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I don't know if it's been mentioned, but I just find it hilarious how much of a Stark magnet Brienne is. She needs to give some of her mojo to her book counterpart. Book Bri has been looking for Arya and Sansa for a decade, to no avail, and show Bri randomly bumps into both, unintentionally, within the span of two episodes, heh.


Edited by Bastard of Boston

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It wouldn't be any different in Westeros. She didn't grow up there, either...nor is she familiar with the laws and customs (other than vicariously, which is never the same thing).

Every leader faces impossible decisions. There are no right and wrong choices...sometimes, just bad and worse.

The real problem is that Dany took the city by force by having the slaves revolt against the leaders- without having any plans for how to restore the government once it fell. Now she's struggling to strike a balance. You can't tell the slaves "Rise up against your Masters and I will free you!" and then execute a former slave for killing a man working for those Masters without alienating the people who put you in power in the first place. Just like Robb, she chose the "lawful" path, but also the path that costs her the most.

She's not politically minded, and neither is her small council. She needs an advisor who is...Selmy is a great KG, but he doesn't know how to spin things the way that someone like Tyrion does. Guess we'll see what comes of that in the future.

It would be different in Westeros though. She wouldn't be trying to change a thousands of years old culture.

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There is a gargantuan difference between not going well, and comparing her to Joffrey.

Jon struggles to rule during ADWD too, but somehow I doubt you'll jump to comparing him to Joffrey. His people tried to kill him too. So again the only difference is swinging the sword himself? That's just stupid.

Yep.

Executing a man for disobeying your order if GOOD is you swing the sword yourself.

Executing a man for disobeying your order (and committing murder) is BAD if you have someone else swing the sowrd

makes sense to me.

:rolleyes:

Edited by El Guapo

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It would be different in Westeros though. She wouldn't be trying to change a thousands of years old culture.

You know what the irony truly is? More than half the people in Meereen don't belong in Meereen, they were dragged there by slavers.

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I liked the episode. I guess I really just see the show and book as different entities and it makes it so much easier maybe? I don't know. Maybe I'm just easy to please. I really liked Dany's story so much more here. Using her struggles in Mereen to convey information about Aerys was brilliant. They managed to make Dany look far more competent in one episode than most of ADWD. Sometimes, I think not being in her head helps.



I don't think it is realistic to expect Dany to literally swing the sword. First of all, chopping off a head isn't exactly easy. There is a reason good executioners were prized. And you don't want to mess that up. I can see her trying to hack away at the poor man if she tried. She was standing right there while someone she had been close to begged her for mercy, while the people she had risked so much for shouted for mercy and she still delivered justice. Go Show!Dany. I like you so much more than your book counterpart. And Drogon! Wow, we've gotten Ghost and all 3 dragons so far.



Lyanna Mormont, you are my hero. I'm so glad they included that, especially if we aren't getting the Manderley thing. I liked Aemon casting the deciding vote. In a way, that is good for Jon b/c no one is really going to gainsay Aemon.



Interesting talk about the greyscale...makes me really wonder how that is going to eventually be a part of things. Those mentions aren't thrown in there for nothing, methinks.


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I like that the show is making a big deal of each young leader's first beheading, which allows us to draw all sorts of comparisons. Joffrey beheaded Ned, Theon beheaded Roderick, Robb beheaded Karstark, Dany beheaded Mossador, and Jon is about to behead Slynt. The decision to behead and the aftermath are defining points for each ruler. We get to see each leader expressing their ideals when the stakes are high. And the decision is an extremely dangerous one - beheadings make enemies.



The show has been playing up the Pycelle / Cersei animosity for a while now. I wonder if Pycelle is going to turn on Cersei this season. Maybe Pycelle decides to side with the Tyrells?



So sweet that Shireen's goal in life appears to be teaching people how to read. I was hoping she's have a scene with Sam this season. I wonder if Jon and Davos will conspire to have Sam and Gilly take Shireen? That's probably too optimistic.



