Why did Sandor follow Joffrey so loyally until the fire in the battle of blackwater?

[Parizad]

Sandor protects Sansa to some extent but other than that he is Joff's pawn in his cruelties. Why is he so loyal to him? It seems he hates Joff as much as everyone else.

[The Holy Goat]

Sandor is a sworn sword, in it for money and the chance to kill things. With money he can buy booze and hookers which is what he seem to want out of life. It's not like Sandor is a pillar of morality in this series.

And did he hate Joffrey? It never seemed like that to me. He knew what kind of monster Joffrey was, but it didn't seem like he cared to much about that.

[Nerevanin]

Dogs are loyal. I'd say there are 2 main reasons: He swore to do it so it was a question of his honor or something like that and being in Joffrey's service protected him from his brother.

[Eddard Scissorhands]

Dogs are loyal. I'd say there are 2 main reasons: He swore to do it so it was a question of his honor or something like that and being in Joffrey's service protected him from his brother.

Good.observation.

1st on I'm not sure, but you may be on to something with the 2nd one.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

Sandor was paid to be loyal to Joff. It was an easy job as long as war wasn't involved. Sandor's biggest fear wasn't dying, it was burning. He was watching all those men burn to death and his fear took over. It wasn't worth it to him to get burned like that just for a bit of gold. He had tolerated Joff before Sansa came, but once he fell in love with Sansa, Joff's cruelty towards her made it much easier for him to walk away from Joff.

He didn't really just want whores, he wanted love. He didn't think he would ever find it with his face disfigured by the burn his brother inflicted on him, so that is what he settled for. He is finding some peace at the Quiet Isle, but I do hope and pray that he will come back and find love with Sansa.

I know so many people think that theory is crackpot, but I'm a sucker for a good love story. Beauty and the Beast as it were.

[Aemond's Eye]

I think the Stark girls awakened Sandor Clegane; he had been The Hound for so long, and something about them ignited a spark. (Perhaps they reminded him of his own sister, rumoured to have been killed by Gregor. If that is the case then I imagine Sandor wishes he could have protected her, and in turn starts to keep an eye on the sisters Stark.) Even before fleeing King's Landing he puts a stop to a public humiliation of Sansa, and doesn't seem to stop to care whether Joffrey was annoyed; that could have ended badly for him. By then I think he was tiring of being The Hound. He seems to not mind Tommen and Myrcella, but dislikes the rest of the family. The Lannisters gave him work after he left his own family lands, I'd say there was a sense of loyalty there that Joffrey slowly eroded over time. The Blackwater was the straw that broke the camel's back, but it was going to happen soon enough.

I wonder what he'd have made of Bran. Bran wanted to be a knight, and as a boy we can guess that Sandor did too. Would Bran also remind Sandor of the past?

[OmnomnomPomelo]

I always thought it was like that coz Sandor was the 2nd son of a little house, will inherit nothing, he'll be only a warrior his whole life. They got lands from the Lannisters so they supposed to be loyal to them. Gregor was a soldier of Tywin for many years, someone was needed to guard Joffrey and probably Cersei wanted someone who is strong, skilled and loyal so she picked Sandor Clegane.

It was pleasant for him. Was living in King's Landing as the prince's sworn sword, bodyguard, so probably got nice food, wine and a bed to sleep on for free. All he had to do is stay near Joffrey. Totally worth it!

[Fightbringer]

I always thought it was like that coz Sandor was the 2nd son of a little house, will inherit nothing, he'll be only a warrior his whole life. They got lands from the Lannisters so they supposed to be loyal to them. Gregor was a soldier of Tywin for many years, someone was needed to guard Joffrey and probably Cersei wanted someone who is strong, skilled and loyal so she picked Sandor Clegane.

