Slurktan Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Well first off, I disagree that it's not hard to learn how to shoot free throws. These guys are professionals who all almost certainly spend a large amount of time practising them, and they still haven't been able to get it right. It's obviously hard for them. But that's a separate issue. A problem for a lot of these guys is apparently their hands are too big so it's harder to control a normal free throw. However that doesn't stop them from doing free throws underhanded as that wouldn't be a problem. At that point apparently pride kicks in. And yes those 6-7 players (who can't shoot free throws over 50%) should be made to look like idiots by this "Hack-a-whatever" strategy because they have too much pride to do something they are paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 You've played basketball, right? I mean I have a terrible outside shot but even with playing like 3 times a month, I can make 50% of my free throws. If it was my career, I have no doubt I'd be substantially better. I mean it's the absolute easiest thing to work on in the game. And it's the only thing where you're completely in control of your performance without disruption. All you need is you, a ball and an empty gym. If these guys choose not to...that's on them. Also not sure if it's like a "Chuck Knoblauch-unable-to-throw-to-first-base" case of the yips when they get up there, but still, I have little sympathy. 99.5% of professional basketball players throughout history have figured out how to make 50% - what is special about these guys that they can't? Have you ever tried to shoot free throws with a tennis ball? It's significantly harder than using a basketball. Having really large hands in proportion to the ball makes free throws harder. So to say "I can do it, why can't they?" isn't really an accurate comparison, unless you've done it in the body of a man who is 6-11. Here's an interesting article about how NBA Hall of Famer Rick Barry advocates for shooting underhanded (granny style) on free throws. He has offered to teach current NBA players, but there is resistance to the idea. George Johnson was, for all intents and purposes, the DeAndre Jordan of his generation. An alley-oop catching, rim protecting 7-footer of awe-inspiring athleticism...Attempting his free throws overhand, Johnson shot 53 percent his first two years in the NBA...After only a "month or two" of working with Barry after practice, Johnson started shooting free throws underhand in games, and by the end of the season, was making 80 percent of his attempts. "It took George Johnson one season to go from a poor free throw shooter, to an 80 percent free throw shooter," Barry says. "It took me working with him roughly one full season. There is a better way to do it. It comes down to a pride issue." That point was perhaps best articulated by Shaquille O'Neal, another brutal foul shooter, who once said, "I will shoot 30 percent before I shoot underhand, I promise you that."It's a mentality that Barry cannot grasp."You're doing a disservice to yourself, a disservice to your team, if you aren't making these shots," he says. "I can't understand how anyone can live with themselves if they can't shoot 80 percent from the free throw line." The whole article is pretty interesting for me. It is hard to imagine just how much better DeAndre Jordan and the Clippers would be if he could consistently shoot 80% at the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 The whole article is pretty interesting for me. It is hard to imagine just how much better DeAndre Jordan and the Clippers would be if he could consistently shoot 80% at the line. Yeah its an issue that baffles me too. I understand not shooting underhanded playing streetball in the inner city or in high school, because you would never hear the end of it, but as a multi millionaire playing professional basketball you god damn better be the best you can be at the game. And once one poor shooting big man starts doing it and dramatically improves his % it will stop getting mocked. Just shows you that you can be 7 feet tall, have a 12 inch cock, millions of dollars, and still be as insecure as anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf of the Steppes Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I don't really buy the big hands theory. Here's five notable NBA players hand measurements and career free throw percentage: LeBron James- 9.25" FT%- .745 Bill Russell- 10.5" FT%- .561 Kawhi Leonard- 11.25" FT%- .802 Michael Jordan- 11.375" FT%- .835 Wilt Chamberlain- 11.5" FT%- .511 --Ok so 2 of them are notoriously bad free throw shooters BUT 3 are excellent free throw shooters. I do think that big hands can make it more difficult, but proper mechanics, repetition, and muscle memory make up for it. It's all about having a good teacher, willingness to learn, and putting the time into practice that makes a good free throw shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Have you ever tried to shoot free throws with a tennis ball? It's significantly harder than using a basketball. Having really large hands in proportion to the ball makes free throws harder. So to say "I can do it, why can't they?" isn't really an accurate comparison, unless you've done it in the body of a man who is 6-11. Here's an interesting article about how NBA Hall of Famer Rick Barry advocates for shooting underhanded (granny style) on free throws. He has offered to teach current NBA players, but there is resistance to the idea. The whole article is pretty interesting for me. It is hard to imagine just how much better DeAndre Jordan and the Clippers would be if he could consistently shoot 80% at the line.A better analogy is using a volleyball, and yes. But even so - Karl Malone is 6'10ish and built like rock yet he was able to raise his FT shooting from 48% & 59% to a career 74% (still way to low in my opinion). Larry Bird at 6'9' averaged 90% for his career. The size of the hands is an impact, just as it is for someone exceptionally short - but Bogues was able to shoot 83%. I agree with what one exec said -"It's part of the game," one of the executives said. "You need to make your free throws." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 --Ok so 2 of them are notoriously bad free throw shooters BUT 3 are excellent free throw shooters. I do think that big hands can make it more difficult, but proper mechanics, repetition, and muscle memory make up for it. It's all about having a good teacher, willingness to learn, and putting the time into practice that makes a good free throw shooter. If it makes it more difficult, then it seems like you do agree with me. Obviously big hands is not everything, some guys can shoot 80-90% in spite of this additional challenge. But my point was that it invalidates the argument that "I can shoot free throws, why can't he?" And do you really think that guys like DeAndre Jordan, Dwight Howard, Shaq, etc, aren't putting in the time in the gym? There is no doubt in my mind that Jordan attempts hundreds, if not thousands, of free throws a week to improve his FT%. But some guys just can't seem to put it all together, and I think the hands thing is part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf of the Steppes Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I do agree, I was just stating that the other things I mentioned play a larger part in making for a good/bad FT shooter than the big hands. I'm sure that those guys do practice FTs, but how much time and how well and willing are they being taught. Just from watching D. Jordan and Shaq's mechanics of shooting the FT, it doesn't look like they are willing to change their form--it's laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Being over 7' tall is part of it too. For the rest of us average Americans at 6'ish feet and even for the average NBA player of 6'6"; there's plenty of room to put arc on your free throw. But at 7' and up, from the free throw line its almost like you're shot putting the ball at the rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 If it makes it more difficult, then it seems like you do agree with me. Obviously big hands is not everything, some guys can shoot 80-90% in spite of this additional challenge. But my point was that it invalidates the argument that "I can shoot free throws, why can't he?" And do you really think that guys like DeAndre Jordan, Dwight Howard, Shaq, etc, aren't putting in the time in the gym? There is no doubt in my mind that Jordan attempts hundreds, if not thousands, of free throws a week to improve his FT%. But some guys just can't seem to put it all together, and I think the hands thing is part of it. I mean obviously there's no direct analogue between anything we do and the experiences of a professional athlete. But free throws comes closest just because it's one of the few moments in professional sports where it's just you. No opponent. And it's the easiest thing to practice or seek help on. Also there's limits to my sympathy for having bigger hands shooting free throws. Yes, no question it's harder. But every guy in the NBA has physical attributes that make him or worse at certain aspects of the game. The point is to correct glaring weaknesses. And free throws remains the easiest one to correct for the reasons noted above, regardless of what disadvantages you may have. Yao Ming was an 83% FT shooter. Shawn Bradley shot 71%. I'm not even saying be good at FTs. Just be adequate, shoot over 50%, so that "hack-a-whomever" isn't a viable strategy. If it takes shooting underhand as Slurk suggests, do that. But there isn't a player in the NBA I believe can't get there if he not only puts in the work, but the right kind of work. To me, FTs are the one skillset where you can't just shrug your shoulders and say "well, he has big hands so we can't expect this of him". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrum Aeternum Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Marc Gasol is another massive dude with big hands who can shoot FTs. His career 76% FT shooting is the principal reason Griz fans are constantly on him about being more aggressive to the basket - just get to the line, big guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlefingers In The Air Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 So John Wall will try and play tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 So John Wall will try and play tonight. Just, frankly, crazy. I wish him well, one wack on that hand and he can have serious, career impacting, issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabronius Maximus Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Well I admire his gusto, but I fear for his safety. I hope he knows what he's getting into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 So John Wall will try and play tonight. I can kind of understand the urgency, given Bradley Beal's untimely passing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Ok, I give...can someone explain the Beal inside joke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabronius Maximus Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Ok, I give...can someone explain the Beal inside joke?I think Jack Bauer proclaimed Beal was out for the playoffs mere moments after that ankle scare in game 1 (or 2?). Anyway, Beal came back in that same game. Mr Bauer's post history often has these types of proclamations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Ok, I give...can someone explain the Beal inside joke? He was injured earlier in the series. As is his want, Jack Bauer proclaimed him to be out of the playoffs. So we took it one step further and killed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabronius Maximus Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 He was injured earlier in the series. As is his want, Jack Bauer proclaimed him to be out of the playoffs. So we took it one step further and killed him.What did Beal ever do to you folks? Poor guy was just becoming a real solid player... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlefingers In The Air Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Rest in peace, Bradley Beal. We hardly knew ye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabronius Maximus Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Man this Wizards team is just smothering Atlanta. If they can hold on, and if the Caps can come through, it'll be a great night for DC sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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