I had predicted that Cersei would try to avoid appointing a new Hand, which seems to be what she's doing. Mace tried to get the job, but Cersei fobbed him off with Master of Coin and announced that Tommen would appoint a new Hand at some point in the future. That makes a lot more sense to me than bringing in a weak character to be the new Hand.


Edited by Janicia

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Season 5 might be as bad as Season 2. Based on what I am watching, IF they decide to have any following of the books, this might be what happens:



- Once Cersie is imprisoned, a little bird informs Varys and he says farewell to Tyrion to head back to King's Landing because Kevin is doing too much good. Maybe he leaves Tyrios with Quentyn Martell? Maybe Doran speaks that his son is on a very important mission in one scene?



- IF Jon sends Sam and Aemon off to the Citadel, Jaqen (disguised as whomever) somehow joins then after they port in Braavos, leaving Arya to train at THOB&W.



- Since they stupidly left out Lady Stoneheart, I hope they at least have Jaime and Bronn decide to bring the head of Gregor with them as a gift to Doran Martell.



So many balls have been dropped in just 2 episodes. Would it have killed them to have a crow fly in and land on Jon's shoulder and cry "Snow, Snow!" to convince Aemon to cast his vote for Jon? Would have been simple and highly affective as opposed to the anti-climactic crap we got to see.



I assume the Ironborn are over and done with all together? They just gave up and went fishing, I guess.


Edited by A Redeemed Hound

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It would be different in Westeros though. She wouldn't be trying to change a thousands of years old culture.

...and what makes you think that? There's an entrenched and unfair class system in Westeros, just as there is in Essos...do you think she would be happier with the nobility of Westeros mistreating those underneath them than she is with Masters and Slaves? I sure as hell don't.

It would be just the same in the end if she doesn't learn how politics work. Right now, she doesn't. And until she does, she's not going to be an effective ruler, no matter where she is.

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Season 4 might be as bad as Season 2. Based on what I am watching, IF they decide to have any following of the books, this might be what happens:

This is season 5.

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Hello again all! Here's why this weeks episode sucked:

-Shortening Arya's list and removing Illyn, Dunsen, and Raff. She talked about them in seasons 1 and 2. Are we just supposed to forget they existed? How dumb do D&D think their audience is?

-Arya just giving up at the House of Black and White and going back to season 1 where she wanders around the streets and murders animals.

-Brienne just randomly running into LF and Sansa at some sort of tavern, again as if Westeros is the size of Disneyland. And as if the Lord of the Eyrie eating there wouldn't shut everything down. Plus everybody just fully knowing and accepting that this is Sansa. Do D&D understand she's a wanted fugitive and LF is keeping her a SECRET?

-Sansa being an asshole to Brienne for no absolutely reason. In the books she's a pawn of Littlefinger because she has no other choice. Wtf are they doing to her with this whole "dark sansa" crap?

-Superhero Brienne, mightiest in Westeros. First she easily defeats Jaime, then the Hound, now she can cut through steel with 1 hand. She's not even that strong in the books, simply able to compete with men. Enough with the stronk independent wymz crap D&D

-Changing Jon's reason for refusing being legitimized. In the books it's because if he was legitimized by a follower of the Red God instead of the Old Gods, the entire North wouldn't accept him. Because that actually made sense. D&D had to dumb it down, though.

-Jaime's Dorne mission makes no sense. If you want Mycrella back, write that you want her back or at least send your own men to protect her in Dorne (which is what Cersei does in the books because she's not retarded). What does Jaime hope to accomplish exactly? They'll either say yes or no, and a Lannister traveling there right after Oberyn's death is even more retarded. Plus Jaime never gave a crap about Cersei's kids in the books and doesn't consider them his own because he never raised them.

-Ellaria Sand going from the voice of reason and restraint in the books to being a violent maniac who even casually threatens Doran for no reason. This is why the season needed Arianne, but D&D cut her for no reason.

-Varys in general. Show Varys is far too nice, far too sincerely flattering, and in love with Tyrion for some reason. What is he even doing with Tyrion anyway? He's called the Spider for a reason, he has agents everywhere to do this kind of shit for him. I miss the menacing, morally dubious, ruthless Varys of the books.

