Lost Melnibonean Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Jojen has seen in his green dreams that he is going to lose his life when he returns to Greywater Watch....hence why he is so depressed in the cave. The books specifically state this. This entire Jojen paste theory is driven by the show....it's completely debunked in the books by Jojen still being alive and him seeing his death already. Dude, Jojen paste is driven by Bran III, Dance of ASOIAF, not the show. The theory was here when I first joined this forum in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I believed it 100% when I read it. It's brutal, yes, but it also makes sense and makes the whole chapter way more interesting.Then there was this huge backlash to it and I started doubting it a little bit, so I'm not 100% sure, but I still think it's very likely. Though I guess it may be one of those things that will never be fully answered. Jojen would have to be declared missing or dead after that, but even so it will always be possible for people to deny jojenpaste.Just like A+J=T. Even if it's true, Martin can just place some clues, make Tyrion ride a dragon and never give a definitive answer. People would be discussing the matter for decades. And this forum will survive A Dream of Spring. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I don't believe it but don't necessarily disbelieve it either. Mostly it's just rather amusing.If you really want to be amused, start a topic titled Sansa is an entitled, backstabbing princess who's going to get what's coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 And this forum will survive A Dream of Spring. :) Oh, I'm sure it will. Here in Brazil we have an author who wrote this book in 1899 where it's not clear if a woman cheated on her husband or not. People discuss the matter to this day, and schools often organize "trials" to decide if she's guilty or not. I'm pretty sure Martin will leave at least some mysteries open to debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Oh, I'm sure it will. Here in Brazil we have an author who wrote this book in 1899 where it's not clear if a woman cheated on her husband or not. People discuss the matter to this day, and schools often organize "trials" to decide if she's guilty or not. I'm pretty sure Martin will leave at least some mysteries open to debate. But it won't be Jojen Paste... Re-Read The first two chapters that Jojen is in ACOKs... Jojen will be eaten by a DireWolf... He has seen it in his Green Dreams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 But it won't be Jojen Paste... Re-Read The first two chapters that Jojen is in ACOKs... Jojen will be eaten by a DireWolf... He has seen it in his Green Dreams... By direwolf you mean the sygil of House Stark, like in Bran Stark, the guy who ate him? If anything that's another clue for jojenpaste, not against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyrnaSnowBunnyAvenger Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I don't have a solid opinion on Jojen paste yet, I think it could go either way. But a question for those that are believers - does Jojen paste necessitate 100% that he is dead? Why couldn't the Children just have cut him to take some blood? Or are keeping him somewhere in the caves to continue making blood to feed to Bran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallam Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I don't believe in this theory. The quote below seems to imply that Jojen's fate (death) lies "at home" and not in the cave. "He wants to go home," Meera told Bran. "He will not even try and fight his fate. He says the greendreams do not lie." Seems to me like a case of misdirection. It appears to say that he will go home but actually it says nothing of the sort. If this was any other author, I would assume the opposite but this is GRRM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicAndTheSquidSquad Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 What really convinced me about jojenpaste is the ragnarök theory. I know it has a lot of problems but there are a couple of characters that are perfectly match with their ragnarök version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Oh, well when you use an emoticon to say it, it's hard to argue with the mountain of textual evidence. Text to support my stance. It took me a while: ADWD Bran III: "The trees will teach him, said Leaf." [...] Inside was a white paste, thick and heavy, with dark red veins running through it. [...] "What is it?" and he is told, "A paste of weirwood seeds." p456hb He goes on to describe the taste, "It had a bitter taste, though not as bitter as acorn paste". Bran knows the taste of blood. He has warged and hunted with Summer. He did not compare the taste to blood. p457hb ASOS Samwell III: The face carved into the bone pale trunk was long and sad; red tears of dried sap leaked from its eyes.p637pb ADWD Bran III: said Jojen. [...] My task was to get you here. My part is done. p449hb If you notice, Jojen says this seven pages before Bran eats the paste. As, I said, you are welcome to believe what you choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hos the Hostage Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I don't believe in Jojen-paste or the necessity of Bran eating a greenseer.I do think its likely that Jojen may be dead or dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 If Jojenpaste requires Jojen to be dead, then no. The app clearly lists Jojen as alive. Also I read somewhere that Jojen expects to die after he returns home, but that was probably in the wiki so it could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 If Jojenpaste requires Jojen to be dead, then no. The app clearly lists Jojen as alive. Also I read somewhere that Jojen expects to die after he returns home, but that was probably in the wiki so it could be wrong.Of course the app doesn't say he's dead. That would give up the goose to feed the gander :lmao: That JJ expects to die at home is one interpretation of what Meera says about his fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous22 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 It's a 'grower'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 eh, people believed in sunscreen too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Sort of. It's very clear in that chapter that something dark happened. The easiest explanation based on the character interactions and moods is that Jojen was sacrificed. Whether Jojen was in the paste is immaterial. He was sacrificed to activate the magic, but that doesn't mean he literally has to be fed to Bran, though running with the other mentions of cannibalism in Dance I wouldn't dismiss that either. I also find it funny that so many people speak out against this theory but many also take the concept of king's blood as completely true without any doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsOfBrains Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I don't believe in this theory. The quote below seems to imply that Jojen's fate (death) lies "at home" and not in the cave. "He wants to go home," Meera told Bran. "He will not even try and fight his fate. He says the greendreams do not lie." There have been a couple examples in the texts where "going home" is a euphemism for death. For example the Dornish Bloody Mummer right before he dies shouts at Brienne "Send me back to Dorne you bloody bitch!" I also think that when Quentyn dies Missandei says something like, "his gods have taken him home". If you read that quote as, "He wants to die, he wont even fight." it fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Sort of. It's very clear in that chapter that something dark happened. The easiest explanation based on the character interactions and moods is that Jojen was sacrificed. Whether Jojen was in the paste is immaterial. He was sacrificed to activate the magic, but that doesn't mean he literally has to be fed to Bran, though running with the other mentions of cannibalism in Dance I wouldn't dismiss that either. I also find it funny that so many people speak out against this theory but many also take the concept of king's blood as completely true without any doubt. No one thus far has been required to eat/drink king's blood. King's blood can be used without killing the person with the blood too. Maybe Jojen just donated a pint for the cause. Hey, maybe Jojen has king's blood. He could be descended from House Mudd, the ancient river kings. Or maybe the weirwood paste tastes like blood because of all the sacrifices/executions done in weirwood groves over the centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Of course the app doesn't say he's dead. That would give up the goose to feed the gander :lmao:That JJ expects to die at home is one interpretation of what Meera says about his fate.Well there's a difference between keeping something back and outright lying. He's listed as alive. If they wanted to leave it questionable they could have written presumed alive, presumed dead, fate unknown, stuck in a cave, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 It's a 'grower'. This could mean so many things. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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