Rant and Rave without Repercussion [Book Spoilers]

[aliasocfan]

The 'she's going to burn in the books anyways' justification is ridiculous. If Robb had ordered Theon to take Winterfell and try to kill Bran and Rickon would that be okay, because you know, Theon did that in the books anways?

The thing that I find unforgivable is that killing Shireen this way was done for pure shock value, and the story contrivances necessary to make it happen did not in any way enrich the story. Add to the fact this re-enforces a troubling 'theme' in this season in how female characters are treated (and this is coming from someone who would balk at being called a feminist) and I feel like the show is indefensible.

yes.

The same reason why at the Red Wedding a pregnant woman was stabbed repeatedly in the belly.

It's like they took writing tips from the writers of American Horror Story.

[bobbybuilderton]

So this youtube personality, Comicbookgirl19, used to do episode reviews of game of thrones. She listed 5 reasons why they stopped. I only just now got around to reading them. Part of one point was hilarious and very fitting for this episode:

It is incredible to have a show on this level and it has helped change the landscape of TV. However, we need to come to terms with the fact that this is a dangerous and scary undertaking in diverting from the book so much. They are going to just start making stuff up. It could be great, but I think the brilliance of Game of Thrones shows success is still 80% George RR Martin, and 20% HBO. Without George's 80%....well, I wish them luck.

[SerMixalot]

By far the worst part of the abomination that killing shireen is, is the fact that Balon is still alive. If some red headed twat asked me to burn my daughter at the stake I would say WHEN IS BALON GONNA DIE. Finish what you have started before moving on to the next item!

[Nights Kings Queen]

Wtf is with Dany's hair?! It's more blonde than silver.

This is something that drives me mental. For my first read I imagined the show blonde thinking that's what targaryen hair was. A blend of silver and gold.

And it's not just me who thinks this, alot of people forget she has silver hair and alot of people believe targ hair is blonde. It's why all the paintings of previous targs in the world book have gold freaking hair!

Seriously driving me mental.

[Sub_Zero94]

I'm struggling to come up with a word that defines this episode for me. The ones that come first to mind are "hackneyed" and "lame." It wasn't terrible, it wasn't great. It just seems like a pretty sloppy episode.

Stannis' Camp

You have to hand it to Ramsay's Raiders, they sure are good at their work. They managed to burn the supply lines, all the siege equipment, and cut the horse lines without setting off a single alarm or being captured. You'd think one of them would try to slip into Stannis' tent and kill him, seeing as they so effortlessly breached the perimeter. I love how the report was of "20 men or less." Good guess, man! The whole Davos to CB thing seemed to go off so smoothly. He obviously has strong suspicions about burning Shireen (and if he doesn't, he's an idiot) but he just goes off without even an attempt at a Gendry plan. The whole Shireen/Stannis scene felt very contrived to me. Not nearly as good as the one earlier in the season. I guess Stannis' rambling about having to choose should have been deep, but it just left me shaking my head. And you can't get much more heavy-handed than "Is there any way I can help? I'm you're daughter!" What the fuck was with making Selyse come around at the last minute? Was the actress mistakenly acting out Stannis' part? The whole season she's been ready to burn her, and then they chicken out with the depiction at the last minute. I get that wanting a thing in theory and going through with it are two different things, but it seemed to come out of nowhere. The burning Shireen screams were SO gratuitous.

The Wall

Man, even for a show where half the characters own jetpacks, that was a ridiculously quick journey. They got back from Hardhome with hundreds of women, children, and presumably injured people in about a day and a half. Hey look, guys! It's Olly! In case you didn't know, he's none too happy about this wildling business! Don't worry, I think he's coming around, though. He'll probably be over it in a day or so.

Dorne

In Dorne we have another awkward characterization flip. Faullaria goes from from angrily pouring out one for her homies to crying in front of Doran to telling Jaime that she's totes cool with incest (I mean, she's Dornish after all, those pervs have no taboos amirite?) all in the space of ten minutes. Meanwhile, the Sand Fakes are playing the slap game...for some reason. Also, Trystane gets to be on the small council because being sixteen, smarmy, and having a glass jaw are totally all the qualifications you need! Meanwhile, someone stole Myrcella's necklace out of her room and Bronn gets punched for our amusement!

