Can "punching down" humor ever work?

[eyenon15]

The best ones just punch, regardless of up or down aiming

[karaddin]

How on earth is that tosh one not being a dickhole? An audience member objecting to a rape joke is not regular heckling, responding in that way is fucking disgusting and so is laughing at it.

Eyenon - what is inherently funny about a person falling down? I don't find that immediately funny, my response is compassion and concern. But I guess that concern for someone instead of laughing at them makes me humourless.

As for this

I think comedy is about punching in any direction. Modern western liberal sensibilities condemn punching down to the point where many people internalized the condemnation. It's fine because there's still many places and situations where punching up is dangerous.

On a slightly related note.

What the fuck? So because it's dangerous to make fun of Putin, that would make it morally fine to mock those silly homosexuals and transsexuals, people the audience may leave the comedy act and decide to beat up if they see, possibly to death?

I'm not humourless, the shit you all find funny is just fucked up and cruel.

[Tears of Lys]

When I catch one of those "funniest videos" on TV or the Internet where people are being hit in the crotch or crashing violently, my gut reaction is to cringe, not laugh. I've noticed they're even showing them with little kids getting hurt.

Not funny.

[eyenon15]

How on earth is that tosh one not being a dickhole? An audience member objecting to a rape joke is not regular heckling, responding in that way is fucking disgusting and so is laughing at it.

Eyenon - what is inherently funny about a person falling down? I don't find that immediately funny, my response is compassion and concern. But I guess that concern for someone instead of laughing at them makes me humourless.

I don't know what you think regular heckling is but an audience member making the show about them and their views is pretty not acceptable. People didn't pay to see her broadcast her opinions, they paid to see Tosh tell some jokes.

IMO, he was completely justified In shutting the person up as quickly as possible before it got out of hand.

if everyone in a crowd of people feels entitled to blurt out whatever opinions they have, a riot can and has escalated quick.

and yeh, I get it you are better than everyone and have never laughed at any type of accident.

many of us find things funny, like on wrestling when the Shockmaster tripped as he was making his entrance into the arena, it was one of the funniest things I've ever seen, but yeh I get it, you are superior for not laughing.

People even do fake falls just to get a laugh, Chevy Chase was notorious for it.

Tom and Jerry cartoons were almost nothing but Tom tripping over rakes and shit

[Liffguard]

I think the "punching up/down" framing does highlight something important but the model is a little too simplistic to cover the situation.

Like, when Inigima is talking about it earlier, I think he really covers the idea well. It's not that you can't make fun of people with less power/privilege then you in society, I think it's more that you can't do so in a way that feels like you are just being mean. Because then you just look like a dickhole.

I think the key point is more seen in the idea of punching up, in that you can be alot crueller in your jokes to people with more power/privilege/etc then you because the fact of their power makes it seem less like you are just being an asshole.

So maybe more that you can punch down, you just have to be more careful about it or it won't be funny.

I'd also add that it depends on what the actual punch-line of the joke is and how it relates to the balance of power. So, say there was a rich CEO who was also paraplegic. Most people would (hopefully) think it was pretty uncool to make fun of them with a punch-line that boiled down to "ha ha you can't walk" even though a wealthy CEO is going to be more powerful/rpiveleged than most of the people making fun of them. But a joke that was basically "ha ha you're a greedy out-of-touch fatcat" would be ok.

[Commodore]

SJWs trolling for grievances is exhausting

if you let someone's words offend you, that's a you problem

[Liffguard]

Remember everybody, if someone is being a dick to you, it's your fault.

[mormont]

I don't know what you think regular heckling is but an audience member making the show about them and their views is pretty not acceptable. People didn't pay to see her broadcast her opinions, they paid to see Tosh tell some jokes.

IMO, he was completely justified In shutting the person up as quickly as possible before it got out of hand.

if everyone in a crowd of people feels entitled to blurt out whatever opinions they have, a riot can and has escalated quick.

So if I'm getting this right: a comedian telling offensive jokes is fine and has no consequences for which they should be held responsible. But a heckler objecting to those jokes is not only unacceptable but also incredibly dangerous as it could cause a riot.

Ever get the feeling you might be guilty of a double standard?

[HexMachina]

SJWs trolling for grievances is exhausting

if you let someone's words offend you, that's a you problem

...not sure if you are serious. For the sake of my rising temper, I'm going to assume not,.

[eyenon15]

So if I'm getting this right: a comedian telling offensive jokes is fine and has no consequences for which they should be held responsible. But a heckler objecting to those jokes is not only unacceptable but also incredibly dangerous as it could cause a riot.

Ever get the feeling you might be guilty of a double standard?

No one is paying an audience member to give their opinion on what is offensive.

If the show was promoted as "Daniel Tosh and special guest to give their opinion on whats funny" then that would be different.

There's always some way that anyone can find something offensive about any live show, play, talk show, anything can be found offensive. Doesn't mean you are entitled to stop the show just to blurt out your opinion on what is offensive.

People didn't pay to see random audience members give opinions, they pay for the show.

