How did Donal Noye lose his arm?

[The Reckoner]

Bloodraven warged it. It walked off and never came back.

[Morienthar]

He misplaced it.

[BitsOfBrains]

Blacksmiths especially master armorers like Donal Noye are extremely valuable and important.

The only situation I can see him in direct combat or is if they were repelling an assault that was dire enough to call every able body to the walls. It's the wwii equivalent of the cooks and mechanics taking up arms.

Self canabalism is nonsense. People kill other people and eat them before they eat themselves

Noye wouldn't be pulling sentry duty or some such where he could have caught a stray arrow.

It had to be during an assault by climbers or some such.

[Modesty Lannister]

He may have contracted greyscale. The only reason people voluntarily chop off their limbs in the books is greyscale. And since Storm's End was under siege, the only way to stop the epidemics would be a quick amputation.

[Consigliere]

Greyscale seems unlikely. I don't think that it is necessary to overthink things. Much more likely that he was wounded in a skirmish, the wound became infected and his arm had to be amputated.

[Modesty Lannister]

Greyscale seems unlikely. I don't think that it is necessary to overthink things. Much more likely that he was wounded in a skirmish, the wound became infected and his arm had to be amputated.

Why does greyscale seem less likely than being wounded in a skirmish? What skirmish? Storm's End was under siege. There were no skirmishes. I understand you have your own scenario. You haven't even explained what that scenario entails. And you jump at my throat. Why? What has my idea have to do with yours? Nothing. They are equal guesses as to what may have happened.

[Lord Lannister]

There's much more to siege warfare than just one side sitting in the castle and the other being camped outside it. The besieging army, even if not flat out assaulting the castle, would keep up pressure on the defenders. Catapults and ballistas would routinely be bombarding the castle. Archers would creep in close to try and snipe at the guards. Companies would be sent to probe for weaknesses in the defenses. This constant pressure would be happening during all hours of the day and night, forcing the defenders to remain constantly vigilant and face exhaustion as well as hunger. So all of these would present opportunities for Noye to be injured and possibly for infection to kick in given he'd likely be exhausted and starving and thus already weaker to start with.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Why does greyscale seem less likely than being wounded in a skirmish? What skirmish? Storm's End was under siege. There were no skirmishes. I understand you have your own scenario. You haven't even explained what that scenario entails. And you jump at my throat. Why? What has my idea have to do with yours? Nothing. They are equal guesses as to what may have happened.

He didn't jump at your throat.

As to yours vs his? Are you really going to try to compare the likelihood of combat during a siege vs an adult getting greyscale in a castle or environment not known for it? We've got Cressen's POV and he was there during the siege as well as treated Shireen. If Donal Noye contracted what is largely a childhood/environmental disease, he likely would have mentioned it.

And we also know that Mace set up mangonels to attack SE during the WO5K. That he wouldn't have done something similar, especially with seemingly more competent commanders about. For a siege that lasted most of a year, they likely built other siege equipment and used it as well. It's all speculative obviously, but context being what it is greyscale isn't likely without more people getting it.

[Modesty Lannister]

He didn't jump at your throat.

As to yours vs his? Are you really going to try to compare the likelihood of combat during a siege vs an adult getting greyscale in a castle or environment not known for it? We've got Cressen's POV and he was there during the siege as well as treated Shireen. If Donal Noye contracted what is largely a childhood/environmental disease, he likely would have mentioned it.

And we also know that Mace set up mangonels to attack SE during the WO5K. That he wouldn't have done something similar, especially with seemingly more competent commanders about. For a siege that lasted most of a year, they likely built other siege equipment and used it as well. It's all speculative obviously, but context being what it is greyscale isn't likely without more people getting it.

Since we have no confirmation of your theory in the text, it is as likely as mine. I have nothing against you and other posters advocating this. But, it has nothing to do with what I am advocating. So, why link it at all? And I didn't know you had skin changing abilities, but it's good to know that you do. :cheers:

[Mikkel]

Just because there's no concrete evidence for this or that theory, it doesn't make them all equally likely. It just means they're all possible, with varying degrees of plausibility. Not that it matters, like I've been saying from the beginning, for each of us the right scenario is the one we prefer in our personal head-canon, as I can't see it ever coming up - Noye is dead (and went out like a boss), and he himself never mentioned it, suggesting that as these things go it was a run-of-the-mill event.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Since we have no confirmation of your theory in the text, it is as likely as mine. I have nothing against you and other posters advocating this. But, it has nothing to do with what I am advocating. So, why link it at all? And I didn't know you had skin changing abilities, but it's good to know that you do. :cheers:

Skin changing? Quit huffing the mead.

Almost anything is possible. But possibility isn't likelihood or plausibility. A one-off infection of grey scale in a castle which is going to have forced closed quarters is very, very unlikely whereas combat, missiles, and siege weapons are, well, almost a given at certain during siege warfare. Unless Donal was hanging down in the shadow baby entrance area 24/7, him with greyscale makes no sense.