Braavos

Jesus, Arya really shouldn't have been given this mission, because she is the most awkward and obvious assassin to ever walk the planet. Marvel as she suspiciously pulls a bottle out and then hides it on her person right in front of her intended target! Also, apparently the most appropriate place for a high ranking official of the Iron Bank to meet the Hand of the King is on a smelly dock in Ragman's Harbor. Watch as Arya follows ten feet behind glaring daggers at Meryn Trant while still pushing her oyster cart. Mace Tyrell has a bitching singing voice, though. In case you didn't hate Meryn Trant enough, listen to him make a homophobic joke about a character that has been dead for years! Arya continues her stellar plan of standing around a brothel and gaping like a moron without a plan. Then, eventually she is kicked out. What stellar television this is!

Meereen

The best thing you can say about this section is that the fight choreography is much better than it has been for most of this season, which is good, because there are endless minutes of it! The hamfisted Daario/Dany/Hizzy love triangle conversation was so incredibly awkward. Then Tyrion got off some sick burn about Hizzy being an idiot that made no sense, but it's cool, because he is such a wise and trusted advisor now! A fighter hesitates in killing Jorah for no apparent reason. I guess he thought he was in Gladiator for a second and needed Dany's approval, even though Hizzy explicitly states that she wouldn't be able to stop it anyway. Then Jorah uses his eagle eye to kill a Harpy that somehow escaped detection by all the guards and was like three feet behind Dany. Then the Harpies just start killing...everyone? Wait, why are they doing that? Aren't they Meereenese freedom fighters? Why are they just slaughtering people in the crowd left and right? Then Hizzy gets stabbed and Jorah touches Dany because he either keeps forgetting he has the most contagious disease ever or he wants Dany to get it. Tyrion gets to bravely save Missy because Greyworm has been in the hospital for three months and he needs to prove he is as strong as he is smart. Then the Harpies surround Dany, but I guess they hit their cue too early or else Drogon was really late because they stand around like idiots until dragontime. Dany's reaction to this whole mess is of course to close her eyes and wait for death. She gets 1/100th of the badassness of the book moment where she whips Drogon into submission before flying out of the pit on a giant piece of rubber. Good times.

I'm ready for this to be over now.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Word

[JonCon's Red Beard]

We have the equivalent in Portuguese "Vergonha alheia", which is when you feel embarassment from something someone else did, since it's so awful. I remember watching a dreadful comedy show a few years back and having to leave due to "vergonha alheia". Oh, wait... That's Dorne in a nutshell.

Sounds like it's related to "fremdscham" in German. I was feeling that as well - laughing and cringing.

Yes. that's it. So, it's just our english speaker friends.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

I'm still raging about what happened to Shireen. They said it happens in the books.

It has to have something to do with Val (who they cut from the show), Mel and Selyse. I cannot see Stannis being involved. It might be a jerk reaction to the pink letter?

It's "happens in the books" the same way Jaime/Cersei sex scene at Joffrey's funneral "happens in the books" or Ramsay rapes his bride "happens in the books".

No, it actually doesn't happen in the books, at least not in the same way, for the same reason, with the same context. One could only think "it also happens in the books" if one has no ability to understand things like context. Which apparently describes D&D to a T.

[MordredDayne]

I guess this also proves that the imdb cast lists are not to be trusted. Wasn't Yara supposed to be in this episode? I believe it said her and Balon were supposed to be in the next episode, too. What's the fucking point now, though. Mel managed to get Stannis to burn his daughter based in 2/3 deaths and a promising weather forecast.

[Good Guy Garlan]

They should change House Martell's words to Bowed, Bent and Broken

They should change all mottos, to be honest:

Baratheon: "Ours is the Fanfic"

Stark: "Ramsay is Coming (literally)"

Lannister: "Hear me Bore"

Targaryen: "Sci-Fi(re) and Dumb"

Tyrell: "Growing Strong (Yes, We Mean Loras' Dick. When He Bangs Dudes. Because He's Gay)"

(I don't even know what I'm doing)

[RGBeyondAsshai]

Husband and I are just sort of staring at each other, not sure where to begin. The one or two good moments or the epic screw up that is the pacing/choices/writing of this season...

The Wall: Alliser actually said something nice to Jon. That was a special grudging moment I wanted to savor but the whole scene went by so quickly. No one is going to mention what happened at Hardhome? Really? We're just going to watch Wildlings walking in a line so we can see Scowly Olly scowl at Jon--who looks surprised. How can you be surprised Jon? He killed Ygritte. He's a traumatized little boy who has already told you he doesn't get it. Wake up and put extra armor on. He is so going to stab you.

Kings Landing. Nothing. Crickets. We don't need to know about anything going on there right? Let's go to exciting Dorne instead.