It was pleasant for him. Was living in King's Landing as the prince's sworn sword, bodyguard, so probably got nice food, wine and a bed to sleep on for free. All he had to do is stay near Joffrey. Totally worth it!

wouldnt say that sandor is especially loyal, given that he has just abandoned his brother on the day he inherited the Clegane lands(albeit for completely understandable reasons) my question would be why did he choose this route, rather than going to serve as a sellsword in essos? There would probably be a lot more killing, and plunder in it, with sacking cities and all that. Maybe it was because he saw that this option gave him a greater life expectancy, or could have been he wasnt quite heartless enough to do all the rape and pillaging thing with innocent people. Could be either, idk

[LordStoneheart]

I don't think anyone on this forum has ever considered this but perhaps Sandor was just kind of a cunt and a terrible person before he met the Stark girls? Oh and after, since he held a knife to one of their throats and kidnapped the other.

[BalerionTheCat]

He was like a sellsword. Doing things he was paid for. While hating it. Protecting Joffrey or another was the same. He was probably doing it since Joffrey was very young and not so bad. It became very bad only when Joffrey became king and hard decisions came to him. I think killing Mycah had him starting his road to redemption.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Survival.

I don't think anyone on this forum has ever considered this but perhaps Sandor was just kind of a cunt and a terrible person before he met the Stark girls? Oh and after, since he held a knife to one of their throats and kidnapped the other.

He was like Jaime before he met Brienne. He didn't care.

[In A Coat of Gold]

He was sort of a father figure to Joffrey, sad as that is. Joff listened to him and he opreated pretty independently of Joff's orders.

[AllOfTheHours]

I think the truth lies in the Hound's past - between the time he left the Clegane lands and went to Winterfell with the Court of KL. IIRC he was Cersei's sworn sword before he was Joffrey's. His relationship to Cersei and her other children isn't much remarked upon. But assumably, being her sworn sword was pretty mundane back then (especially when Jamie was around, she wouldn't need much protecting) and he watched Joffrey grow up since he was very young. So there were years of character development/service there that we just aren't privy too.

I think it is surprising how his relationship with Joffrey devolves (or basically ceases to exist) so quickly. He didn't even really comment on the fact that Joffrey had been killed when he learned the news, only that Sansa had gotten away. It makes me wonder, how does the Hound truly see himself in the grand scheme of things? What are/were his true motives, and have they really changed dramatically over the course of the books? What does he really feel for the characters around him (Joffrey, Cersei, Sansa, Arya)?

[Aemond's Eye]

wouldnt say that sandor is especially loyal, given that he has just abandoned his brother on the day he inherited the Clegane lands(albeit for completely understandable reasons) my question would be why did he choose this route, rather than going to serve as a sellsword in essos? There would probably be a lot more killing, and plunder in it, with sacking cities and all that. Maybe it was because he saw that this option gave him a greater life expectancy, or could have been he wasnt quite heartless enough to do all the rape and pillaging thing with innocent people. Could be either, idk

I don't get that. It's hinted that Gregor may have killed their sister and father, as well as the confirmed burning of Sandor's face. Is it disloyal to leave your kinslaying brother before he can have the last of the 'threats' to his land killed?

[Dolorous22]

Survival.

He was like Jaime before he met Brienne. He didn't care.

I'd have to say the same. He needed something or someone to turn his head. Before Sansa and the BotBW, most obstacles could either be ignored or killed.

I know so many people think that theory is crackpot, but I'm a sucker for a good love story. Beauty and the Beast as it were.

I don't usually enjoy romance but their love would be awesome, I don't think it's crackpot, perhaps just wishful thinking.

[LordStoneheart]

I know so many people think that theory is crackpot, but I'm a sucker for a good love story. Beauty and the Beast as it were.

Nothing says "good love story" like a forcing a girl down onto a bed with a knife at her throat.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Sandor is a sworn sword, in it for money and the chance to kill things. With money he can buy booze and hookers which is what he seem to want out of life. It's not like Sandor is a pillar of morality in this series.

And did he hate Joffrey? It never seemed like that to me. He knew what kind of monster Joffrey was, but it didn't seem like he cared to much about that.

