[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa XIV - North remembers

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Does the "they never consummated" count in the show's setting?

Sure. As a reason to bring to HS to annul the marriage. Just like in the books. I imagine LF is so sure he'll be able to get the marriage annulled because we've seen the HS is rather loose in his moral calibre. LF is probably aware of his visits to his brothels. Let's face it, he ain't no Stark :P Of course, LF may be in for a surprise if when he arrives that Septon is gone and the new one is far more pious.

The comments of Sophie above (Starks are easily manipulated fools so she has to get away from being that) and the original plan of George back in the day (Sansa choosing her child from Joffrey over her family and ruing it) cast a lot of doubts to that, at least for the show.

Surely there wouldn't be enough time for all of that. I think Sophie will marry and bide her time, all the while working against the Boltons. The comments about her own house may speak to her breaking away from LF but not going back to Winterfell. Hard to say at this point.

[JonInVa]

How would somebody as clever as Roose not think Sansa Stark would plunge a knife into his chest at the first opportunity, rather than be the loving daughter-in-law. Seems far-fetched. "Welcome back to your home, Lady Sansa, which I've procured by killing your mother and brother, and with my son's help in destroying all your friends and neighbors".

And for her to actually go through with the marriage, let alone risk getting pregnant with a Bolton heir, plan or no plan, seems preposterous to me.

[The Reckoner]

I'm ready for Sansa to go full-on Grindhouse, except with a crossbow leg instead of the shotgun.

[Mithras]

How would somebody as clever as Roose not think Sansa Stark would plunge a knife into his chest at the first opportunity, rather than be the loving daughter-in-law. Seems far-fetched. "Welcome back to your home, Lady Sansa, which I've procured by killing your mother and brother, and with my son's help in destroying all your friends and neighbors".

And for her to actually go through with the marriage, let alone risk getting pregnant with a Bolton heir, plan or no plan, seems preposterous to me.

Roose Bolton must have had assurances from LF that Sansa will behave. Otherwise, they would have to produce a really false girl.

[Sunrise Nymph]

I'm so sorry for bumping in like this, I tried finding the answers, but won't Sansa being at Winterfell now completely screw up the books plots? I am very accepting of small deviations from the book plots, but this is such a drastic change that I can't really deal with it. Maybe she would have ended up in WF sooner or later, and yes, maybe the Vale plot hasn't been the most interesting (imo), but in the chapter that was released like last week from TWOW she was still in the Vale, so for me that just makes it seem like the show is just completely writing off the books and doing its own thing, OR even worse, jumping to points that they know will come while leaving us the "long way" in the books?

I'm sorry to sound to annoyed and narrow-minded, I guess I was still hoping for a more or less close plot from the books...

(Like how I was really expecting or at least hoping for Jojen Reed to have a big part later in the books, but then they killed him off in the show, and I immediately thought 'oh well… I guess he's not important then" and it just breaks my heart/takes away some of my joy. whine whine)

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

I think Sansa's bit about forming her own house wasnover this episode. Sansa's journey now is back to her roots, her castle, her birthright. LF uses her Stark identity to lure her to Winterfell.

Not necessarily. We know that book Sansa and show Sansa will end in the same place. It is still highly unlikely Sansa gets the North with Rickon, Bran and Robb's Will still in play but unaccounted for. She could end inheriting nothing so setting up her autonomy could lead to that. Notice she doesn't get the red hair back, despite the fact its unnecessary to hide anymore?

[Ser Creighton]

I really don't get the show plan at all. LF says he has Highgarden and Marg, he has the Vale, and really with Marg and Tommen in power he should easily be able to have Sansa pardoned. He says he has to be careful with Cersei because she has powerful friends. Like who? Everyone on the show hates her, hell her uncle just walked out on her, and Marg is now Queen. They can dump everyting on Tyrion and just say she was an unkowing pawn. Highgarden will clearly help given the dirt between then and LF. That should really be it.

They basically dumped all the Blton allies on the show, and Roose mentions he does not have any and that's why they need Sansa. Which is true, it's just Sansa has no use for them. High I have the Queen, Highgarden, the Vale and the North remembers, they remember exactly what you did. That is it, it is game over LF and Sansa can give the northern Lords the Vale, more than enough to destroy the Boltons.

