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[Book Spoilers] EP507 Discussion

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I also find it unconceivable that people whine about Sansa not being empowered or getting stronger. Why should she be getting stronger? What's the problem with her continuing to be a victim?

Because every other female in the show is either a victim or a violent bitch. There is no layers.

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Shireen is not going to get burned.

Because if that would be the case, they would have to kill Davos before they could kill her(he is her protector), but we know "they"(Stannis troops) are not going to kill Davos because he is running with them across Stannis camp(trailer scene), which is burning.

My theory up until now has been that Stannis camp burning means Dragon Fire, and I still think that this is by far the most likeliest possibility - especially considering the recent revelation about Jon returning to the Wall in E9 as opposed to E10 - however there is yet another possibility;

Stannis refusing to sacrifice Shireen, and then Mel - either alone or with the help of Brienne - kills Stannis, and then uses his blood to create a big fire show in the camp, so she can escape to the Wall.

So we are going to see in E9 either Drogon destroying Stannis camp, or Mel destroying Stannis camp.

Sir, i salute your tenacity and persistence.

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I like the references to Cersei burning down cities, because it supports the idea of Jaime eventually killing her Valonquar-style. (BTW, I wonder if we'll get the rest of the Maggy scene next week?)



I always hated that Jaime abandoned Cersei when she called for his help, because I felt it was motivated by her infidelity. It's a fine reason for him to be pissed off, but not sufficient for him to leave her to die IMO. (I remember yelling WTF and various versions of that when I read that part in AFFC.) I do believe that he will eventually kill her, but having him do it to save the city is much more satisfying than his motive being jealousy.



Also, given that Myrcella seems to be fully Team-Martell, I wonder if they are setting up a Jaime & Myrcella vs Cersei &Tommen clash. In particular, if Tommen launches an attack against the Faith and initiates some sort of massacre, becoming Joffrey 2.0, I can see Jaime thinking Myrcella would be a better ruler than him. The Dance of the Lions. But this is pure speculation on my part.


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What if Stannis casts Melisandre out of his circle, believing he will defeat the Boltons on his own terms after Davos reminds him how she did not win him the war thus far, then ends up captured and caged, filling Mance's book role? Davos may hear that Rickon and Bran are not dead through Theon, directly or indirectly and goes on a quest north of the wall to retrieve them after a daring escape. And Melisandre instead seeks out Jon Snow.


Edited by The Emberheart

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I always hated that Jaime abandoned Cersei when she called for his help, because I felt it was motivated by her infidelity. It's a fine reason for him to be pissed off, but not sufficient for him to leave her to die IMO. (I remember yelling WTF and various versions of that when I read that part in AFFC.) I do believe that he will eventually kill her, but having him do it to save the city is much more satisfying than his motive being jealousy.

It's not jealousy. It's more like Jaime has lived his life for Cersei. Even being a KG had to do with Cersei. And Cersei has lived her life while taking Jaime for granted. His sacrifices were worthy because he thought he was getting the same from her. It was not.

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Because every other female in the show is either a victim or a violent bitch. There is no layers.

There aren't many job opportunities for quiet philosophers in war-torn Westeros. Characters are butchers, they are meat, or they are whining sidekicks like Davos.

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Thinking it's Stannis shes saving but ends up resurrecting Jon instead.. I can see it going that way. She won't have to be back at the wall to do that, it's obvious that when Stannis rides to battle the women (Mel, Selyse and Shireen) are not going with him but staying further back instead so it's possible Melisandre will get word that Stannis died even though he didn't. And then she'll burn poor Shireen asking her lord to bring back the one who will lead the battle against the dead and Jon will open his eyes. End credits, see you next year. Or something, I don't believe in coincidences in this show and Mel did remind Stannis of being the chosen one tonight and it was said in the same conversation where she asked if she could burn Shireen.

Oh my...

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Cersei's speech to Tommen of "I'll burn cities to the ground" made me swallow. I'm starting to think that GRRM has D&D put a few foreshadowings of the books in each season to tease the readers as well.

This is not the first time she's said it either - IIRC, once to Tywin last season, talking about him wresting control of Tommen, once again to Jaime this season talking about Dorne. Looks like Cersei going batshit crazy and zapping King's Landing out seems like a very likely event in the future.

Wow, didn't pay attention to that, but it makes a lot of sense. Do you remember Daenerys' visions at the House of the Undying and how the Red Keep was covered in snow? Not only covered in snow, but it also was in ruins, like... if it was burned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7VuGknEfQY

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The R+L=J hints are awkwardly obvious now. "Promise me." So a desperate Sansa and a desperate Gilly both use that line in a single episode. Wow/eye-rolling. I bet they thought they were so clever.

