stories that don't affect the end game are going to be dropped by the show, and that's fine. So, no Greygoys, Aegon, limited Martells, Stoneheart, whatever.

What i don't understand is the constant drumbeat of how it's about 'too many characters' when they're adding their own characters and/or giving those characters screen time at the expense of more important story elements. We don't need Loras and Olyvar that adds nothing to the story. Why bother casting Melara if she doesn't end up the well? There are already well established reasons for Cersei's behavior w/out the flashback. Why cast Lollys if that scene is basically it? Why cast multiple Sand Snakes instead of one Martell daughter? And while this season isn't over, there are plenty of previous season examples where the show gave a lot of time to peripheral characters instead of the main players.

Also, if there are stories and characters that are going to reappear the show should do a better job of keeping them before the audience. If Walder Frey is coming back, we should have seen him a couple of times. Ditto for the Brotherhood, Blackfish, etc.

The show this season feels extremely rushed with the exceptions of Meereen and the Wall, and even some of the Wall action is occuring w/out much contex

[StepStark]

How does the argument still go on that they are skipping to much and the show is dumbed down. The show isnt for book readers its for everyone. I saw a discussion on facebook and a few non watchers of the show said they didnt like it because there are too many characters and character arcs take sometimes 4 episodes just to occur through a single segment because they are constantly changing. You imagine only ever watching the show never reading the books. You see stuff like roose bolton and stannis baratheon like 3 times a season for 10 minutes. You then dont watch the show for another year until the next season how are you suppose to keep track of the characters. My friends constantly ask me what happened to this character again. If i watch Flash or gotham or vikings etc you can have a good idea of whats going on and who did what cause the same characters are always around.

Now people on here want more martells and greyjoys to be added that will have like 20 min air time over the next year? why? you can keep the story in the books, have a different one on tv or dont watch it. I enjoyed the fact that Ser barriston Selmy got stabbed and is close to death where hes fine in the books.

Martin in many interviews talked about how he refused all those offers from big studios because they were going to trim his story too much. And then he accepted the offer from D&D on the basis they don't do that. But that is what they have been doing for years now with cutting Tullys and Greyjoys and Northern lords from Robb's host and many character in the Nights Watch and lady Stoneheart. If Martin knew back then what are they going to do with his story he probably wouldn't accept their offer most probably. And if you can't see why then theres no reason to explain it.

[El Guapo]

I understand that stories that don't affect the end game are going to be dropped by the show, and that's fine. So, no Greygoys, Aegon, limited Martells, Stoneheart, whatever.

What i don't understand is the constant drumbeat of how it's about 'too many characters' when they're adding their own characters and/or giving those characters screen time at the expense of more important story elements. We don't need Loras and Olyvar that adds nothing to the story. Why bother casting Melara if she doesn't end up the well? There are already well established reasons for Cersei's behavior w/out the flashback. Why cast Lollys if that scene is basically it? Why cast multiple Sand Snakes instead of one Martell daughter? And while this season isn't over, there are plenty of previous season examples where the show gave a lot of time to peripheral characters instead of the main players.

Also, if there are stories and characters that are going to reappear the show should do a better job of keeping them before the audience. If Walder Frey is coming back, we should have seen him a couple of times. Ditto for the Brotherhood, Blackfish, etc.

The show this season feels extremely rushed with the exceptions of Meereen and the Wall, and even some of the Wall action is occuring w/out much contex

Why not? What is the big deal with an actor or actress being cast to appear in one scene or one episode? It is done all the time on tv.

[Dragon in the North]

What i don't understand is the constant drumbeat of how it's about 'too many characters' when they're adding their own characters and/or giving those characters screen time at the expense of more important story elements. We don't need Loras and Olyvar that adds nothing to the story. Why bother casting Melara if she doesn't end up the well? There are already well established reasons for Cersei's behavior w/out the flashback. Why cast Lollys if that scene is basically it? Why cast multiple Sand Snakes instead of one Martell daughter? And while this season isn't over, there are plenty of previous season examples where the show gave a lot of time to peripheral characters instead of the main players.

I don't think it's about too many characters, but rather too many storylines that would take up too much screen time. Adding Greyjoys, Aegon, and, to a lesser extent, LSH would have required dedicating a lot of time to those storylines if they expect the audience to care about them.