On a side note, Jon forgot to mention to Stannis that Bran is a alive. On the show Jon knows, and that means Jon considered taking Bran's birth right, and he did not do it because he thought what about Bran, who he is not even thinking about anymore. Just his vows. The other thing is, if Jon finds out Sansa is alive, which given how in information now travels by fiber optic lines in Westeros, what is to stop him from telling her Bran is alive? Why didn't Brie mention Arya, maybe a bad time, but she sure wasn't thinking with her head in that scene. But she could also mention it at some point.

I don't get you have a legit Stark in the north with connections and support, and the Boltons with no support or allies, just kill the fuckers and be done with it. The one chip LF has to secure the north he is giving to the Boltons because he wants a Northern alliance. Hey dumb fuck, you have Sansa fucking Stark, that is a northern alliance. Right there, that's it, kind of how Stannis as like hey Jon, give me the North, your a Stark they will fight for you. Well pretty damn sure Sansa is a Stark as well, and she has the support of the Vale and is friends with the Queen. Pretty sure that should all equal the Boltons are fucked, not hey I'll hand over Sansa. There is a reason it's Jeyne in the books and not Sansa. Because LF is not a moron. Sorry but D&D have gone full re****.

[Ser Creighton]

Come to think of it why is Cersei running the Small Council? Tommen doesn't even want her in KL. Why would Marg allow it? Why not name Kevan hand? Cersei is not Queen Regent, Tommen is in full power here and so is Marg, why would Marg allow Cersei to run the small council? How is she even stopping Kevan from talking with Tommen or Marg? Tommen is walking all over the place, he isn;t locked in a room what the hell is going on.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

OR even worse, jumping to points that they know will come while leaving us the "long way" in the books?

Why is this worse? The show only has 70 - 80 hours to tell the story 7 or 8 thousand page books is telling. They have to find ways to jump points but the book has the leisure to take the long way. That's the way of it.

I'm so sorry for bumping in like this, I tried finding the answers, but won't Sansa being at Winterfell now completely screw up the books plots?

It might be clearer if you read the entire thread. There's a thread in the episode 1 that explains a lot too.

[vyshan]

Come to think of it why is Cersei running the Small Council? Tommen doesn't even want her in KL. Why would Marg allow it? Why not name Kevan hand? Cersei is not Queen Regent, Tommen is in full power here and so is Marg, why would Marg allow Cersei to run the small council? How is she even stopping Kevan from talking with Tommen or Marg? Tommen is walking all over the place, he isn;t locked in a room what the hell is going on.

Influence and power. She still has plenty of power currently, and a lot of influence over many important people including Tommen, though that is fading as she decends into paranoia and margaery gains more power and influence.

[Raksha 2014]

Come to think of it why is Cersei running the Small Council? Tommen doesn't even want her in KL. Why would Marg allow it? Why not name Kevan hand? Cersei is not Queen Regent, Tommen is in full power here and so is Marg, why would Marg allow Cersei to run the small council? How is she even stopping Kevan from talking with Tommen or Marg? Tommen is walking all over the place, he isn;t locked in a room what the hell is going on.

Who is ruling Westeros at the moment? Is Tommen king or king in name only until he's older; and if so, who is the regent?

(I did like Tommen last night, he was so thrilled during the wedding, looked like he was thinking 'I am so lucky!'.

At least the confusion in King's Landing should keep Cersei from sending anyone after Sansa. She'll have enough trouble dealing with crazy Ramsey, half-crazy browbeaten gelded Theon, and Roose (who is definitely capable of outsmarting a 17-year-old girl).

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Who is ruling Westeros at the moment? Is Tommen king or king in name only until he's older; and if so, who is the regent?

(I did like Tommen last night, he was so thrilled during the wedding, looked like he was thinking 'I am so lucky!'.

At least the confusion in King's Landing should keep Cersei from sending anyone after Sansa. She'll have enough trouble dealing with crazy Ramsey, half-crazy browbeaten gelded Theon, and Roose (who is definitely capable of outsmarting a 17-year-old girl).