I didn't even want to post anything this week, cause there's really nothing to add left, but come the fuck on. That's possibly the single most retarded complaint I've heard so far. If that gets your eyes rolling they are probably spinning out of your head. Its crap like that that gives bookreaders such a bad rep.

Alright, since I'm already writing: Yeah, pretty solid episode. The sansa-stuff is still a big question mark, though. It might work in the end, it might not, impossible to say so far. Liked the Sam-stuff, finally liked some of the Dorne stuff, the Mereen-stuff was pretty forced plotwise but I'll allow it. Only thing: I kind of disliked that the Tyrion/Daenerys meet felt so small and insignificant. I guess that's another bookreader thing. I've been waiting for that moment for quite sometime and D&D took it away from GRRM without really doing it justice.

Another thing I've noticed: Some places could really use some establishing shots. They obviously spent loads of money on giving us Meeren and other cities in Essos. But we haven't really seen what Winterfell looks like since it was burned down and Dorne has been a couple of open fields of grass and a garden. We have not seen a single dornish civilian person, which makes Dorne feel really small.

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I tend to think of them as more the Spanish Inquisitioin, minus the Comfy Chair.

Well, I certainly didn't expect that...

So that's what "the gift" meant. How disappointing.

Yeah. I was expecting it to be something about the Gift to the NW from Bran the Builder....

I liked this episode overall, even the Dorne stuff wasn't that bad.

There were a couple of things about it that I liked... :cool4:

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I also find it unconceivable that people whine about Sansa not being empowered or getting stronger. Why should she be getting stronger? What's the problem with her continuing to be a victim?

You here this "argument" over and over and over again. "Now, she's a victim again!!!!" But why is that bad writing? It's much more bad writing, when she develops into a completely different personality within two or three years, starts taking revenge and kicking ass all the time....

Constantly being the victim is a theme in many people's lives. A woman who is in an abusive relationship is much more likely to once again go into another abusive relationship. They repeat that cycle....

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As somebody who has trashed the Dorne material for the first part of this season....



This was the first episode that the Dorne material was all up to par with the rest of the show....


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I also find it unconceivable that people whine about Sansa not being empowered or getting stronger. Why should she be getting stronger? What's the problem with her continuing to be a victim?

You here this "argument" over and over and over again. "Now, she's a victim again!!!!" But why is that bad writing? It's much more bad writing, when she develops into a completely different personality within two or three years, starts taking revenge and kicking ass all the time....

Folks want to see character development and not character regression. Sansa seems to have regressed due to the writers. But we don't know what GRRM has instore for her character.

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In this history of the human species, it is arguably possible that rape comprises the majority of acts of heterosexual copulation. At least a sizable chunk.

I think one of the great ways GRRM's books are progressive is by showing the hideous nature of human history, warts and all. That not only includes rape, it puts it front and center.

Sorry, but if we can have 3 trial-by-combats in 5 seasons, I think 5 rapes in the same amount of time is perfectly reasonable. Rape was EXTREMELY common up until a few hundred years ago.

How the hell do you know? We can't even get decent statistics now; we sure don't have them for earlier historical periods.

Not to mention the fact that women like sex and that love stories are as old as the hills.

The "dark ages" weren't all that dark according to recent scholarship.

I am beyond sick of the "historical justification for rape" line of many GOT fans.

Rape is common today. There is no real reason to see it as more common in earlier times.

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As somebody who has trashed the Dorne material for the first part of this season....

This was the first episode that the Dorne material was all up to par with the rest of the show....

Is that a compliment to the rise of Dorne or an insult the descent of the rest of the show's material?

Edited by ServantOnIce

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LF's brothel scene was extremely sad. I mean, after he was done using his favorite peephole one last time, he looked so sad...

That actually was a great scene, he actually looked wounded . . . . good to see LF get some of his own medicine after all the death and destruction he has caused.

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wow, the proper discussion thread has more pages used than that rant and rave echo chamber :O



Good episode. I thought by the title it was going to be Arya giving The Gift to somebody (Trant probably) but instead it was lots of other people giving gifts to each other.


Sansa a candle to Theon.


Littlefinger an informant to Oleanna.


Cersei a meal to Margery.


Jorah a Lannister to Dany.



Still another build up episode, so we're still waiting for the real action. HS was great in both his scenes. Oleanna was great in hers.



The Brienne standing there waiting for a candle thing is pretty feeble though.


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