Penny Dreadful II: Take Me To Church

[HexMachina]

What a great episode. I am loving this season so much and look forward to PD every single week.

--First, can I just *droooooooool* over the costuming in the ballroom scenes?

--Dorian and the rest of the gang TOGETHER for once. That's honestly all I needed to be happy.

--Victor and Lily are actually adorable. Damnit. I might be sorta shipping this.

--John Claire and Blind Girl (honestly, what is her name?!)---hm. I thought they'd be the true relationship for John Claire since Brona/Lily is obviously not it, but she seems rather unnerved by him now.

--Dorian Grey and Victor Frankenstein meet. That's why I love this show--these little meta moments when literary figures meet for the first time.

--Ethan's conversation with the Detective was very good. The Detective has figured out a lot (except what Ethan is, of course) and I like the cat/mouse feel of these two.

--"I do so enjoy watching your scales catch the light as you coil...." Yeah, I love Lyle.

--Whooooooooooa Dorian and Lily meet. Semi-Recognition! But honestly Lily doesn't look THAT different, right?

--"I don't drink spirits." "I won't hold that against you." I am using that from now on...

--Angelique--Victor--Vanessa--Lily--Dorian conversation is so full of awkward and it was WONDERFUL. I couldn't stop grinning.

--Kali and Vanessa meet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "He speaks so highly of you.' "He speaks of you rarely" OMG THIS SCENE IS PERFECT

--HOLY SHIT THE BLOODY RAIN SCENE

--THE ENDING!!!!!!

Waxworks girl is called Lavinia. She really is a good actress, imo

ETA: Was reading an article on io9 and there is a screen cap of Angelique dancing with Lyle. WHY DIDNT WE GET THIS SCENE?! :p

[Drogon's Personal Trainer]

I loved this episode. THE BLOOD SCENE. I am liking Hecate as a character more and more - she PROPER looked like Kali's daughter in that ep.

Poor Malcolm <3

And Lyle getting catty with Hecate was excellent.

Excited for next week!!!

I've always liked Hecate, to be honest. The old ham in me didn't even mind her hissing ;)

This was an episode where pieces were set into place, I felt, but it doesn't really matter because everything is so gorgeous and watchable. I just hope Sembene isn't going to come to any harm now Ethan has his wolf on. I'm intrigued as to where we're going with the voodoo dolls. Interesting that Hecate said that Vanessa was sacrosanct - I think V is far more powerful than she herself knows, and Kali wants her for her own nefarious purposes - perhaps to remain ever youthful, or something. There were clear hints last night that Kali is not as young as she seems, but we did more or less know that I think, if the cut wife had been around since Cromwell's time.

Thank God Dorian has reconnected with the characters at last, but I fear for Brona/Lily. Sooner or later she is going to get one memory jog too many, and I have no clue how she will react to everything. The plot contrived to keep her and Ethan apart last night, so clearly there will be a dramatic recognition when they do finally meet.

Gorgeous production values again last night, and as usual, the acting is a class above.

[Theda Baratheon]

Oh god no don't bring Ethan and Vanessa together only for him to see brona/lily and for them to get back together nooooooo :(

Theres been loads of hints Kali is pretty old - as you mentioned the Cut wife episode made that v clear, her little facts about history as if she was there and her singing that old english folk song unquiet grave- collected in the 1800s but thought to date back to the 15th century - and methinks the way she was singing it indicates she may have been around to hear some older versions than the one collected in 1868 according to wikipedia but maybe im just clutching at straws lol

anyone else think kali is genuinely attracted to malcolm tho??? I mean i know she has no real sentimental feelings towards him and made his own creepy fetish doll but i like to think after her pathetic husband we've seen previously i like to think she at least admires him a tiny bit lol

[Corvinus85]

Kali maintains her youthful look by bathing in the blood of young (probably virgin) women, inspired by the accounts of Countess Elizabeth Báthory. In fact, maybe she is Báthory, who did live at the end of 16th and beginning of the 17th century.

[Drogon's Personal Trainer]

Kali maintains her youthful look by bathing in the blood of young (probably virgin) women, inspired by the accounts of Countess Elizabeth Báthory. In fact, maybe she is Báthory, who did live at the end of 16th and beginning of the 17th century.