Last week Cersei was definitely acting as Regent and refused to have a Hand named. This week it seems she is only Queen Mother. Margaery made a point of stressing to Tommen "your king. you can do what you want. your mommy will always see you as a baby" so it looks like it's up in the air and we'll find out more in the coming weeks. I wonder if the fact that the new Queen is of age might make a difference regarding having a regent or not.

[Lord Damian]

How would somebody as clever as Roose not think Sansa Stark would plunge a knife into his chest at the first opportunity, rather than be the loving daughter-in-law. Seems far-fetched. "Welcome back to your home, Lady Sansa, which I've procured by killing your mother and brother, and with my son's help in destroying all your friends and neighbors".

And for her to actually go through with the marriage, let alone risk getting pregnant with a Bolton heir, plan or no plan, seems preposterous to me.

yeah, me too, it makes no sense, it certainly does not strike me as getting revenge on the Boltons while she is taking it nightly from Ramsay. It is more or less rubbing (no pun intended) in the attrocities done to her family by the Boltons and unbeknownst to her, Littlefinger as well.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Apparently, the spoiler regarding Sansa's wedding in Episode 6 was false. Brienne, according to the just-released May synopsis, apparently arrives in episode 5 to Winterfell, and Theon does a huge thing for Ramsay in Episode 5 as well. Episode 7 has Sansa looking for Theon, and Episode 8 has Sansa confronting an old friend (Most likely LF, because otherwise, why not outright say it Theon, considering the previous episode's description?)

[dogprivilege]

It could be LF, though he doesn't seem like an "old friend" to me. I'm having trouble of thinking of anyone specific if it's not him or Theon though.

[JonInVa]

MY guess .....

Nothing happens in the vale that is important at all.

Sansa does marry Harry . And thats it. Maybe she is kidnapped and taken north.

Petyr Baelish dies and his plans fail. Rendering the entire storyline useless.

In the show.....

Sansa marries Ramsay, and Theon saves her after he sees a rape

Varys kills Petyr Baelish in KL

In both, Sansa loses her virginity and is separated from Petyr once and for all.

The show just takes a shortcut to this for a Theon-Sansa bonding & for one final scene between LF & Varys.

I'm not so sure Sansa would bond with Theon, as much as Theon taking it upon himself to save her for his own redemption. Having her forgive him for betraying Robb, and her family, and sacking Winterfell would seem hard to imagine IMHO. He could also be the one to let her know her little brothers are alive.

[Jane99]

Yeah. Theon may not have killed Bran and Rickon, but he sure let everyone think he did. Sansa's spent the last couple of years believing that her brothers are dead. All that grief, so that Theon could keep up appearances?

Sansa's not going to forgive him that. She'll no doubt be grateful if he tells her the truth, and help her take down the Bolton's. But once that's done, I can absolutely see her hand him over to someone like Stannis and not be that sorry about it.

[Mithras]

Wait, will Brienne enroll to the flayed man ranks at Winterfell by saying that she swore a vow to slay Stannis?

[Ser Wun Wun]

Apparently, the spoiler regarding Sansa's wedding in Episode 6 was false. Brienne, according to the just-released May synopsis, apparently arrives in episode 5 to Winterfell, and Theon does a huge thing for Ramsay in Episode 5 as well. Episode 7 has Sansa looking for Theon, and Episode 8 has Sansa confronting an old friend (Most likely LF, because otherwise, why not outright say it Theon, considering the previous episode's description?)

I think the old friend she confronts is Theon. Weird that it doesn't outright state that, but she was looking for him in E7 and presumably he avoids her, so she finally confronts him in E8 imo. Should be a good scene.

And "Brienne waits for a sign"...a sign from Sansa perhaps? It seems to me, based on the descriptions, that Sansa is the one actively trying to organize her own escape from Winterfell and the Boltons/LF. Talking with Brienne secretly, trying to coax Theon to stop being Reek. If so, that would mitigate my extreme disapointment at her being under the power of a psychopath again. Since her actively plotting to get herself out of it this time would mean her whole "transformation" at the end of S4 wasn't just superficial.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Wait, will Brienne enroll to the flayed man ranks at Winterfell by saying that she swore a vow to slay Stannis?

I think there's a possibility for this. Since the synopsis outright says Brienne bides her time in episode seven.