Does anyone believe Jojenpaste?

[Lost Melnibonean]

No one thus far has been required to eat/drink king's blood. King's blood can be used without killing the person with the blood too. Maybe Jojen just donated a pint for the cause. Hey, maybe Jojen has king's blood. He could be descended from House Mudd, the ancient river kings.

Or maybe the weirwood paste tastes like blood because of all the sacrifices/executions done in weirwood groves over the centuries.

"Hey Pa!"

"Oh hells woman, what is it now?"

"Shut yer backtalk and tell Wat to fetch me my bronze sickle. The tree's a little lite on entrails. Them ol' gods is hungry."

[Clegane'sPup]

"Hey Pa!"

"Oh hells woman, what is it now?"

"Shut yer backtalk and tell Wat to fetch me my bronze sickle. The tree's a little lite on entrails. Them ol' gods is hungry."

Damn, are you my neighbor that sits on the porch shootin' off dem guns?

Seriously though, do you believe the Jojen paste :bs:

[Grissom]

No one thus far has been required to eat/drink king's blood. King's blood can be used without killing the person with the blood too. Maybe Jojen just donated a pint for the cause. Hey, maybe Jojen has king's blood. He could be descended from House Mudd, the ancient river kings.

Or maybe the weirwood paste tastes like blood because of all the sacrifices/executions done in weirwood groves over the centuries.

The paste doesn't taste like blood, it only looks like it, and that's because weirwood sap looks like blood.

[Grissom]

Jojen paste has little evidence for it, it's quite far fetched. Just because the paste looks like blood (weirwood sap looks like blood) and Jojen is depressed doesn't mean they made a Jojen milkshake.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Damn, are you my neighbor that sits on the porch shootin' off dem guns?

Seriously though, do you believe the Jojen paste :bs:

Absolutely. And what I do on my porch is my own God-given right you damn tree hugger.

[Lost Melnibonean]

The paste doesn't taste like blood, it only looks like it, and that's because weirwood sap looks like blood.

When Jon and Qhorin were running from Rattleshirt they mixed horse blood in their oates and Jon gaged on it. Arya thought of the taste of blood--completely out of context--when she entered the weirwood cave of the BWB. And Jon gaged when Aemon gave him milk of the poppy that mingled with blood in his mouth from biting his lip.

He ate. It had a bitter taste, though not so bitter as acorn paste. The first spoonful was the hardest to get down. He almost retched it right back up.

[BitsOfBrains]

Jojen paste has little evidence for it, it's quite far fetched. Just because the paste looks like blood (weirwood sap looks like blood) and Jojen is depressed doesn't mean they made a Jojen milkshake.

Maybe it doesn't have a ton of evidence (although some suggestions for sure) but you can't deny that the whole idea is pretty GURMy, can you?

[Clegane'sPup]

Absolutely. And what I do on my porch is my own God-given right you damn tree hugger.

LMAO, thank you.

[Hol Horse]

Sounds like malarkey.

Thoros brings people back from the dead and he doesn't sacrifice anyone to do it.

[Lost Melnibonean]

LMAO, thank you.

You're welcome. Now get.

[chrisdaw]

Follow the themes, follow the characters arcs.

A benevolent young boy falls into great power. A primary theme of this series is that power comes at a cost. His master is perhaps the most ruthless man in Westeros, who sacrificed honour and reputation to keep a peaceful team through fear. Who broke guest rights and murdered kin beneath a peace banner to win his war, knowing it may cost him his life and freedom.

That he would sacrifice a boy to save the realm is completely consistent. That Bran must face the burden of ultimate sacrifice to save Westeros is his primary arc. If he will make the sacrifice or not is the question, the answer unknown but the question must be asked. Jojenpaste is the appetiser.

[Valyrian Fork]

Of course I believe it.

Anyone who doesn't believe it, but who does believe in Frey Pies and/or (but especially) the fact that Coldhands served them human flesh and not pork, is basically being willfully blind and adhering to a double standard.

It's funny to see the fairly well-supported theories, in a literary sense, that people just love to shit on because they can't really work their heads around how that kind of analysis works. R+L=J has a lot of "factual" evidence apart from all the literary stuff. It's interesting to see how die-hard people get about that and about other, far-less-literary stuff like Hound=Gravedigger, even when the more overt "evidence" isn't particularly conclusive, just different in kind.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Of course I believe it.