Yes, I was forgetting that. I do remember when we saw her bathing in the blood, I wondered if she may have been based on Bathory.

@Theda - I think she may be sexually attracted to Malcolm, yes. But as with everything else Kali does, he's a means to an end. I wonder if Sir Malc will get out of the season alive.

[Theda Baratheon]

@Theda - I think she may be sexually attracted to Malcolm, yes. But as with everything else Kali does, he's a means to an end. I wonder if Sir Malc will get out of the season alive.

lmao oh i definitely agree and know this i don't know why but i just found it funny to think she genuinely has the hots for malcolm

i mean hes a v handsome bloke hes just old enough to be my grandfather haha

[HexMachina]

I find it slightly amusing that Vanessa, Sir Malcom and Madame Kali have all been in Bond movies. (I didn't recognise McCroy until I caught the credits).

As to whether she is genuinely attracted to Sir Malcom, yes definitely imo. There almost seems to be a twinge of regret in her face/voice when she says "you're in for a challenging day". I don't think it will stop her going through with anything, but it adds an extra layer to her character all the same.

[Theda Baratheon]

I find it slightly amusing that Vanessa, Sir Malcom and Madame Kali have all been in Bond movies. (I didn't recognise McCroy until I caught the credits).

As to whether she is genuinely attracted to Sir Malcom, yes definitely imo. There almost seems to be a twinge of regret in her face/voice when she says "you're in for a challenging day". I don't think it will stop her going through with anything, but it adds an extra layer to her character all the same.

Yeah that's what I feel...just gives her a bit more depth to know she also has feelings of sadness and regret, however weak and fleeting they may be.

[Jack Bauer 24]

http://observer.com/2015/06/penny-dreadful-and-the-strides-made-by-modern-horror-television/

[BearQueen87]

Waxworks girl is called Lavinia. She really is a good actress, imo

Ahhh. Thanks!

I find it slightly amusing that Vanessa, Sir Malcom and Madame Kali have all been in Bond movies. (I didn't recognise McCroy until I caught the credits).

As to whether she is genuinely attracted to Sir Malcom, yes definitely imo. There almost seems to be a twinge of regret in her face/voice when she says "you're in for a challenging day". I don't think it will stop her going through with anything, but it adds an extra layer to her character all the same.

I thought the same. It makes me wonder how she became Madame Kali in the first place. There's some hidden depth there that I'm sure the show will explore before the season is out.

Will Kali survive? I tend to think no, and if she does, her role as the Big Bad will be reduced to make way for whatever comes next (is it too early for Satan to be the Big Bad in S3?)

[The Mother of The Others]

The sex episode was the most terrifying thing they've done yet. Mr. Roper from 3's Company was scary when he stopped the gang from having sex but this show is scarier because it lets them have the sex. I still don't know who Caliban is but will watch intently for clues. Also try hissing during your next argument. Its very liberating.

[Theda Baratheon]

Ahhh. Thanks!

I thought the same. It makes me wonder how she became Madame Kali in the first place. There's some hidden depth there that I'm sure the show will explore before the season is out.

Will Kali survive? I tend to think no, and if she does, her role as the Big Bad will be reduced to make way for whatever comes next (is it too early for Satan to be the Big Bad in S3?)

I think maybe season 3's Big Bad might be Ethan's Dad???? Idk though, I saw that written somewhere else and I was like ''ahhhh!!! interesting...''

Let's just hope it gets freakin renewed!!!! It will, right???????? I haven't heard anything yet!!!

[HexMachina]

Ahhh. Thanks!

I thought the same. It makes me wonder how she became Madame Kali in the first place. There's some hidden depth there that I'm sure the show will explore before the season is out.

Will Kali survive? I tend to think no, and if she does, her role as the Big Bad will be reduced to make way for whatever comes next (is it too early for Satan to be the Big Bad in S3?)

I'm not sure how reliable it was, but I read on...I think it was spoilers TV that:

Episode 2 09 will have Vanessa go confront Kali, seemingly to rescue Sir Malcom. Again, not sure how reliable it was

[BearQueen87]

I think maybe season 3's Big Bad might be Ethan's Dad???? Idk though, I saw that written somewhere else and I was like ''ahhhh!!! interesting...''