Dorne...Slap hands and quid pro punch. Oberyn's girl really needs some therapy and Xanax, but all we could think was Why? Why are we here? Does it take this long to say "Take the princess back to King's Landing"? Nothing was revealed. No great speeches happened. Completely pointless.

Stannis Camp: Here is my problem. They spent this season rebranding the Stan Man. He's insightful. He admires Jon Snow. He smiles on occasion and he loves his daughter. We know he had a shadow baby kill his brother but hell, he isn't completely horrible. He's a warrior. A man of honor with no sense of humor but...WTF?! Seriously? Mr. I ate all the rats and people's legs to survive a siege has one little supply fire and totally caves. Sure it's a shit situation but NOT even close to being a big enough issue to go there so quickly. His only heir. The only one. And his evil wife shows the most compassion? No soldier goes, "Hey don't burn a little girl!"? Not one? It's that crazy woman who keeps male fetuses in jars and glares at Shireen, she's the only one to think maybe burning this innocent, angelic child is a mistake? This, to me, is the worst story decision to date for the way it was pulled off. Just horror. Just straight horror without the right build up.

I saw the potential of Shireen going that way in the books, and I saw it in the show but they did it in an unforgivable and careless way.

Mereen: This was fun. Dany's face when people were fighting. Husband and I started talking to the television "Really Dany? Do you remember when you lived with the Dothraki? Every party was full of blood and nudity. You ate a heart. Don't act like you're too civilized to like this."

Also-yeah-How many people are in the Sons of the Harpy and why are they killing everyone?

And we also shouted when Jorah touched Dany and then Dany touched Missy. That is how a plague begins.

...Jorah was badass. So that was good.

I think as the 9th episode in a 10 episode season they wasted a lot of time in Dorne. The Wall and King's Landing are more important now. And Meryn Trant brothel time was also a waste. No one likes him. Everyone knows his face. We didn't need that scene to be okay with Arya killing him. Not at all.

I admit it, I'm really sad about Shireen. She was a truly good character. So of course, let's just burn her. :(

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Same here, kill her, put her out of her misery.

This episode was filled with melodrama, and the trailer was the same, especially the part with her. I actually laughed, it was so over the top. And I really like her in the books, no disrespect. It's just laughable. She looks like the tragedy mask in the tragedy and comedy masks for drama.

It was awful. Not only because that is NOT Sansa but because she turned into this after she was raped.

[tazmin98]

This is something that drives me mental. For my first read I imagined the show blonde thinking that's what targaryen hair was. A blend of silver and gold.

And it's not just me who thinks this, alot of people forget she has silver hair and alot of people believe targ hair is blonde. It's why all the paintings of previous targs in the world book have gold freaking hair!

Seriously driving me mental.

Well it doesn't look good on Stoneface head. The overall hairstyle is just..._

maybe it's symbolic like with her dad. The stress of ruling takes away their Targ glow

[Nights Kings Queen]

Oh god. I said this in my review for this episode but I want to bitch slap tyrstane and myrcella for being complete snobs. Hate them both. Hopefully his glass jaw would break.

[aliasocfan]

It's "happens in the books" the same way Jaime/Cersei sex scene at Joffrey's funneral "happens in the books" or Ramsay rapes his bride "happens in the books".

No, it actually doesn't happen in the books, at least not in the same way, for the same reason, with the same context. One could only think "it also happens in the books" if one has no ability to understand things like context. Which apparently describes D&D to a T.

Totally agree with you. Context is very important.

I doubt Stannis is directly involved.

With Val's comments about the child being unclean, maybe she talks Mel and Selyse into it.

(thought it does take away from my complaint about females characters that violence that does not happen to them in the books)

[teej6]

I listened to a bit of the inside the episode thing, and from what I've heard, GRRM did not tell them Stannis burns Shireen. What they say is "When George told us about this. . ." I wouldn't put it past them to have heard "Melisandre burns Shireen" and understood it as "Melisandre and Stannis burn Shireen." Because they have pretty much always shown that they understand Stannis to be Melisandre's bitch.

Oh and they also go on to say how they thought it was so bad but so good at the same time, from a storytelling perspective.

They really make me quite sick

And even if Stannis has Shireen burned in the books (which I highly doubt considering that he's telling Massey to make sure Shireen get's the throne if he dies, and the fact that Shireen and Stannis are not together in the books anymore) it won't be because he lost his food stores. I guess dumb and dumber missed the part where Stannis held Storm's End while he and his men were starving and surviving on boiled leather.