-The fucking box speech. You can tell that much like the Beetles Speech, D&D thought this was the most brilliant shit ever and demonstrates they don't need book dialogue. But it's just fucking banal and stupid.

-Mace Tyrell as Master of Ships. Is it really that hard to include Paxter Redwyne when you introduce all these fucking stupid show-only characters? What does Mace know about ships anyway? Highgarden is fucking landlocked. Oh and he's also Master of Coin you say? How the fuck is somebody supposed to do both of these jobs at once? D&D are scared of book characters apparently, maybe they take away from their brilliant show-creations like Ramsay's annoying out of place girlfriend

-Qyburn as Hand of the King. A deranged disgraced Maester as Hand? Not even book Cersei is this stupid. It's tantamount to when Aerys made Rosart his Hand.

-"Master of War". Oh gee, D&D made up a new Small Council position. Treating it like it's a fucking defense ministry instead of a feudal army system.

-Queen Selyse running around Castle Black without her Queen's Men. The whole point of Selyse at the Wall is how out of place and uncomfortable she is there.

-Sam the Slayer being used as an insult instead of a term of respect like it is in the books. D&D fucked up the whole slaying scene, then take away the entire point of its aftermath. Bravo.

-Hizdhar being some whiny sycophant of Daenerys instead of the scheming bastard he is in the books. And no, there's no indication the show has any intention of going this way with the character

-Are they really stupid enough to make the Son of the Harpy ONE guy in the show? They're the SONS of the Harpy. They're an insurgency. First D&D have Yunkai immediately surrender, then they reduce her resistance to 1 guy. What exactly is she supposed to do this season when you take out both of her primary ADWD confrontations? Get eaten out by Daario and whine about muh dragons?

-This whole trial shit. Oh l o fucking l. Dany crucifies people on the way to Meereen and all of a sudden is obsessed with giving people a fair trial for absolutely no reason.

-Oh top of that, when this guy kills the Harpy she just goes and executes him without a trial. So Dany is obsessed with fair trials for her enemies suddenly, but disregards it when one of her own does something bad. Bravo D&D, this is true brilliant writing. What were they trying to accomplish her anyway? It's a fucking EXACT repeat of the Robb-Karstark storyline from A Storm of Swords. Have they run out of ideas for their genius "original content"?

-HSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. Most unintentionally funny thing of the series so far. How goddamn ridiculous.

I'll be here all season. Weekly reminder that the show has been shit since season 2 and the books are better.

:agree:

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Observation:

Two of Dany's Dothraki, not sure if they are consistent about the extras.

For the first time a Second Son , not at a distance , with Daario.

Second Sons don't seem to stand around in the throne room.

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After seeing the scene with Jon being elected commander of the night's watch, I am 100% certain that he is going to get stabbed in the back in the last ep. The resulting meltdown from the unsullied should be glorious.


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I like that the show is making a big deal of each young leader's first beheading, which allows us to draw all sorts of comparisons. Joffrey beheaded Ned, Theon beheaded Roderick, Robb beheaded Karstark, Dany beheaded Mossador, and Jon is about to behead Slynt. The decision to behead and the aftermath are defining points for each ruler. We get to see each leader expressing their ideals when the stakes are high. And the decision is an extremely dangerous one - beheadings make enemies.

:agree: As it should!

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Hello again all! Here's why this weeks episode sucked:

-Shortening Arya's list and removing Illyn, Dunsen, and Raff. She talked about them in seasons 1 and 2. Are we just supposed to forget they existed? How dumb do D&D think their audience is?

-Arya just giving up at the House of Black and White and going back to season 1 where she wanders around the streets and murders animals.

-Brienne just randomly running into LF and Sansa at some sort of tavern, again as if Westeros is the size of Disneyland. And as if the Lord of the Eyrie eating there wouldn't shut everything down. Plus everybody just fully knowing and accepting that this is Sansa. Do D&D understand she's a wanted fugitive and LF is keeping her a SECRET?