[Cas Stark]

Why not? What is the big deal with an actor or actress being cast to appear in one scene or one episode? It is done all the time on tv.

LMAO. Because we "have too many characters" as it is, and it's difficult to tell the stories for the main players, so casting and giving screen time to one off, one scene characters, if that is the case doesn't make sense for this show. This Show. It's more important that the stories work, make sense and have flow than that screen time is given to totally peripheral players and scenes that have no importance to anything.

[El Guapo]

LMAO. Because we "have too many characters" as it is, and it's difficult to tell the stories for the main players, so casting and giving screen time to one off, one scene characters, if that is the case doesn't make sense for this show. This Show. It's more important that the stories work, make sense and have flow than that screen time is given to totally peripheral players and scenes that have no importance to anything.

So you'd prefer the main characters to just what talk to themsleves? I really don't get this complaint at all. Melara and Lollys appeared in one scene each in one episode in support of one of the main characters. That's it.

[Cas Stark]

So you'd prefer the main characters to just what talk to themsleves? I really don't get this complaint at all. Melara and Lollys appeared in one scene each in one episode in support of one of the main characters. That's it.

My first post was fairly detailed and gave multiple examples of both extraneous unneeded scenes and where that time could be better spent. You don't agree, that's fine. But don't try and pretend that I'm advocating there is nothing in the show but main characters talking to themselves.

[El Guapo]

My first post was fairly detailed and gave multiple examples of both extraneous unneeded scenes and where that time could be better spent. You don't agree, that's fine. But don't try and pretend that I'm advocating there is nothing in the show but main characters talking to themselves.

Yes you did and one of your complaints was that they cast Lolly's for only one scene which I still don't know exactly what is the problem with that?

[Cas Stark]

Yes you did and one of your complaints was that they cast Lolly's for only one scene which I still don't know exactly what is the problem with that?

Last time. IMO, Kevan's outburst toward Cersei lacked any context. Many people considered it plain sexism, not a reasonable response to a woman who has usurped the power of her son and is making bad decisions right and left. Now, perhaps the show intends to change Cersei's character arc and she will indeed be portrayed more as a victim this season than as someone who, when she finally got the power she desired, didn't know how to use it.

To me, if we really will never see Lollys again, that time, or some of that time, or the time from the 100% repetitive scene with Varys and Tyrion would be better used on setting up the Cersei/Kevan dynamic, so his rant doesn't come completely out of left field. Last time we saw him all he did was apologize for Lancel, now all of a sudden, he's had it with her, and storms out, leaving the city. That is poor pacing, poor set up. We needed something in between or more exchange in that scene. Just a single example of where time from something peripheral or repetitive can be put to better use.

[El Guapo]

Last time. IMO, Kevan's outburst toward Cersei lacked any context. Many people considered it plain sexism, not a reasonable response to a woman who has usurped the power of her son and is making bad decisions right and left. Now, perhaps the show intends to change Cersei's character arc and she will indeed be portrayed more as a victim this season than as someone who, when she finally got the power she desired, didn't know how to use it.

What more context do you need? It was obvious she was packing the small council with sycophants (because she really wants the power herself) and Kevan called her out on that and wanted no part of that at all. As to why you didn't see Kevan do any of this last episode he explained that to the viewers in that very scene, he was there to pay is respects to his dead brother and his children. Also, this notion that they are portraying Cersei as some sort of innocent victim is quite bizarre to me and is certainly not in line with the way the show only viewers see her.

[Cas Stark]

What more context do you need? It was obvious she was packing the small council with sycophants (because she really wants the power herself) and Kevan called her out on that and wanted no part of that at all. As to why you didn't see Kevan do any of this last episode he explained that to the viewers in that very scene, he was there to pay is respects to his dead brother and his children. Also, this notion that they are portraying Cersei as some sort of innocent victim is quite bizarre to me and is certainly not in line with the way the show only viewers see her.

Multiple reviewers saw that scene as Cersei combating Kevan's sexism and his refusal to take her seriously because she's a woman and for no other reason. So, obviously, not everyone, not even all the critics 'got' those elements, which is why I say there wasn't enough time devoted.

I think Show Cersei is now so much more sympathetic and smarter than even her brother she is barely even the same character. The Lannisters are broke on the show, so her refusing to pay the Iron Bank isn't a mistake, but a necessity. Marg isn't a 16 year old girl who is actually giving her son Tommen good advice, but a super conniving Cougar who seems to be plotting queen's downfall for real, not just in her imagination, Jamie hasn't rejected her, she rejected him, no burning of the tower of the hand. I suspect by the time we get to the walk she will be almost wholly sympathetic.

[El Guapo]

Multiple reviewers saw that scene as Cersei combating Kevan's sexism and his refusal to take her seriously because she's a woman and for no other reason. So, obviously, not everyone, not even all the critics 'got' those elements, which is why I say there wasn't enough time devoted.

I think Show Cersei is now so much more sympathetic and smarter than even her brother she is barely even the same character. The Lannisters are broke on the show, so her refusing to pay the Iron Bank isn't a mistake, but a necessity. Marg isn't a 16 year old girl who is actually giving her son Tommen good advice, but a super conniving Cougar who seems to be plotting queen's downfall for real, not just in her imagination, Jamie hasn't rejected her, she rejected him, no burning of the tower of the hand. I suspect by the time we get to the walk she will be almost wholly sympathetic.

I really don't care what reviewers think I go by what I see the show only watchers think and most them loved seeing Kevan take down Cersei because they think Cersei is pretty much a raging bitch which is something that has been established over the past 4 seasons. Is she the evil paranoid bitch that is in the books? Of course not, she is little more nuanced than that and yes a little more sympathetic. But yeah, still a bitch to most show only viewers.

[StepStark]

I really don't care what reviewers think I go by what I see the show only watchers think and most them loved seeing Kevan take down Cersei because they think Cersei is pretty much a raging bitch which is something that has been established over the past 4 seasons. Is she the evil paranoid bitch that is in the books? Of course not, she is little more nuanced than that and yes a little more sympathetic. But yeah, still a bitch to most show only viewers.

This doesnt make any sense at all. All it takes for your friends to enjoy a scene is someone taking down Cersei but you say she is more nuanced than in the books? Really? Maybe we disagree on the meaning of the word nuanced. As far as I know that means something subtle and layered but the reaction of your friends point to the very different feeling. And by the way Cersei in the books is endlessly more nuanced than in the show but you obviously missed it if you think she's nothing but an evil paranoid bitch.

And by the way about Lolys of course Cas Stark is right because Bronn is not the main character and he shouldn't be the main character. D&D are casting actors to flesh Bronn but hey never properly fleshed main characters like Cersei for example. And when someone says they didn't flesh Cersei properly, defenders of the show always start parroting that there isn;t enough time. Well if there isn't enough time maybe the show shouldn't be spending it on Bronn's marriage which is about to be ended anyway.

[El Guapo]

This doesnt make any sense at all. All it takes for your friends to enjoy a scene is someone taking down Cersei but you say she is more nuanced than in the books? Really? Maybe we disagree on the meaning of the word nuanced. As far as I know that means something subtle and layered but the reaction of your friends point to the very different feeling. And by the way Cersei in the books is endlessly more nuanced than in the show but you obviously missed it if you think she's nothing but an evil paranoid bitch.

And by the way about Lolys of course Cas Stark is right because Bronn is not the main character and he shouldn't be the main character. D&D are casting actors to flesh Bronn but hey never properly fleshed main characters like Cersei for example. And when someone says they didn't flesh Cersei properly, defenders of the show always start parroting that there isn;t enough time. Well if there isn't enough time maybe the show shouldn't be spending it on Bronn's marriage which is about to be ended anyway.

I wasn't referring to my friends I was referring to the reactions of show only viewers on other websites and yes most of them loved kevan taking down Cersei. And yes in teh books Cersei is evil, and she is paranid and yes she is a bitch. That is why I love the character.

Lolly's was not cast to flesh out Bronn. If that was the case we would be seeing her in multiple episodes which is obviously not going to be the case. That scene was about Jamie recruiting Bronn to go his little side mission to Dorne. That's it.

[Ghosts Lunch]

Multiple reviewers saw that scene as Cersei combating Kevan's sexism and his refusal to take her seriously because she's a woman and for no other reason. So, obviously, not everyone, not even all the critics 'got' those elements, which is why I say there wasn't enough time devoted.

