HexMachina Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I agree that Clare is a victim, but he's also shown himself to be fairly possessive and jealous--in this case of Victor and how Lily is clearly attached to him. (Though, as an interesting question, is Clare jealous that Lily is closer to Victor than she is to him...or is he jealous that Victor is closer to Lily than Victor is to Clare? The relationship between Victor and John Clare isn't as antagonistic as they want to make it out to be, I believe. Victor is still his creator and I think there is a measure of jealousy that Victor dotes on Lily the way he never doted on his first creature, Caliban/John Clare)Absolutely, and this plays into Caliban killing Proteous(?) in the first season.Spockydog, I agree John Clare is a victim, but he is unable to recognise that he wants to subject Lily to more or less the same victimisation. He constantly bemoans his life yet he acts as though his misfortune entitles him to whatever he asks his creator for, regardless of how awful those things are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Spockydog, I agree John Clare is a victim, but he is unable to recognise that he wants to subject Lily to more or less the same victimisation. He constantly bemoans his life yet he acts as though his misfortune entitles him to whatever he asks his creator for, regardless of how awful those things are. Totally agree that what Victor and Clare have done is pretty awful. But I think the way things are going, the writers will soon be asking us to consider which of them is really the monster. Despite his demands, I find Clare hugely sympathetic. Victor, not so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Totally agree that what Victor and Clare have done is pretty awful. But I think the way things are going, the writers will soon be asking us to consider which of them is really the monster. Despite his demands, I find Clare hugely sympathetic. Victor, not so much... I also find Clare to be very sympathetic--except when it comes to Lily. His interactions with Vanessa, for instance, have been dynamite and full of heart and that melancholy that makes you feel for him. When it comes to Lily, however, his reaction a week or so ago that he was impatient with having to wait for--basically--his sex toy really set my teeth on edge. And so now this idea that he's going to be swooping in and saving Lily from Victor puts my teeth on edge further because I worry that his "rescue" of her will result in him making demands on her person. I also think it's worth bringing up that at some point, I suspect Lily will remember Brona who was less delicate wallflower than Lily is and is perfectly capable of rescuing herself should she desire to be parted from Victor. I agree that the show is asking to question who is the real monster, but I think it wants us to ask that question about everyone, not just Victor and Clare. And the answer is likely that we're all monsters, capable of doing good and evil, capable of being selfish and selfless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I also find Clare to be very sympathetic--except when it comes to Lily. His interactions with Vanessa, for instance, have been dynamite and full of heart and that melancholy that makes you feel for him. When it comes to Lily, however, his reaction a week or so ago that he was impatient with having to wait for--basically--his sex toy really set my teeth on edge. And so now this idea that he's going to be swooping in and saving Lily from Victor puts my teeth on edge further because I worry that his "rescue" of her will result in him making demands on her person. I also think it's worth bringing up that at some point, I suspect Lily will remember Brona who was less delicate wallflower than Lily is and is perfectly capable of rescuing herself should she desire to be parted from Victor. I agree that the show is asking to question who is the real monster, but I think it wants us to ask that question about everyone, not just Victor and Clare. And the answer is likely that we're all monsters, capable of doing good and evil, capable of being selfish and selfless. I'm not sure Clare sees Lily as a sex toy. I think he just wants a companion, someone to share the awful existence inflicted upon him by Victor. If anyone views Lily as a sex-toy, it's the creepy (probably necrophiliac) Dr Frankenstein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arataniello Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 After that godawful season finale of GoT, this week episode's is more welcome than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbound Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Gads I hope this gets picked up for another season, I fucking love this show more and more each week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojosh Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 You know I love Penny Dreadful and what its doing but they sure do know how to take a nice little filler episode like this and turn it into an angsty mess. Well Ethan and Vanessa got their kiss but not much else because Vanessa shut that down fast. Not sure why Ethan still hasn't told Vanessa about his condition. Probably gonna be a source of more angst and keeping them apart.Sembele had a great scene to start off the episode though give him more scenes. Lily is not to different from John Clare I see, those undead killing impulses just needed a spark. Oh and she cheated on Victor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I'm finding Lyle's unraveling of the verbis diablo text more and more interesting as the season progresses. Another slight tease of Sembene's backstory. Sigh again. I really enjoy Ethan as Vanessa's protector. Loved how he tried to save her soul by killing the asshole landowner. But she completely has Ethan wrapped around her finger. Dance puppet! Maybe I missed something but wasn't that the book the cut wife warned her about opening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer 24 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 You know I love Penny Dreadful and what its doing but they sure do know how to take a nice little filler episode like this and turn it into an angsty mess. Well Ethan and Vanessa got their kiss but not much else because Vanessa shut that down fast. Not sure why Ethan still hasn't told Vanessa about his condition. Probably gonna be a source of more angst and keeping them apart.Sembele had a great scene to start off the episode though give him more scenes. Lily is not to different from John Clare I see, those undead killing impulses just needed a spark. Oh and she cheated on VictorYeah didn't care for this one at all. Weakest episode of the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ashes Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Maybe I missed something but wasn't that the book the cut wife warned her about opening?It was along the lines of open only under the direst of circumstances lest ye find yerself becoming the Devil's mouthpiece. And as far as I'm concerned, the