-Sansa being an asshole to Brienne for no absolutely reason. In the books she's a pawn of Littlefinger because she has no other choice. Wtf are they doing to her with this whole "dark sansa" crap?

-Superhero Brienne, mightiest in Westeros. First she easily defeats Jaime, then the Hound, now she can cut through steel with 1 hand. She's not even that strong in the books, simply able to compete with men. Enough with the stronk independent wymz crap D&D

-Changing Jon's reason for refusing being legitimized. In the books it's because if he was legitimized by a follower of the Red God instead of the Old Gods, the entire North wouldn't accept him. Because that actually made sense. D&D had to dumb it down, though.

-Jaime's Dorne mission makes no sense. If you want Mycrella back, write that you want her back or at least send your own men to protect her in Dorne (which is what Cersei does in the books because she's not retarded). What does Jaime hope to accomplish exactly? They'll either say yes or no, and a Lannister traveling there right after Oberyn's death is even more retarded. Plus Jaime never gave a crap about Cersei's kids in the books and doesn't consider them his own because he never raised them.

-Ellaria Sand going from the voice of reason and restraint in the books to being a violent maniac who even casually threatens Doran for no reason. This is why the season needed Arianne, but D&D cut her for no reason.

-Varys in general. Show Varys is far too nice, far too sincerely flattering, and in love with Tyrion for some reason. What is he even doing with Tyrion anyway? He's called the Spider for a reason, he has agents everywhere to do this kind of shit for him. I miss the menacing, morally dubious, ruthless Varys of the books.

-The fucking box speech. You can tell that much like the Beetles Speech, D&D thought this was the most brilliant shit ever and demonstrates they don't need book dialogue. But it's just fucking banal and stupid.

-Mace Tyrell as Master of Ships. Is it really that hard to include Paxter Redwyne when you introduce all these fucking stupid show-only characters? What does Mace know about ships anyway? Highgarden is fucking landlocked. Oh and he's also Master of Coin you say? How the fuck is somebody supposed to do both of these jobs at once? D&D are scared of book characters apparently, maybe they take away from their brilliant show-creations like Ramsay's annoying out of place girlfriend

-Qyburn as Hand of the King. A deranged disgraced Maester as Hand? Not even book Cersei is this stupid. It's tantamount to when Aerys made Rosart his Hand.

-"Master of War". Oh gee, D&D made up a new Small Council position. Treating it like it's a fucking defense ministry instead of a feudal army system.

-Queen Selyse running around Castle Black without her Queen's Men. The whole point of Selyse at the Wall is how out of place and uncomfortable she is there.

-Sam the Slayer being used as an insult instead of a term of respect like it is in the books. D&D fucked up the whole slaying scene, then take away the entire point of its aftermath. Bravo.

-Hizdhar being some whiny sycophant of Daenerys instead of the scheming bastard he is in the books. And no, there's no indication the show has any intention of going this way with the character

-Are they really stupid enough to make the Son of the Harpy ONE guy in the show? They're the SONS of the Harpy. They're an insurgency. First D&D have Yunkai immediately surrender, then they reduce her resistance to 1 guy. What exactly is she supposed to do this season when you take out both of her primary ADWD confrontations? Get eaten out by Daario and whine about muh dragons?

-This whole trial shit. Oh l o fucking l. Dany crucifies people on the way to Meereen and all of a sudden is obsessed with giving people a fair trial for absolutely no reason.

-Oh top of that, when this guy kills the Harpy she just goes and executes him without a trial. So Dany is obsessed with fair trials for her enemies suddenly, but disregards it when one of her own does something bad. Bravo D&D, this is true brilliant writing. What were they trying to accomplish her anyway? It's a fucking EXACT repeat of the Robb-Karstark storyline from A Storm of Swords. Have they run out of ideas for their genius "original content"?

-HSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. Most unintentionally funny thing of the series so far. How goddamn ridiculous.

I'll be here all season. Weekly reminder that the show has been shit since season 2 and the books are better.