This is the right answer, IMO. He actually seems fond of Joffery, and certainly Joffery was fond of him. He had no desire to leave Lannister service, and actually does seem to enjoy killing for them. Sandor Clegane had completely given up on the world long before the books started. He really didn't allow himself to care about the morality of his or others' actions, and willfully blinded himself to the good in the world. Perhaps he knew deep down, but what difference did that make to people like Mycah? Not a bit. Just like Jaime he was a selfish piece of shit at the time the series started. Both of them have decided to change (assuming he's the Gravedigger, anyway).

Nothing says "good love story" like a forcing a girl down onto a bed with a knife at her throat.

I think some people are personally in to this kind of (Dom/Sub-y) dynamic, so they romanticize it/rationalize it. "Oh he didn't really want to rape her / he just wanted her to comfort him / he was just drunk / he never meants those things he said / he has a heart of gold / it's all an act / etc etc etc". Sansa herself seems to have romanticized him herself, for better or worse, given she actually thinks a kiss occurred... but, it's extremely messy and squicky, and I certainly don't believe pure intentions on the Hound's part. Thus, it shouldn't be read as a romance except in the darkest sense, which I think is exactly why some people like it. And hey it's a fantasy so whatever floats your boat I suppose... Can't say I like it (Sansan) but I can understand where it comes from.

[OldGimletEye]

I think some people are personally in to this kind of (Dom/Sub-y) dynamic, so they romanticize it/rationalize it. "Oh he didn't really want to rape her / he just wanted her to comfort him / he was just drunk / he never meants those things he said / he has a heart of gold / it's all an act / etc etc etc". Sansa herself seems to have romanticized him herself, for better or worse, given she actually thinks a kiss occurred... but, it's extremely messy and squicky, and I certainly don't believe pure intentions on the Hound's part. Thus, it shouldn't be read as a romance except in the darkest sense, which I think is exactly why some people like it. And hey it's a fantasy so whatever floats your boat I suppose... Can't say I like it (Sansan) but I can understand where it comes from.

You are accusing him of attempted rape?

[OldGimletEye]

I don't think anyone on this forum has ever considered this but perhaps Sandor was just kind of a cunt and a terrible person before he met the Stark girls? Oh and after, since he held a knife to one of their throats and kidnapped the other.

Perhaps many have considered your opinions with regard to Sandor to be utter horse shit. I know I do. Newsflash: Just because you find a character boring, doesn't mean they are the worst person in Westeros.

Dogs are loyal. I'd say there are 2 main reasons: He swore to do it so it was a question of his honor or something like that and being in Joffrey's service protected him from his brother.

Yes, I think Sandor did place a big premium on loyalty. He seems to have been pretty proud of how his grandfather earned a knight hood.

With regard to Sandor's loyalty to Joffrey, I think you have to consider that Sandor went to into Lannister service at a very early age because he didn't have much choice. He built his whole life around serving the Lannisters, and most likely, since he was sworn to them, just up and leaving would not be easy for him.

I think it's clear that Sandor eventually soured on Joffre. I think this is pretty much indicated when Sandor mockingly calls Joffre “a brave boy” while crossing into the Red Keep. Also, just before his wounded at the Inn of the Crossroads, I think he didn't care about Joffre's death.

Before Sandor, however, clearly soured on Joffre I think it's not unreasonable to think that Sandor did try to act as Joffre's “big brother” in some kind of way. Sandor probably spent more time around Joffre than any other adult, except maybe for Cersei. And Sandor seems to like kids, if we go by Sandor's reactions to Tommen's jousting attempts at Joffre's nameday tourney. The upshot is that Sandor probably did feel some kind of personal loyalty to Joffre that deterioted with Joffre's increasing cruelty.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

You are accusing him of attempted rape?

Eh, what he did (shove girl to bed with knife to throat) looks like attempted rape/sexual assault to any outsider perspective. Sansa did exactly the right thing to diffuse the situation, but none of us knows what would have happened if she had reacted differently, because none of us knows what was going through his head, since he's not PoV.

We can only conjecture and some choose to conjecture by saying that he was just looking for comfort or he was just drunk. IMO, while those things may be true, neither excuses what he actually did, since to Sansa or any one else that would look like attempted sexual assault.