Jacob H'ghar Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I've seen someone post in the Rants thread about how stupid the NK's strategy attacking Hardhome was and I had the thought that I thought might be worthy of discussion: What if this attack was more or less a dry run to test how well an attack on the wall would work when the wildlings side with the NW. You've got the whole setting in a smaller scale at hardhome:A (very small - i know) wall defended by wildlings and NW soldiers. Obviously the NW is there in smaller numbers than they would be at the wall and the defenses are much less elaborate especially lacking any kind of magic that the wall is said to possess. To compensate for this he attacks first with smaller numbers not completely overwhelming them and also more of the skellington whights that seem to drop much faster than the "fresher" whights that have just recently died.. When the first attack solely by whights didn't prove completely successful he upped the ante by adding a sigle WW in the mix. Seing Jon take this "elite unit" down quite easily made him decide to go all in with the whight wave over the cliff, maybe trying to get rid of this adversary (Jon) able to kill WW. Maybe I'm giving way to much credit to D&D about how much thought went into this and they just thought the way the scene plays out is just the best dramatic arch but well, that's my two cents and I'd like to know your opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jugdesh258 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Why do they say it is bad strategy for Night King guy? Looks like the opposite to me. Without any boats the Wildlings cornered themselves giving irresistible advantage to enemy . It could have been worse if attacked by Stannis from land and sea. The topograpy D+D creates makes it worse for wildings being surrounded by cliffs giving enemy the highground. Others need to invent the cannon and use artillery to wipe out wildlings. The only thing about the wall as practice is that wall is supposed to be Magic barrier so they need a plan for that rather. Generally, from battle of the FIst of FM that WW are mixed in with resurrected. Some think there are limited WW but I think that is only the elite or sorcerer ones since they could have had thousands of years of sacrifice from guy like Craster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remdawg Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Not sure it was a dry run so much as they had the advantage and any wildlings/NW they killed could be added to their forces. If anything it appears he doubled the size of his Army. IMO that was nothing but a clear and total rout by the army of the dead. Certainly he took pause when Jon killed one of the WW but overall a very successful battle for the NK. The goofiest part to me is that in both the show and the books the Freefolk know fire kills the Wights and they know wights are out there. Mance has Varamyr constantly scouting for Wight movement. Why weren't those at hardhome more geared up with flaming defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xarkar Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Seems more likely to me that the point is simply to add more dead to his ranks. As far as they knew, everyone at Hardhome was there to stay, and would be easy pickings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay21 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I'm not entirely sure that our crown headed friend from the tv series is the NK. I find it easier to believe that he is an Azog like mock up of a leader created by the show's producers to facilitate television drama. The producers conspicuously didn't kill of LC Snow this episode, perhaps they will have a duel before season's end and that will be how the show does him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edd Tollett's One Vote Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 There was an interesting theory I read on here that suggested that the WW might be after the dragon glass. That might explain why they initially sent in just a few to get it, with the walker. But when Jon killed the Walker, the NK decided to go in full force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Chang Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Had it not been for Jon's arrival the Night King would have bagged a full house. They had no Dragon Glass and would have been caught pretty much by surprise. It's not a dry run.. that was kick off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnowed Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I'm not entirely sure that our crown headed friend from the tv series is the NK. I find it easier to believe that he is an Azog like mock up of a leader created by the show's producers to facilitate television drama. The producers conspicuously didn't kill of LC Snow this episode, perhaps they will have a duel before season's end and that will be how the show does him in. They have confirmed it is the Nights King in a behind the scenes piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxter Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Seemed pretty clear to me the plan all along from the NK's perspective was to get the Wildlings cornered so he could double, triple, quadruple his army in a single battle instead of piecemeal pickup through the forests. You could argue the only failure of his was not getting there in time to beat the NW's boats. Also - how the heck could it be a bad plan - all the NK has to do is raise the dead after any battle. So barring he and his lieutenants being destroyed his plans have no need for efficiency whatsoever if you think about it. As far as the NK is concerned, up until that battle he had no reason to fear men at all as far as strategizing for his invasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAndFullOfTurnips Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The only setback they suffered was because by complete chance they encountered a good, fearless fighter who happens to wield a Valyrian Steel sword who was lucky enough to not be killed. I'm not really sure how the plan was stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The NK's plan was the equivalent of ordering your groceries online and then going to the store to collect them in a nice little package. The NK ordered a free army and he went to Hardhome to collect it. A pretty simple but highly efficient plan. The more wights the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The plan was perfect. The only annoyance was Ned's sullen bastard and the sword he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagganaro Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I don't read that Rant and Rave thread but how could anyone find this plan stupid? The NK deprived the Night's Watch of a huge source of potential recruits and people, all the while adding signficantly to his own army and preventing a constant source of wights (the wildlings) from getting beyond the Wall's protection. In the process, he also was able to get the huge cache of Dragonglass Jon brought to Hardhome, taking away a weapon that could kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 But still, the NK in the end was like "This is how we roll, baby" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckface Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 As much as i like to rant and rave about the show, i don't think there is anything wrong with NK's strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpenn Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Wonder if touching/holding dragon glass kills a White Walker, or if they have to be cut/stabbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckface Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The NK's plan was the equivalent of ordering your groceries online and then going to the store to collect them in a nice little package. The NK ordered a free army and he went to Hardhome to collect it. A pretty simple but highly efficient plan. The more wights the better.This. The only real casualty was that one Other, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't expecting someone to have a VS sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Nan Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The only setback they suffered was because by complete chance they encountered a good, fearless fighter who happens to wield a Valyrian Steel sword who was lucky enough to not be killed. I'm not really sure how the plan was stupid. That's what I think too, I mean the NK got a whole bunch of new wights for his army and only suffered one casualty that was unanticipated because he didn't know Jon had Valyrian steel. I don't see how his plan was in any way unsuccessful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 It seemed like a pretty good plan to me. They managed to ambush a disorganized force that was pinned against a body of water with no hope of retreat. Or, rather, that would have been the case had Jon not shown up with Stannis' fleet to evacuate them. Otherwise, the losses the wildlings suffered would have been total. They would have been completely annihilated. They likely did suffer a significant loss when Jon killed the WW; I doubt they're expendable or easily replaced. Still, from their standpoint, it ended in a large net positive for the Others and the Night's King as they greatly expanded their force of undead zombies...I mean, wights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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