[Theda Baratheon]

Dennis' Implication in It's Always Sunny is fckin hilarious but all of the Gang in that show are obviously being portrayed as terrible people which they are. I did find the joke funny in This is The End because it wasn't mocking rape victims it was funny because one of the guys wants to talk about the "elephant in the room" that bcus emma watson is the only girl in a group of men and he doesnt want her to feel uncomfortable so says to the rest of the guys not to give a "rapey vibe" and finding none of them had even thought about that and hes the rapey one for mentioning it and then of course emma watson hears them, threatens to beat the crap out of them with a baseball bat and steals all their shit hahahha. Neither joke is an example of "punching down" at all. And the joke is on the expense of the guys not rape victims.

[Relic]

Works for roasts, such as the Shatner roast, which had me rolling at times. And I find Triumph the Insult Comic Dog occasionally hilarious.

[Relic]

...not sure if you are serious. For the sake of my rising temper, I'm going to assume not,.

Oh he's serious. Better to ignore than engage in any sort of conversation.

[Commodore]

...not sure if you are serious. For the sake of my rising temper, I'm going to assume not,.

I was serious, and your post proves my point

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

How on earth is that tosh one not being a dickhole? An audience member objecting to a rape joke is not regular heckling, responding in that way is fucking disgusting and so is laughing at it.

Eyenon - what is inherently funny about a person falling down? I don't find that immediately funny, my response is compassion and concern. But I guess that concern for someone instead of laughing at them makes me humourless.

As for this

What the fuck? So because it's dangerous to make fun of Putin, that would make it morally fine to mock those silly homosexuals and transsexuals, people the audience may leave the comedy act and decide to beat up if they see, possibly to death?

I'm not humourless, the shit you all find funny is just fucked up and cruel.

No I said I was fine with restrictions on punching down since in other places there are more restrictions on punching up.

[butterbumps!]

actually, the rape "joke" Tosh told in the comedy club in response to the heckler wasn't even what I was referring to when I brought him up as an example of this. I kind of think that while Tosh was wrong, so was the heckler-- that's a situation with no heroes there, as comedy clubs have kind of a different set of rules and expectation.

What I was thinking of was way more in line with the DJ's joke from the OP. Tosh has this thing where he challenges guys to go out and record the reactions of girls when you pinch the excess weight around their midsections. As in, "hahaha how hilarious is it that when you grab the fat from around a girl's midsection, they get all embarrassed and ashamed and apologetic!!! how fucking funny this is!!!"

So that, to me, is an analogous example to what Kat introduced as "punching down"- where it's a more privileged speaker, who nastily (and invasively, in this Tosh case) delivers a punchline that's essentially that women should feel shame for having bodies that don't meet a certain standard of perfection and that laughing about these well-deserved ashamed reactions is also hilarious, such that it further contributes to and reinforces these sexist ideas with no trace of critique about sexism or unrealistic beauty expectations or anything like that (that I've ever seen, at least).

I don't think there's necessarily a moral imperative about whether something "should" be funny. It's just that I really do genuinely think that the vast majority of people simply empathize far too much with the target of harmful attempts at humor like the downpunch to find it funny.

A lot of humor is definitely rooted in laughing at another's misfortune, whether it's slipping on a banana peel or some character flaw or foible or whataver the case may be. But most of us laugh at another's misfortune when there's no real harm actually done. Like, bully-humor, which is exactly what "down punching" is, just isn't something that a lot of people really find genuinely amusing past a certain age (or maturity level, I suppose). Again, I think the laughter is much closer to a sense of relief at not being targeted one's self and a juvenile form of dominance to feel somehow socially superior to some other group of people.

[Liffguard]

Dennis' Implication in It's Always Sunny is fckin hilarious but all of the Gang in that show are obviously being portrayed as terrible people which they are. I did find the joke funny in This is The End because it wasn't mocking rape victims it was funny because one of the guys wants to talk about the "elephant in the room" that bcus emma watson is the only girl in a group of men and he doesnt want her to feel uncomfortable so says to the rest of the guys not to give a "rapey vibe" and finding none of them had even thought about that and hes the rapey one for mentioning it and then of course emma watson hears them, threatens to beat the crap out of them with a baseball bat and steals all their shit hahahha. Neither joke is an example of "punching down" at all. And the joke is on the expense of the guys not rape victims.

Agreed, I think it's worth making the distinction that a joke can be about a particular subject without making that subject the actual butt of the joke. You can make jokes that involve rape as a topic without making fun of rape victims.

[HexMachina]

Oh he's serious. Better to ignore than engage in any sort of conversation.

Hm. Thanks for the heads up. The phrase victim blaming sprang to mind, but you're right. Best not to get into it.

[Commodore]

Hm. Thanks for the heads up. The phrase victim blaming sprang to mind, but you're right. Best not to get into it.

In most instances, I don't accept the premise of victimhood to begin with.

But you're right, best not get into it, lest there be some real disagreement. Don't want to offend anyone.

[Typhoon Swell]

I believe you can joke about anything. It all depends on the context.