[LadySoftheart]

I'm right there with you. I honestly don't even know where to begin. I read the spoilers earlier today, so I thought that would give me time to process. Boy was I wrong. I still need time to process the shitshow I just witnessed.

:lol:

You're damn right :angry2:

Hey, don't forget the Tully fans, Lannister fans, Brienne fans ... in fact, D&D are doing as good a job of uniting ASOIAF fans as Aegon Targaryen did of uniting the Seven Kingdoms. Instead of dragons, they have crimes against young girls as their motivator :P

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Also,. for those who don't get it, Martin's post:

"See, I saw this show that is being AMAZINGLY adapted. And the books are even BETTER. Also, it features a GREAT ACTOR that is both in this AMAZINGLY adapted show and the other one"

Translated:

"See, I saw this show that is being AMAZINGLY adapted, unlike Game of Thrones. And the books are even BETTER, just like ASOIAF. Also, it features a GREAT ACTOR that is both in this AMAZINGLY adapted show and the other one who forgot the character he plays exists, and this show is great because they aren't wasting his talent. So, you better go and watch this AMAZINGLY adapted show instead".

The subtext:

"I hate Game of Thrones, my books are better".

[LadySoftheart]

Yes. that's it. So, it's just our english speaker friends.

We call it secondhand embarrassment.

[R4W13Y]

Husband and I are just sort of staring at each other, not sure where to begin. The one or two good moments or the epic screw up that is the pacing/choices/writing of this season...

The Wall: Alliser actually said something nice to Jon. That was a special grudging moment I wanted to savor but the whole scene went by so quickly. No one is going to mention what happened at Hardhome? Really? We're just going to watch Wildlings walking in a line so we can see Scowly Olly scowl at Jon--who looks surprised. How can you be surprised Jon? He killed Ygritte. He's a traumatized little boy who has already told you he doesn't get it. Wake up and put extra armor on. He is so going to stab you.

Kings Landing. Nothing. Crickets. We don't need to know about anything going on there right? Let's go to exciting Dorne instead.

Dorne...Slap hands and quid pro punch. Oberyn's girl really needs some therapy and Xanax, but all we could think was Why? Why are we here? Does it take this long to say "Take the princess back to King's Landing"? Nothing was revealed. No great speeches happened. Completely pointless.

Stannis Camp: Here is my problem. They spent this season rebranding the Stan Man. He's insightful. He admires Jon Snow. He smiles on occasion and he loves his daughter. We know he had a shadow baby kill his brother but hell, he isn't completely horrible. He's a warrior. A man of honor with no sense of humor but...WTF?! Seriously? Mr. I ate all the rats and people's legs to survive a siege has one little supply fire and totally caves. Sure it's a shit situation but NOT even close to being a big enough issue to go there so quickly. His only heir. The only one. And his evil wife shows the most compassion? No soldier goes, "Hey don't burn a little girl!"? Not one? It's that crazy woman who keeps male fetuses in jars and glares at Shireen, she's the only one to think maybe burning this innocent, angelic child is a mistake? This, to me, is the worst story decision to date for the way it was pulled off. Just horror. Just straight horror without the right build up.

I saw the potential of Shireen going that way in the books, and I saw it in the show but they did it in an unforgivable and careless way.

Mereen: This was fun. Dany's face when people were fighting. Husband and I started talking to the television "Really Dany? Do you remember when you lived with the Dothraki? Every party was full of blood and nudity. You ate a heart. Don't act like you're too civilized to like this."

Also-yeah-How many people are in the Sons of the Harpy and why are they killing everyone?

And we also shouted when Jorah touched Dany and then Dany touched Missy. That is how a plague begins.

...Jorah was badass. So that was good.

I think as the 9th episode in a 10 episode season they wasted a lot of time in Dorne. The Wall and King's Landing are more important now. And Meryn Trant brothel time was also a waste. No one likes him. Everyone knows his face. We didn't need that scene to be okay with Arya killing him. Not at all.

I admit it, I'm really sad about Shireen. She was a truly good character. So of course, let's just burn her. :(

You made such great points! Thanks for writing out your thoughts. I still can't write mine out, but everyone else is doing such a great job!!

[JonCon's Red Beard]

They should change all mottos, to be honest:

Baratheon: "Ours is the Fanfic"

Stark: "Ramsay is Coming (literally)"

Lannister: "Hear me Bore"

Targaryen: "Sci-Fi(re) and Dumb"

Tyrell: "Growing Strong (Yes, We Mean Loras' Dick. When He Bangs Dudes. Because He's Gay)"

(I don't even know what I'm doing)

:lmao: