[BOOK SPOILERS] The Portrayal of Loras

[BlueDragon]

I think the show is homophobic whether or not D&D realize it or give a damn. I don't think Loras is a minor character and I think there is plenty of room for developing his portrayal. The writers and show runners are just being lazy and homophobic.

[First of My Name]

As a homosexual, I have to say that I don't get why people found this offensive. Sure, they could have done much more with the character, but that doesn't make the show homophobic.

[olenna123]

Society has a problem with sex in general. That's why every sex scene is screamed as "unnecessary" or as "exploiting" someone

That's because this particular show IS very explotative to everyone who isn't a straight male.

I just don't know how anyone can see the amount of boobs in relation with the amount of naked men and not think that woman's bodies are being completely exploited and objectified. It's like people think it's normal for only woman to get naked when having sex, while men keep their clothes on most of the time.

Do gay people never lie with each other and talk?

Without having sex first? According to the writers, no.

[sj4iy]

That's because this particular show IS very explotative to everyone who isn't a straight male.

LMAO, oh dear god. The ridiculousness is just...overwhelming.

So Dany making Daario strip ISN'T exploitation but Loras lying with another man and talking IS. Talk about absurd.

[olenna123]

The double standard and hypocrisy found in this one statement is incredibly overwhelming and bordering on the absurd.

Why?

[teemo]

The top comment shows how Finn Jones (Loras) feels about it: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/32ez7w/spoilers_all_loras_the_waste/

[Chilli]

I think people are getting angry over nothing.

Seems to happen every single time there's a sex scene in this show...doesn't matter who the character is. Basically, I think people just have problems with open sexuality in the first place and think that it's 'dumbing down' a character to show them as a sexual person.

Loras hadn't exactly 'slept around', this is literally only the second person we've seen him sleep with, and the last one was three seasons ago. Clearly, his sexuality will play a part in the season to come, so whatever.

I agree!

I think it's important for later with the Faith Militant. I don't see any problem with it. Finally some naked men!

[olenna123]

LMAO, oh dear god. The ridiculousness is just...overwhelming.

So Dany making Daario strip ISN'T exploitation but Loras lying with another man and talking IS. Talk about absurd.

Absurd? You have nothing to say about the point I was trying to make. We see waaaay more naked woman than men and the way they do it is not even comparable. They've shown completely naked man about 3 times. Daario beeing naked only from behind does nothing to change this.

Loras isn't being exploited because he is shown having sex with another man. It's because having sex with men is the ONLY thing he ever does. You are completely missing the point here.

[protar]

Oh, please. It would take me half a day to list all of the characters who have done sex scenes in this show, explicit or not. Dany, Cersei, Jon, Ygritte, Tyrion, Margaery, Robb, Theon, Ros...the list goes on and on and on, and those are just the main characters. And EVERY TIME people pop up and complain about it.

Hell, Loras didn't even HAVE a sex scene...it was just him lying with another man talking. How the hell is that 'exploiting' gay people? Do gay people never lie with each other and talk? And it certainly wasn't as explicit as anything involving Theon.

People are truly upset because:

1. Show Loras is different from Book Loras. Whoopdy friggen' do.

2. Instead of 'hinting' at the homosexuality like the book does, the show embraces it.

3. Society has a problem with sex in general. That's why every sex scene is screamed as "unnecessary" or as "exploiting" someone.

I see nothing at all disturbing, exploitative or wrong about Loras' portrayal. We've seen him with two men...and he wasn't even undressed the first time.

That isn't why people are complaining about Loras though. We're complaining because his sexuality is his predominant trait. You have still failed to address that: are you truly denying the fact that his sexuality is mentioned in virtually every scene he is in? And we're also complaining because he jumps straight from Renly to Olivar without any sort of development, which implies the tired old promiscuous gay cliche.

I have no problem with sex scenes. I'm a sex positive person, so don't try to attack a strawman. In fact, taken entirely in a vacuum this scene is really fine. It's quite sweet even. But outside of the vacuum it's just another scene where D+D are reminding us that Loras is gay and...well nothing else.

[Lord Damian]

I guess that they feel they must have over the top gay-ness to attract more and more people? Someone needs to tell them that it is not necessary, the complex story and the constant guessing to the end game already has them hooked. We need less of Ser Loras and more of the Iron borne or Dorne for that matter. They coud have had more of Arya which they had none in episode !, so enough with the Loras. EVERYONE KNOWS HE IS GAY!

[Jojosh]

Loras is such a stereotypical man slut in the show

I also get a hint of incest with how close they have made marg and loras in the show

kinda weird

[PatrickStormborn]

It's not just an LGBT issue. I'm straight and I don't like the way they're handling the character, just like how I don't like the treatment of Brienne, Varys, Sansa, etc.

Okay, cool. I don't care. I was very specifically responding to a point someone made that it's "nothing", when obviously it is not "nothing" for LGBT people to have to sit through something we find homophobic.

[TheHeirToDorne]

I already stated my case in the complaints thread so I won't go all the way down the rabbit hole here, but I wanted to share that I'm gay and not offended. I think we're seeing shadows of homophobia in every representation of gay characters in popular culture. Historically, gay people are not used to seeing themselves represented in television and we have a tendency to tear apart every representation we do have. It makes hitting the target of what's an acceptable LGBT character nearly impossible. LGBT issues are having a national moment right now, but people are getting fatigued with this constant bickering and infighting. Do we need to settle for tokenism and stereotypes? No. But we should also avoid the tendency to desecrate good-faith attempts at inclusion.

I would just stress that we should wait and see where Loras is taken this season if he does have an increased role.

As for Loras's character in the books - I don't think that his pining for Renly would translate to the world of the show (nor do I think it's at all realistic that an 18 year old would consign himself to a life of celibacy for a lost lover, though it is a very sweet and chivalrous thought).

It's not just an LGBT issue. I'm straight and I don't like the way they're handling the character, just like how I don't like the treatment of Brienne, Varys, Sansa, etc.

This is the real issue. The character is thinly built, but it's not directly offensive.

[jmondrag]

Loras hasn't been handled too well from the beginning. If I weren't a book reader, all I would think was that he's the gay son of a powerful house who can fight decently well. Other than that, not much. It seems like he may turn into bait for Margaery for when the Faith Militant get reinstated. Without the Kettlebacks, there wouldn't be anyway for Cersei to accuse Margaery of infidelity. Maybe Loras' widely known homosexuality will cause him to get arrested and interrogated by the High Sparrow, and then Olyvar will get tortured sun up to sun down until he comes clean on the details of his relationship with Loras. In pops Cersei's favorite young queen and boom, Margaery is arrested, but Cersei as well, which leads to her walk of shame through Kings Landing.

[Florina Laufeyson]

So. Not to gloat or anything but I was complaining about Loras' portrayal back in season three.

Totally called it.

I dont think most of us thought they would go this far with it though. I know i figured we see Loras roll in the hay with Olyvar and that be that. Then they would move on with actual characterization.

Somewhere in the Rhyonar, Jon Connington is glad he was never cast :dunno:

lol.

As a homosexual, I have to say that I don't get why people found this offensive. Sure, they could have done much more with the character, but that doesn't make the show homophobic.

Its not about the gay sex. Its about how thats all there is to his character. Thats stereotyping. Thats depicting a gay character for the sake of it. Theres so much more to him than that. The fact that hes supposed to be composited into three (Willas, Garlan, and himself) characters and hes this one-note is a problem. Its not just bad characterization and writing. Its unfortunate in implications. Stating "Gay Knight In Westeros. All he wants to do is bang other dudes." What happened to Loras' love for Renly? What happened to his pledge to be a knight? Is there a better reason as to why he didnt join the KG? What happened to Loras wanting to protect his sister? Why is she the one to protect him?

The show's depiction gives off the air that queer characters in the series are simply overly thirsty for sex and thats it.

The top comment shows how Finn Jones (Loras) feels about it: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/32ez7w/spoilers_all_loras_the_waste/

I dont understand reddit layout. Which comment are you referring to? I cant tell which is the top comment.

EDIT: for some reason, theres a phantom quote box with Pats name on it. Ignore lololol

[Hol Horse]

You know it's bad when you read Loras and picture his arse before his face.

On le more serious note, I don't care too much, personally - but it is kinda forced. As opposed to Oberyn - where they showed his bed-adventures only as a small scoop of the entire character and went on to flesh him out, they really underdeveloped Loras as a character.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

Loras having sex with two people on the show hardly seems offensive or stereotypical. You'd think the show was treating him like the ridiculous sexually defined abomination that is Book Cersei from the way people are complaining.

It's not that people are complaining about him having sex with guys. It's that it is pretty much ALL the character does. Instead of being one of the characteristics of his character, it IS his character.

[sj4iy]

It's not that people are complaining about him having sex with guys. It's that it is pretty much ALL the character does. Instead of being one of the characteristics of his character, it IS his character.

He's had two sex scenes in five seasons.

If that's ALL you remember about him in those five seasons, then it's not a problem with the character.

[Mladen]

He's had two sex scenes in five seasons.

If that's ALL you remember about him in those five seasons, then it's not a problem with the character.

It is not solely about sex scene, it is about entire perception of the character who is nothing but gay slut. Loras has no trait. Not a single one.

[Ser Gareth]

They've ruined his character as much as they've ruined pretty much all the Wildlings and the Blackfish. It was obvious they ruined his character the moment Renly died and within a couple of episodes Loras was banging someone else. Book Loras has the potential to be an exceptional Knight, is full of pride, is arrogant, competitive (to the point of being willing to cheat) but can also be noble, intelligent, loyal, romantic and chivalrous. Basically he may be cocky but he has depth. TV Loras is as shallow as a spoon, a bit sulky and comes across as being dumb. Really dumb.