For the most part, I agree. D&D are constantly trying to correct what they see (sometimes with very good reason) to be problems that GRRM created, and end up creating even worse problems. At least GRRM is far more consistent when it comes to characters' motivations. Any time you can't understand WHY someone is doing something is a huge problem for me.

I'm pretty sure D&D understand that Sansa's identity/location are supposed to be secret, because the mentioned it explicitly in ep. 5.1. Which only makes your complaint about it that much more valid. It's an egregious error demonstrating that there are times that D&D put no thought into their plotting decisions. Sansa's being an asshole to Brienne is exactly what I meant about not understanding a character's motives. A glaring example. Well chosen.

"Jaime never gave a crap about Cersei's kids in the books " - on that point I have to disagree. There is a chapter in AFfC where Jaime is so longing to be the children's father that he strongly contemplates going public with the twincest - even knowing that that would bring down the House of Lannister and probably the realm.

It seems to me that Selyse and Shireen get far too much air time in comparison to the books, and it has no bearing on the plot. Like a lot of D&D's variations, this is a case of servicing the actors instead of the story, which is never likely to end well.

The worst cases of this, IMnsHO, are with Varys and Littlefinger. Especially true of Aiden Gillan, who is highly overrated. D&D seem to like him because he had a part in "The Wire" which was one of HBO's most highly acclaimed series. But Gillan's Baltimore mayor was far from being one of the compelling characters or performances in that drama. It's like the show's well-deserved reputation rubbed off on Gillan, who didn't earn it.

What kind of professional actor changes the way the character speaks from one episode to the next? At one point he was talking in a raspy voice worthy of Batman. And over time he has adopted a quasi-Irish accent that wasn't there at the beginning of the show. I know, they shoot in Northern Ireland, but as an actor he should be immune to that influence. When he gets to Winterfell (which is where he and Sansa seem to be heading) is he going to adopt a Scottish brogue? Gawd help us if D&D take him north of the Wall, he'll be speaking an Inuit dialect.

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I'm just glad the show will conclude before the books. All the show haters will still be hating even then, but I can't wait to laugh in face of book purists. :)

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How is this ^ not considered trolling and flamebait?

It is trolling. What do trolls want? They want reaction from people. In the future don't even respond or quote anything he posts. Just ignore it.

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I'm pretty sure D&D understand that Sansa's identity/location are supposed to be secret, because the mentioned it explicitly in ep. 5.1. Which only makes your complaint about it that much more valid. It's an egregious error demonstrating that there are times that D&D put no thought into their plotting decisions. Sansa's being an asshole to Brienne is exactly what I meant about not understanding a character's motives. A glaring example. Well chosen.

If Brienne and Pod never came into that tavern nobody in that tavern would have known that Sansa Stark or Petyr Baelish were ever there. It was the same thing when Catelyn was traveling incognito back in season one, nobody recognized her until Tyrion walked in the place.

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Hmmm. Think the new Brienne/Pod plot and the Jaime/Dorne material is maybe starting to make the people who championed Stoneheart + Riverlands feel a little better. Erm ... because that plot WAS better. Still can't believe it's all been cut. Was a fan of most of the book changes until the end of season 4.

Dorne was hugely disappointing, imo, especially Ellaria having apparently morphed into a cartoon villain with different (or more exaggerated?) accent. Vengeance for what? For trial by combat Oberyn volunteered himself for? Awful scripting.

HOB&W ... hmmmm. Big old block of CG on the horizon looked a bit conspicuous.

Liked the election scene but as some have already noted it really needed more emotional resonance at conclusion like we got with Robb being chosen as King in The North - perhaps the Stark theme soaring to crescendo with Jon briefly thinking back to the last time he rode away from Ned en route to The Wall, for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diZPm20DdLM

Would've cost nothing to bolt onto the end of that scene in post but given it so much more power.

Also, whilst I applaud them trying to get a few more "emoting" facial expressions out of Drogon in the final scene, the end result was some of the worst dragon cg on the show to date and at best, a throwback to Dragonheart.

7/10.

Next time we see each other we'll talk about your mother: Jon and Ned talk via a coma dream?

Think they do that in a show?

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