I think Show Cersei is now so much more sympathetic and smarter than even her brother she is barely even the same character. The Lannisters are broke on the show, so her refusing to pay the Iron Bank isn't a mistake, but a necessity. Marg isn't a 16 year old girl who is actually giving her son Tommen good advice, but a super conniving Cougar who seems to be plotting queen's downfall for real, not just in her imagination, Jamie hasn't rejected her, she rejected him, no burning of the tower of the hand. I suspect by the time we get to the walk she will be almost wholly sympathetic.

It was probably meant to be Ser Kevan recognising she isn't up to it but the whole "you would abandon your King in his time of need" line opens the door to the idea Ser Kevan was walking away because of sexism and not because she is unift to rule, especially as he was polite in E1 and then all of a sudden he was uber critical which may seem odd to some. Having said that it could be the point, if Cersei sees it as a case of sexism so it might be able to work

^^ This sort of thing needs some build-up, eg Ned saying he won't be Roberts Hand over Dany assassination had build up at the beginning of S1E2 when on the road back to KL

It was the same with the LC election, we really needed Cotter Pyke in there, Bowen Marsh I think was in the scene and needed name-dropping but we needed a three-way tie early in the episode with Jon not contesting, Sam scheming to secretly nominate Jon and gather support from the Pyke/Mallister factions would have been great to see when Jon is offered Winterfell at the same time, would have made that conversation at the start of the election scene more interesting and they could maintain the Easter Egg

[roxWolfox]

Because this is one of about 5 or 6 sites I go to every day for recaps/comments on episodes, I'm going to side with El Guapo as his/her comments are by far the most prevalent on the internet.

Not everyone who watches has read the books, and they don't need to to understand the power trip Cersei is on. It is clear that Kevan sees through her manipulations, just as it is clear that Jon will win the ballot as that scene shortly follows Stannis' offer of Winterfell. To put more time into these power play sessions is pointless.

Quite bluntly, the story of GoT/ASOIAF starts off with White Walkers, and I've been seeing more and more comments about that threat being derailed because of the endless political machinations/manoeverings. Some of us want to go back to the White Walker threat without much more ado.

Those who want the book version of the story literally do just read the books. Those who want a condensed version of the story watch the show. In the end, those who cannot abide by the changes should let go of the show. When entertainment infuses someone with so much negativity/hate/rage, it stops them from doing something else that could inspire moments of joy. Like making homemade peanut butter cookies. Ummm. Nummy.

[Kaminsod]

Overall, even with the current episodes not being the most exciting or thrilling, their overall quality has remained intact for the most part. D&D appears to be committed to trimming the fat from Feast and Dance, which if we're all honest with ourselves, GRRMS editor should've done before the books were released.

The only complaint i have is for a handful of bizarre inclusions and changes, such as the pointless Missandi/Grey Worm romantic subplot, and death of Barristan Selmy. But aside from that, i'm enjoying Season 5 so far.

[roxWolfox]

Overall, even with the current episodes not being the most exciting or thrilling, their overall quality has remained intact for the most part. D&D appears to be committed to trimming the fat from Feast and Dance, which if we're all honest with ourselves, GRRMS editor should've done before the books were released.

The only complaint i have is for a handful of bizarre inclusions and changes, such as the pointless Missandi/Grey Worm romantic subplot, and death of Barristan Selmy. But aside from that, i'm enjoying Season 5 so far.

When did Barristan Selmy die? O.O

If that info is from a leaked episode, you'll be wanting to put that part of your post in spoiler tags.

[StepStark]

I wasn't referring to my friends I was referring to the reactions of show only viewers on other websites and yes most of them loved kevan taking down Cersei. And yes in teh books Cersei is evil, and she is paranid and yes she is a bitch. That is why I love the character.

Lolly's was not cast to flesh out Bronn. If that was the case we would be seeing her in multiple episodes which is obviously not going to be the case. That scene was about Jamie recruiting Bronn to go his little side mission to Dorne. That's it.

Of course that Cersei in the book is evil and paranoid and bitch but she's not just that and she has depth. On the show she doesn't as evidenced by the reaction of show watchers you described. And about Bronn that is what Im talking about, do we really need to see how is Jaime recruiting Bronn if the show is desperate for time as D&D often say? Wouldn't that time be more needed for Cersei and Kevan like Cas Stark suggested for example? Of course it would because in that case Cersei probably wouldn't be so shallow as she in the show.