Does anyone believe Jojenpaste?

[Lord Freypie]

Yes, of course.

- Powerful magic is linked with blood in Asoiaf (including weirwood/children magic since we learned sacrifices were made to them).

- Cannibalism looks like a recurring theme in ADWD.

I don't see more good arguements to discard Jojen paste than the Frey pies theory most people agree to be true.

Just "I hate it because it's horrible so it couldn't happen", which hardly qualify as convincing about anything in Asoiaf.

[Hoppy Hour]

Not impossible, but lacking truth. I think the theory only grew strong when we saw Jojen die on TV.

[Wouter]

So, comparing Bran to Drogo doesn't fit. For Bran to gain great power, it feels like he has to make a great sacrifice. For Drogo, he just is great power, for someone else to gain, and it's that someone else who has to make a great sacrifice.

Bran did lose the use of his legs already (which happened to open his "third eye", so a sacrifice of sorts) and he may lose more before the whole process of becoming a supergreenseer is over.

Not impossible, but lacking truth. I think the theory only grew strong when we saw Jojen die on TV.

It was heavily debated on this forum right after ADWD came out, well before the show.

What happened to Jojen on the show has variously been taken as evidence against (see, he dies in a totally different manner!) and for (see, they killed him in another way because they don't want to go that dark/don't want to be too "magicky") the theory. I don't think many people changed their minds because of the show, the indications are entirely book-centered.

[three-eyed monkey]

He goes on to describe the taste, "It had a bitter taste, though not as bitter as acorn paste". Bran knows the taste of blood. He has warged and hunted with Summer. He did not compare the taste to blood. p457hb

Bran also knows what armour is but in Summer he thinks of it as hardskin, so there is a difference in perception between Bran and warged Summer.

Not impossible, but lacking truth. I think the theory only grew strong when we saw Jojen die on TV.

It might not be true, but the theory has been going strong since ADwD came out. That laughable scene in the show might have won some people over, I don't know. It really only hints that Jojen will die, but I think most readers expected that anyway, Jojenpaste or not.

I missed it on my first read but since stumbling across the theory, I gotta say I think it fits perfectly. I was expecting the "today is the day I die" line, but then again maybe that is a bit cheesy for GRRM.

[Hoppy Hour]

Sorry, I was in a rush and meant to write "proof", not truth.

[Clegane'sPup]

Bran also knows what armour is but in Summer he thinks of it as hardskin, so there is a difference in perception between Bran and warged Summer.

He goes on to describe the taste, "It had a bitter taste, though not as bitter as acorn paste". Bran knows the taste of blood. He has warged and hunted with Summer. He did not compare the taste to blood. p457hb

Perception is not taste. When I have some free time I'll look for a quote where Bran describes the taste of his own blood and a description of Bran tasting blood while warging Summer and get back to you. On second thought, no I don't think I will because I don't have to prove or disprove it.

If you want to believe the jojen paste theory it's okay with me. I don't place any stock in it. The red in the paste Bran eats is weirwood sap.

[DeathYon]

It's probably one of the more believable theories out there.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Here's the thing. I re-read all Brans chapters recently and came to the conclusion that Jojen Paste cannot be real. The reason is that 3 different times during their journey north Jojen specifically points out in dangerous situations, "Today is not the day I die".

Which clearly means that he has foreseen the day he dies, and it also means that the George wants us to take note, that Jojen's death will be meaningful and important. He would never repeat something THREE times if it was unimportant. Therefore there is no way that this very meaningful death would just happen off-screen with no witnesses and no importance. I am 100% certain we will see Jojen die, yes it will most likely come very soon in WoW, but it will happen on-screen.

Even if he gets cut up and made into paste eventually, it has not happened yet.

[Marcus Agrippa]

Not really- its a good thought exercise however.

[Mitbert Strangejoy]

Here's the thing. I re-read all Brans chapters recently and came to the conclusion that Jojen Paste cannot be real. The reason is that 3 different times during their journey north Jojen specifically points out in dangerous situations, "Today is not the day I die".