Let's just hope it gets freakin renewed!!!! It will, right???????? I haven't heard anything yet!!!

i have no doubt. Cable ratings are horses of a different color and while it might be down from S1, it's still doing strong for Showtime with consistent demos that don't fluctuate too much, which is what Showtime cares about. I can't see it not getting renewed.

[Theda Baratheon]

i have no doubt. Cable ratings are horses of a different color and while it might be down from S1, it's still doing strong for Showtime with consistent demos that don't fluctuate too much, which is what Showtime cares about. I can't see it not getting renewed.

I feel a bit better now. :) If this got canceled I would legit be SO upset.

[HexMachina]

I'm surprised there was a kind of big drop between this episode and last. Would have thought people wanted to see the Wolf out

[Maester Llama]

I've not watched series 2 yet even though I very much want to and have been cheering at reports of its greatness, because I'd like to see the show get renewed before I go ahead in case there's a cliff-hanger or something. So the ratings are of interest to me. And, um, yeah, I know, co-production etc, very important thing to keep in mind. But:

I was curious as to where PD stood amongst Showtime's dramas, so I did a bit of very quick rough wiki research involving the "list of programs broadcast by Showtime" page -- looking only at the dramas -- and the numbers they've been doing in their most recent seasons. And from Penny Dreadful's perspective it's not pretty. I think PD might actually be Showtime's lowest-rated drama at this point. It's not even doing the numbers The Affair was managing by the end of its first season -- The Affair started lower than PD by quite a bit, but it rose throughout the season -- and The Affair is a show about two people having an extramarital relationship, not a complex costume drama with set and CGI needs. Masters of Sex does better numbers. Ray Donovan does notably better numbers. I really want Penny Dreadful to come back and the arguments for why Showtime would choose to continue make a ton of sense to me, but I hope that co-production deal and those international broadcast deals [my understanding is that these can indeed easily justify a show's existence when raw ratings are not doing so and have in a number of cases in the past] Showtime is getting are really, really sweet, because these US broadcast numbers are bleak. They're bleak in general, and, maybe more importantly, they're bleak by the current standards of the network doing the broadcasting -- with the one sunny spot that the show is building on the apparently terrible and poorly-rated new comedy that comes on before it.

It looks like Showtime renewed the show around this point in its run last year, so hopefully we should know soon. More please!

[Jack Bauer 24]

PD is there lowest rated original show.

[BearQueen87]

PD is there lowest rated original show.

Maybe but Showtime has to determine whether or not the lowest rated show would perform better than all new original. PD has a strong fan base and the numbers might be low for Showtime but they aren't wildly off each week either. S2 of PD is also meeting with a lot of acclaim and praise for story, effects and of course acting. If the subscribers to ST are continuing to watch, I don't know why it wouldn't get renewed unless ST really and truly thought that it had a brand new original that could supplant it AND go further.

ETA: and yea, numbers (broadcast and cable) are down across the board. S3 might be a gamble for ST, but I'm betting they'll consider it a worthwhile one instead of shelling out tons of money for an all new series to replace.

[Maester Llama]

Indeed. Hopefully all their strange arcane Hollywood calculus comes out positive for PD, but, even with the good deals the show has internationally that have been held up as shields in the discussions about the possible renewal, I bet that calculus is indeed being done, in a way that it wouldn't be in the case of a show that had better domestic ratings. You're definitely right in that it has engaged, super enthusiastic fans, it's been getting positive notices for lots of stuff this year, and I bet Showtime likes all those things. But it's being watched live by less than 700-thousand people a week in the States, and that's gotta be ugly. Hopefully it does well online -- I don't think we have any way at all of knowing about that. Showtime's got some kind of standalone online subscription service coming out this summer. If PD does well online and they think they can use more PD to push subscriptions to this new thing, that's probably good news.

In terms of big genre dramas that could attract a fanbase Showtime does have the revival of Twin Peaks waiting in the wings -- a very different show, but it's possible Showtime might categorize it as attracting broadly the same kind of fan; I dunno how these people think. I doubt that'll factor, but it is a thing.

I do agree that, just as an uneducated observer, it seems likely they'll take the gamble and sign up again, but I'm starting to get the nasty feeling that it's much less of a sure thing than we've been thinking.