[The Holy Goat]

This paragraph seem to be what people is looking for. From Jon III, AGOT.

"Life," Jon repeated bitterly. The armorer could talk about life. He'd had one. He'd only taken the black after he'd lost an arm at the siege of Storm's End. Before that he'd smithed for Stannis Baratheon, the king's brother. He'd seen the Seven Kingdoms from one end to the other; he'd feasted and wenched and fought in a hundred battles. They said it was Donal Noye who'd forged King Robert's warhammer, the one that crushed the life from Rhaegar targaryen at the Trident. He'd done all the things that Jon would never do, amd then when he was old, well past thirty, he'd taken a glancing blow from an axe and the wound had festered until the whole arm had to come off. Only then, crippled, had Donal Noye come to the Wall, when his life was all but over.

Pretty clear what happened.

[Universal Sword Donor]

This paragraph seem to be what people is looking for. From Jon III, AGOT.

Pretty clear what happened.

Well that would settle the argument

[JonSnow4President]

This paragraph seem to be what people is looking for. From Jon III, AGOT.

Pretty clear what happened.

But did it fester with greyscale in a castle with no mentioned epidemic or seemingly viable source of greyscale infection? These are the questions we have to consider!

[The Holy Goat]

But did it fester with greyscale in a castle with no mentioned epidemic or seemingly viable source of greyscale infection? These are the questions we have to consider!

http://memecrunch.com/meme/3NXCD/skeptical-goat/image.png

[GallowsKnight]

This paragraph seem to be what people is looking for. From Jon III, AGOT.

Pretty clear what happened.

It suggests there was storm attempt or perhaps a sally for him to lose it in combat at storms end.

[Poodle Pup From Astapor]

One cold stormy night, Tormund drank some proper northern drinks and went looking for a woman. He found his woman's house and a hundred thousand other men who got there first and were camping outside her house. But that didn't stop him. He went inside and his woman fought him hard, like a proper wildling lady. Next morning he woke up on the beach holding her arm, yet she was nowhere to be seen. He still dreams of her often.

[Modesty Lannister]

Skin changing? Quit huffing the mead.

Almost anything is possible. But possibility isn't likelihood or plausibility. A one-off infection of grey scale in a castle which is going to have forced closed quarters is very, very unlikely whereas combat, missiles, and siege weapons are, well, almost a given at certain during siege warfare. Unless Donal was hanging down in the shadow baby entrance area 24/7, him with greyscale makes no sense.

Since when do the most likely things ever happen in these books? It is interesting, don't you think, that two men who the Dornish hold a serious grudge against both lose their arms. Jaime Lannister gets an arm chopped off by some sellsword company. Incidentally, Oberyn has a sellsword company, but we never learn its name. When it comes to the Brave Companions, look at what they achieved - they killed and fed to a bear Amory Lorch, the killer of Rhaenys Targaryen; they chopped Jaime Lannister's hand off, they instigated the sparrow movement by burning septs, killing and raping septons and septas and they infiltrated one of their own - Qyburn into the government. Not bad for a sellsword company that switches sides from the richest to the poorest bidder (Lannisters to Boltons, how likely is that?!?! Lol).

On the other hand, Donal Noye, as we know, forged Robert's war hammer - the weapon that brought the Targaryen dynasty down. And he also lost a hand (arm).

In this context, let me remind you that:

Elsewhere, Lord Orys Baratheon's assault up the Boneway proved a disaster. The canny Dornishmen rained rocks and arrows and spears from the heights, murdered men in the night, and in the end blocked the Boneway both before and behind. Lord Orys was captured by Lord Wyl, and many of his bannermen and knights besides. They remained captive for years before finally being ransomed for their weight in gold in 7 AC. And even then, each and every one of them returned lacking a sword hand, so that they might never take up arms against Dorne again.

TWOIAF - Dorne: Dorne Against the Dragons

So, it seems the chopping of one's arm off is an ancient Dornish punishment. It makes sense in both Jaime Lannister's and Donal Noye's cases. As to with what exactly Noye's wound festered, I offered greyscale. Why? Because it is not the first time house Baratheon would face death by water/curse. Steffon Baratheon and his wife sunk with their ship in front of their children and courtiers. Only Patchface remained. And we should remember Durran's fight with the Gods in this context. Then we have Donal losing his hand for no apparent reason and finally Shireen gets infected with greyscale, which is Garin's curse, the curse of the Rhoynar and, as we know, Martells are descendants of Nymeria, a Rhoynar queen.

So, as you can see, my supposition is not based on thin air. However, unlike other posters, I will not even attempt to compare probabilities of my theory against any other, because the probability simply cannot be measured in this case, as any average mathematician can confirm. And that very comparison for this precise reason was my objection from the beginning.

ETA: As for one off greyscale infection, whatever happened to baby Shireen? Partial amnesia when discussing the books can be handy to a point.

[Ser Joe the Unknighted]

accident

[marsyao]

It was Vargo Hoat who ordered to chop off Jamie's sword hand, Vargo Hoat is no Dornish