[BOOK SPOILERS] The Portrayal of Loras

[Winter's Knight]

Cogman even gave that as an explanation in a Q&A, but yeah, would be nice to actually have that explanation somehow shown on screen then.

Does that come across last season? I remember they cut a scene of him mourning over Renly's corpse in S2 but nothing after that.

Does Brienne remember Renly for that matter?

[ambi76]

Does that come across last season? I remember they cut a scene of him mourning over Renly's corpse in S2 but nothing after that.

No. No time for that it seems.

Does Brienne remember Renly for that matter?

Yes,

she does.

[The Bear]

I'm going to comic-con on the weekend and Finn is going to be there at a GOT panel. I really kind of want to ask him what he thinks of Loras, if he feels he's being given the stereotypical gay treatment and how he feels the show version compares to the book (if I get the opportunity, of course).

I wouldn't be surprised if someone else asked something along those lines first though.

[Typhoon Swell]

I'm going to comic-con on the weekend and Finn is going to be there at a GOT panel. I really kind of want to ask him what he thinks of Loras, if he feels he's being given the stereotypical gay treatment and how he feels the show version compares to the book (if I get the opportunity, of course).

He's just going to give a pleasant diplomatic answer and then you'll be escorted out by security.

[The Bear]

He's just going to give a pleasant diplomatic answer and then you'll be escorted out by security.

Why on earth would I be escorted out, lol? Questions are allowed. He's actually been pretty open with discussing his views on the character and how the show falls short so I wouldn't necessarily expect the same brush-off other actors would give. It's a very small con, panelists tend to be more open in small cons.

[protar]

He's just going to give a pleasant diplomatic answer and then you'll be escorted out by security.

It's already been posted upthread that he's made some comments indicating he isn't happy. I'm sure we'll be able to read between the lines of his diplomatic answer.

[Typhoon Swell]

It's already been posted upthread that he's made some comments indicating he isn't happy. I'm sure we'll be able to read between the lines of his diplomatic answer.e

I was just joking. Not aware of what Finn Jones has said about it but yeah, Loras sucks in the show and I'd be annoyed if I had to play the part knowing what could have been. His best scene and one of the few where he actually acts like his book counterpart was cut (the one where he's mourning over Renly's corpse).

[The Bear]

It's already been posted upthread that he's made some comments indicating he isn't happy. I'm sure we'll be able to read between the lines of his diplomatic answer.

Yes, I realise that. I've read his interviews in the past. I was thinking of specifically asking what he thinks of his arc and characterisation this season and how he feels it compares to book Loras's arc. That's not really the kind of question that demands a diplomatic answer. I'm not stupid enough to say something negative about the show or accuse them of stereotyping or whatever, of course that wouldn't get a proper response.

It's highly unlikely I'll even have the opportunity to ask anyway, and like I said, I wouldn't be shocked if someone else asked a similar question.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I don't think the portrayal is homophobic. A more accurate word would be something that has been already mentioned: exploitative. I believe the show is trying to cash in on the fact Loras is gay to say "look, we don't just portray naked women! We also show that gay people have sex and that's ok!". And they keep insisting on that. And insisting on that. And insisting on that. We. Got. It. Loras is gay and he likes sex with men. Can we move on to the many other layers the character have and aren't gay stereotypes?

Yesterday, I talked with an Unsullied friend about how the episode is receiving bad critiques about the portrayal of Loras. He told me "why? Loras has always been portrayed the same in past seasons". Then, I explained him what bookLoras is really like. As he hasn't read, I explained him Loras has very much chosen a life of celibacy in the KG because his heart is broken by losing Renly. He then understood why we're mad.

I think the mistake HBO is making is one very subtle (or no so subtle for some). Yes, they do portray a healthy gay man who is involved in a healthy fully consensual relationship with some other guy, despite this guy is not noble and Loras is a Lord (or a heir). But that is not Loras. They want to shape Loras in the way they believe he should be and pretend they can get away with it because they believe some LGTB would feel "represented". The problem is that not every LGTB people define themselves by their sexuality. Of course, I've met some that would never stop remind you how much they have sex with people of their same sex, but some others have more depth. Loras have more depth, but I'm not so sure how much they -or how good they could pull it out- a celibate gay man. Maybe they feel they could offend someone by pretending Loras got himself in a closet out of grief :dunno:

Oh thank you! And oh geeze. Poor guy. He seemed so dead set on playing Loras like his book counterpart and is getting robbed of that. :tantrum:

You know what's the saddest thing? That Kit and Emilia have this vibe about feeling the same. :dunno:

[Ran]

He's just going to give a pleasant diplomatic answer and then you'll be escorted out by security.

Finn's pretty forthcoming. Good guy.

Can't help but note his most equivocal remarks on the show's writing and portayal of Loras come from this past summer, when S5 was being filmed.

[First of My Name]

Its not about the gay sex. Its about how thats all there is to his character. Thats stereotyping. Thats depicting a gay character for the sake of it. Theres so much more to him than that. The fact that hes supposed to be composited into three (Willas, Garlan, and himself) characters and hes this one-note is a problem. Its not just bad characterization and writing. Its unfortunate in implications. Stating "Gay Knight In Westeros. All he wants to do is bang other dudes." What happened to Loras' love for Renly? What happened to his pledge to be a knight? Is there a better reason as to why he didnt join the KG? What happened to Loras wanting to protect his sister? Why is she the one to protect him?

The show's depiction gives off the air that queer characters in the series are simply overly thirsty for sex and thats it.

I guess that makes sense. He's had far more scenes without sex than with sex though.

[A Man Has Said]

I'm not surprised in the slightest that they'd continue dumbing Loras down to "that one gay dude." I figured they'd latch onto this aspect of his character and milk it dry back in S1.