Which clearly means that he has foreseen the day he dies, and it also means that the George wants us to take note, that Jojen's death will be meaningful and important. He would never repeat something THREE times if it was unimportant. Therefore there is no way that this very meaningful death would just happen off-screen with no witnesses and no importance. I am 100% certain we will see Jojen die, yes it will most likely come very soon in WoW, but it will happen on-screen.

Even if he gets cut up and made into paste eventually, it has not happened yet.

Bran could always view the scene through the flashback Weirnet, I suppose. Being consumed by Bran definitely counts as "important."

[Amoracchius]

In a novel full of veiled (and not so veiled) references to cannibalism, a character who has frequently claimed to have foreseen his own death becomes despondent and unresponsive. Then he disappears. Then another character eats something strange and similar to how others have described blood. Then the first character's sister is seen crying.

Again, obviously the Jojenpaste theory is unconfirmed (hence "theory"), but it's certainly not crackpot.

[Amoracchius]

Double post. Sorry.

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

Jojen is still alive at the end of the last Bran chapter, but he is going to be eaten by a starving Ghost while he is warged by Jon. That is why he had no fear of the gray and black direwolf when Meera was extremely concerned for his safety when he first met them - she knew he was to die to a direwolf, but Jojen knew it was a white one and that he was perfectly safe.

[Mitbert Strangejoy]

Jojen is still alive at the end of the last Bran chapter, but he is going to be eaten by a starving Ghost while he is warged by Jon. That is why he had no fear of the gray and black direwolf when Meera was extremely concerned for his safety when he first met them - she knew he was to die to a direwolf, but Jojen knew it was a white one and that he was perfectly safe.

Not bad. I'll be happy if any of our protagonists eat Jojen. Winter is coming, people; let's not waste perfectly good meat.

[Criston of House Shapper]

I thought his death would be a funny one because he always said: "This is not the day I die."

This should lead to some scene, where he says: "This is the day I die." and then he dies funny.

But Jojenpaste is ok, too, if it's true. But he cannot survive the series, that would just be disapointing.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Bran could always view the scene through the flashback Weirnet, I suppose. Being consumed by Bran definitely counts as "important."

Not for Jojen, if it happens off-screen and we never read about it. I disagree.

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

Not bad. I'll be happy if any of our protagonists eat Jojen. Winter is coming, people; let's not waste perfectly good meat.

It's foreshadowed pretty well. The book even makes mention of a sinkhole that leads into their cave system nearby, a perfect way for a direwolf to accidentally end up inside the caves. He'll be starving and losing his humanity and trapped inside a cave when he comes across a depressed boy who doesn't seem surprised at all to see him, and maybe even offers himself to him because he's probably going to be able to tell the beast is being warged by Jon.

[idio]

Is it ever stated that ingesting blood in any way helps magic? I have no problem believing that Jojen is dead, but I don't recall anything that said that anyone had to actually drink/eat the deceased to gain any extra abilities.

It just seems superfluous in a realm where the act of sacrifice itself is powerful enough to wake Dragons from Stone, without anyone actually eating someone else.

I think GRRM is intentionally bringing up the idea of blood as a device to give the scene an eerie, uncomfortable supernatural feeling. And I think he greatly succeeded.

IMHO, I think it would be a little dumb if Bran was actually eating Jojen. But I could accept it if true, I just don't think it is.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

I don't believe it, but a lot of people truly do.

[three-eyed monkey]

He goes on to describe the taste, "It had a bitter taste, though not as bitter as acorn paste". Bran knows the taste of blood. He has warged and hunted with Summer. He did not compare the taste to blood. p457hb

Perception is not taste. When I have some free time I'll look for a quote where Bran describes the taste of his own blood and a description of Bran tasting blood while warging Summer and get back to you. On second thought, no I don't think I will because I don't have to prove or disprove it.

If you want to believe the jojen paste theory it's okay with me. I don't place any stock in it. The red in the paste Bran eats is weirwood sap.

Taste is a matter of perception actually. What tastes good to a wolf might not necessarily taste good to a person. But you're right, you don't have to prove or disprove anything.