circumstances were not dire enough. If the writers want Vanessa to further go into the dark side, this was a forced and unconvincing way to do it. Vanessa knew the warning, she knows the Devil and her minions are pursuing her, yet she chose this time to commit murder. Uh-huh.I guess Joan Clayton was not as wise as she seemed in handing Vanessa a loaded gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Yeah, I figured Vanessa would be backed into a corner with her world about to be destroyed(worse than her present ordeals, of course)before she would turn to the book and not just a revenge plot against that prick. One of the slower shows of the year but still enjoyable. Sembene better have a full, flashback episode one day! They keep teasing us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ashes Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Sembene better have a full, flashback episode one day! They keep teasing us.That reminds me: when Sembene told Ethan one becomes what one eats, does that mean that Ethan is a man-wolf-sheep now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nox Irradiata Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I was expecting a big confrontation out on the moors with Team Kali this episode but I guess they're saving it for the finale. I agree with previous posters that this was a fairly weak episode. :dunno: The Lily sub-plot surprised me and I'm glad she'll have something to do in the story aside from being a helpless sex-toy for Victor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ashes Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 The Lily sub-plot surprised me and I'm glad she'll have something to do in the story aside from being a helpless sex-toy for Victor.Since it was Lily who seduced Victor, I'd say she's not exactly a helpless sex-toy. Also, that's twice now that Victor gave way (with the dress and her wanting to go out) when he noticed Lily's discomfort. His jealousy at Dean's ball wasn't extreme and more like the reaction of someone with insecurities who's not used to being in relationships.Maybe he has necrophiliac tendencies but I think his attraction to Lily took him aback. If he's as creepy as some people think he is, he'd gave made his own undead sex-toy a long time ago without "John Claire" pressuring him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstorebog Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Vanessa has got a taste of that Glyph Book now. She's gonna come back for more, mark my words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Oh my gosh, I loved this episode. Yes, it was for sure slower and more "fillery" than the past few weeks and Lily/Dorian stuff was a bit "eh", but I thought it had some delightful charm. Or I am on a Vanessa x Ethan high. Who knows! --Ethan chopping down the tree that Vanessa hates. Oh gosh. The shipping feels. --The dancing lessons --The little slices of life watching Ethan and Vanessa in domestic bliss, away from all the problems they face back in London. --The Moors are simply gorgeous and the costuming department continues to outdo themselves by making the characters feel as rustic and "one with the earth" as their surroundings. --The lightening storm over the Moor was just breathtaking...well, until the fire. --"You'll make someone a good wife someday." I actually yelled, "YES YOU ETHAN. SHE'LL MAKE YOU A GOOD WIFE." --THAT KISS WAS HOT AND WONDERFUL AND AHHHHHHHHHHH and Vanessa's reaction was heartbreaking. "We are dangerous" --Vanessa hated dolls as a child. Is that significant given what Kali is doing? --The hound, the demon and the scorpion. Endlessly circling one another. I got chills. --"We're not like each other. We have claws for a reason." --I love that Vanessa and Ethan don't just fall into each others arms. He calls her on her murdering of the Rich Man, instead of trying to comfort her and tell her it's okay. "Welcome to the Night, Vanessa." Chills, again. --The Lily/Victor/Dorian drama. Well, it's obvious that Lily still has some of Brona inside her but with a far darker streak. I think it's pretty clear now that Lily isn't just some "helpless sex toy" and I agree that Victor's reaction at the ball stems quite a bit from his own insecurities in face of everything Dorian has that he does not and Lily's reaction to it (said so a page back as well). Makes me wonder why Lily didn't kill Victor during their sexual exploits, though. It's intriguing to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Oh my gosh, I loved this episode. Yes, it was for sure slower and more "fillery" than the past few weeks and Lily/Dorian stuff was a bit "eh", but I thought it had some delightful charm. Or I am on a Vanessa x Ethan high. Who knows! --Ethan chopping down the tree that Vanessa hates. Oh gosh. The shipping feels. --The dancing lessons --The little slices of life watching Ethan and Vanessa in domestic bliss, away from all the problems they face back in London. --The Moors are simply gorgeous and the costuming department continues to outdo themselves by making the characters feel as rustic and "one with the earth" as their surroundings. --The lightening storm over the Moor was just breathtaking...well, until the fire. --"You'll make someone a good wife someday." I actually yelled, "YES YOU ETHAN. SHE'LL MAKE YOU A GOOD WIFE." --THAT KISS WAS HOT AND WONDERFUL AND AHHHHHHHHHHH and Vanessa's reaction was heartbreaking. "We are dangerous" --Vanessa hated dolls as a child. Is that significant given what Kali is doing? --The hound, the demon and the scorpion. Endlessly circling one another. I got chills. --"We're not like each other. We have claws for a reason." --I love that Vanessa and Ethan don't just fall into each others arms. He calls her on her murdering of the Rich Man, instead of trying to comfort her and tell her it's okay. "Welcome to the Night, Vanessa." Chills, again. --The Lily/Victor/Dorian drama. Well, it's obvious that Lily still has some of Brona inside her but with a far darker streak. I think it's pretty clear now that Lily isn't just some "helpless sex toy" and I agree that Victor's reaction at the ball stems quite a bit from his own insecurities in face of everything Dorian has that he does not and Lily's reaction to it (said so a page back as well). Makes me wonder why Lily didn't kill Victor during their sexual exploits, though. It's intriguing to say the least.Iirc it was "We're not like others. We have claws for a reason." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Iirc it was "We're not like others. We have claws for a reason." No you're right. It was. I type too fast. :bawl: *hides in corner of shame* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 For Helena and Theda specifically but also for everyone who just lost their minds, I give you...THIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Aaaand one more thing: TVLine is predicting that S3 of PD is a "safe bet" I trust TVLine quite a bit when it comes to renewal stuff. LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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