It doesn't strike me as offensive per se (then again, I'm not gay), just you know... bad writing. There's supposed to be more to his character than this and it's just not apparent at all. I don't think for a second that they'll explore his relation to Tommen, his take on the Kingsguard, his conflict with Cersei, or anything else. His entire role will probably begin and end with being a mistreated gay damsel for the Faith.

I think that where it gets offensive to me is when I think about how much that D&D have to cut from the book when adapting to television. Every Loras scene could have been something else that was far more critical to the development of plot.

It's just a waste of time, space and money.

[juanml82]

I don't think the portrayal is homophobic. A more accurate word would be something that has been already mentioned: exploitative. I believe the show is trying to cash in on the fact Loras is gay to say "look, we don't just portray naked women! We also show that gay people have sex and that's ok!". And they keep insisting on that. And insisting on that. And insisting on that. We. Got. It. Loras is gay and he likes sex with men. Can we move on to the many other layers the character have and aren't gay stereotypes?

Yesterday, I talked with an Unsullied friend about how the episode is receiving bad critiques about the portrayal of Loras. He told me "why? Loras has always been portrayed the same in past seasons". Then, I explained him what bookLoras is really like. As he hasn't read, I explained him Loras has very much chosen a life of celibacy in the KG because his heart is broken by losing Renly. He then understood why we're mad.

I think the mistake HBO is making is one very subtle (or no so subtle for some). Yes, they do portray a healthy gay man who is involved in a healthy fully consensual relationship with some other guy, despite this guy is not noble and Loras is a Lord (or a heir). But that is not Loras. They want to shape Loras in the way they believe he should be and pretend they can get away with it because they believe some LGTB would feel "represented". The problem is that not every LGTB people define themselves by their sexuality. Of course, I've met some that would never stop remind you how much they have sex with people of their same sex, but some others have more depth. Loras have more depth, but I'm not so sure how much they -or how good they could pull it out- a celibate gay man. Maybe they feel they could offend someone by pretending Loras got himself in a closet out of grief :dunno:

You know what's the saddest thing? That Kit and Emilia have this vibe about feeling the same. :dunno:

I don't think BookLoras has any depth. And ShowLoras, being heir to Highgarden, can't take a celibacy vow anyway.

He does leave the Purple Wedding in disgust when they are mocking Renly's homosexuality

[aceluby]

I don't think BookLoras has any depth. And ShowLoras, being heir to Highgarden, can't take a celibacy vow anyway.

He does leave the Purple Wedding in disgust when they are mocking Renly's homosexuality

This is where I'm at. He's portrayed as a stupid, arrogant kid who thinks he's better than he is, does some really dumb shit, and ends up getting nearly killed for it. Most of his actual character development happens through the Queen of Thorns, which contrasts the juvenile puppy love that Sansa has for him. Other than that his screen time is thin at best in the books. Most of the scenes we see of him were never written, and in all honesty, could very well be exactly what the character thinks/acts like when off screen. So now he's a dumb, arrogant kid who likes to have sex. How shocking...

[Dagon]

I'm finding it offensive, excessively so. Loras is supposed to be filling the role of 3+ characters and so far he only exists as almost featureless sexuality. No substance, no personality.

This.

Book Loras is a bad ass. This Loras is a parody.

[Winter's Knight]

Bite me.

Book!Loras was arrogant true,but he was also a smartass. He was loyal, he loved his sister, he was still mourning Renly at the end of Storm-so much so that even Jaime felt bad for him, he was a good fighter.

SN: I thought it was a nice touch, having Loras dig Renly's grave on his own. I liked his entire dialogue with Jamie at the end of Storm, it sums him up nicely without diluting his character.

[aceluby]

This.

Book Loras is a bad ass. This Loras is a parody.

A bad ass? Why? Because he's decently skillful at knocking people off horses in a tourney? Because he got beat by both Brienne and the Mountain in single combat? Because he was in one battle where his main role was to clean up after the fighting was over? Or maybe it was the first time he was actually given command and ended up nearly dying? What a bad ass....

I'm just not seeing why it's a huge stretch that outside of the few times in the books we actually see Loras, that as a young teenager/early 20 something would think about sex often. That's pretty much ALL I thought about at that age, and he has the means to do something about it. Character seems spot on from my POV.

One of my favorite parts of the episode was when he was trying to describe Tywin to Cersei, it was hilarious and as much as a character defining scene as any of the bedroom scenes everyone is getting all up in arms about.

[Mad Madam Mim]

If the show wants to 'represent' the LGBT community then they should not diminish a character to the extent that their sexuality is their defining characteristic. Loras, the book character, is a three-dimensional character who also happens to be gay; his sexuality is only one facet of his character (which some book reader's didn't even pick up on) and he has many sides to him beyond his 'gayness'. Instead the show diminished his character to the extent that his sexuality is the only thing that defines him as an individual.

I have no qualms about a good gay hanky panky scene, however I agree with the comments that the way in which the show has reduced Loras' character to THE GAY ONE THAT HAS GAY SEX is disappointing.

[Hot Meat Pie]

Why is everyone going crazy over the Loras sex scene? How in the world do you people find it offensive and homophobic?? Loras has been portrayed as gay since S1 none of this is new I don't get what all the commotion is about...D&D are anything but homophobic they are both very Liberal. Oh and their both Jewish too.

Yeah bookLoras is portrayed differently than showLoras not a surprise a lot of things are different in the show from the books, even though bookLoras was also gay.

[Tadco26]

Bottom line is Loras being gay is his primary characteristic on the show, being gay is something many readers didn't even pick up on in the books. That's the depth of shift in his character. It didn't offend me, but with all the things they decide to cut from the books due to lack of time, this didn't strike me as worthy replacement content.