Anyone who doesn't believe it, but who does believe in Frey Pies and/or (but especially) the fact that Coldhands served them human flesh and not pork, is basically being willfully blind and adhering to a double standard.

It's funny to see the fairly well-supported theories, in a literary sense, that people just love to shit on because they can't really work their heads around how that kind of analysis works. R+L=J has a lot of "factual" evidence apart from all the literary stuff. It's interesting to see how die-hard people get about that and about other, far-less-literary stuff like Hound=Gravedigger, even when the more overt "evidence" isn't particularly conclusive, just different in kind.

I don't agree with your examples, I guess, but you're right. A lot of people want "hard proof" of stuff, CSI-style, and forget this is a book. But that applies even more to those who deny Hound = Gravedigger.

[Valyrian Fork]

Yeah, it's not the best example, but I think there are a lot of people who are willing to believe it because of "circumstancial" evidence, like the Elder Brother's speech, the horse, the GD's height, the fact that he is totally forthright about having encountered the Hound. The "he's dead now / ... but has a new life as a gravedigger!!!" metaphor is almost painfully obvious, as is the parallel with the equally obvious in the same way Robert Strong = Mountain. It's not super hard evidence, but it's more based on facts (the height of the mountain, etc), and what literary stuff is going on is blindingly obvious ("if he appears again, the whole realm will know!!"), directly related to the "facts of the case" (the empty helmet pouring out blood dream), and pretty much all of it happens in chapters that are directly relevant to the action and the characters involved.

A lot of the Jojenpaste stuff is blink-and-you'll-miss-it things that happen in other POVs, like Jon gagging on the bloody porridge, Arya smelling blood in the weirwood cave, etc, and obviously the literary themes are a lot more subtle, like the moon being a knife, Jojen having dreams about being eaten by a direwolf (as a symbol for Bran), etc, and that's not even getting to the macro level stuff like sacrifices being made, the parallel journey of Jojen and Bran, etc.

[White Ravens]

I'm skeptical of Jojen Paste. I realize that it is probably because I haven't learned to metaphor and literature well enough, so I'm left with thinking that there isn't enough evidence. I struggle with the HS=HR theories for the same reason.

[Not a kneeler]

I believe that Jojen was sacrificed to the tree. His blood was fed to the tree, but Bran did not eat any part of Jojen. In fact earlier in that chapter we see signs of blood loss, shivering and being weak. Then he recovers a little. According to The Golden Bough, the time of the full moon is when magic is most powerful. So Jojen's blood was taken and poured to the tree at least once before the final time when they killed him to make the final connection. I believe the CoftF needed the blood of a greenseer to activate Bran's connection to the tree. In one of the later Theon chapters, Theon, while in the godswood, hears crying. I think he heard Bran who had found out that Jojen was dead.

I do not believe that any cannibalism was involved. But Jojen is dead. Also, since the blood of a greenseer is needed, neither Hodor or Meera is in any danger.

You could put me into a subcategory of Jojenpaste theory believers.

[Ingelheim]

I do. It's 100% Martin's style

[Bustard]

I do. It's 100% Martin's style

Agreed. It also helps to explain Jojen's general demeanor. Nothing makes a child seem grandfatherly quite like the prospect of imminent death.

[Lady Flandrensis]

I believe that Jojen was sacrificed to the tree. His blood was fed to the tree, but Bran did not eat any part of Jojen. In fact earlier in that chapter we see signs of blood loss, shivering and being weak. Then he recovers a little. According to The Golden Bough, the time of the full moon is when magic is most powerful. So Jojen's blood was taken and poured to the tree at least once before the final time when they killed him to make the final connection. I believe the CoftF needed the blood of a greenseer to activate Bran's connection to the tree. In one of the later Theon chapters, Theon, while in the godswood, hears crying. I think he heard Bran who had found out that Jojen was dead.

I do not believe that any cannibalism was involved. But Jojen is dead. Also, since the blood of a greenseer is needed, neither Hodor or Meera is in any danger.

You could put me into a subcategory of Jojenpaste theory believers.

I can get behind this. Jojen is sacrificed, but not eaten.

[Sansa's lemon cakes]

I believe in it, it is macabre enough for this series, which often crosses into Lovecraftian horror spectacles that would make Hannibal Lecter blush.