Ser Not Appearing Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 They may try and frame someone, likely a Wildling if that's the approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amun Ra Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Whatever happens it will be completely illogical, much like killing Jon Snow. In the books, Jon Snow is about to do something that has nothing to do with protecting the realm from ice wizards and frost zombies. The NIght's Watch actually have a case for deposing a Lord Commander who's about to launch a trivial war involving the Night's Watch (who are sworn not to get involved) to rescue his sister during the most important epoch in the history of the Night's Watch. Killing Jon Snow actually makes sense. In the show, by contrast, the Night's Watch are not upset about Jon Snow using the Night's Watch to launch a personal war during the end of times; they're upset that he brought wildlings south. Wildlings. As if, after the events of Hardhome, the wildlings matter at all anymore, other than as allies in the coming war against ice wizards and their army of frost zombies. It is such terrible writing that I could not stop rolling my eyes during Snow's assassination. "Look," I thought to myself, "a bunch of people making nonsensical decisions in a world government by nonsense." You again??? Is there ANY thread where you would not respond with your hateful comments? Why do you even bother to watch the show if you think the books are sacred? In the books, killing Jon Snow does NOT make that much sense, especially killing him in the midst of both Night's Watch members and Stannis's men. And you DON'T know if Jon's decision was the reason or just a catalyst that lead to his assassination. Just stop watching the TV show and go back reading the books you love so much. BTW I'm the book reader too and I found no such problem in Tv series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You again??? Is there ANY thread where you would not respond with your hateful comments? Why do you even bother to watch the show if you think the books are sacred? In the books, killing Jon Snow does NOT make that much sense, especially killing him in the midst of both Night's Watch members and Stannis's men. And you DON'T know if Jon's decision was the reason or just a catalyst that lead to his assassination. Just stop watching the TV show and go back reading the books you love so much. BTW I'm the book reader too and I found no such problem in Tv series. Look, if you don't want to see sustained criticism of the TV show, stop coming to forums set up specifically to host critical discussion of the TV show. If you find yourself shocked to see sustained critique, you're in the wrong place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Merlan Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You again??? Is there ANY thread where you would not respond with your hateful comments? Why do you even bother to watch the show if you think the books are sacred? In the books, killing Jon Snow does NOT make that much sense, especially killing him in the midst of both Night's Watch members and Stannis's men. And you DON'T know if Jon's decision was the reason or just a catalyst that lead to his assassination. Just stop watching the TV show and go back reading the books you love so much. BTW I'm the book reader too and I found no such problem in Tv series. Well I'll have to back Borodin up, on this one. With the Hardhome episode, the show stripped FTW mostly of all it's justification. I watched the episode yesterday with some friends, who haven't read the books and they couldn't understand the reasons why Jon was stabbed. At last it was just a bunch of xenophobic people who don't like the wildlings ... because.Despite my own opinion, that the scene was poorly directed, it just didn't made a lot of sense to me. If Thorne is so against the wildlings south of the wall, why did he let them trough in the first place? Why not lock them north of the wall together with the hated (?) LC and be done with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Well I'll have to back Borodin up, on this one. With the Hardhome episode, the show stripped FTW mostly of all it's justification. I watched the episode yesterday with some friends, who haven't read the books and they couldn't understand the reasons why Jon was stabbed. At last it was just a bunch of xenophobic people who don't like the wildlings ... because.Despite my own opinion, that the scene was poorly directed, it just didn't made a lot of sense to me. If Thorne is so against the wildlings south of the wall, why did he let them trough in the first place? Why not lock them north of the wall together with the hated (?) LC and be done with it? The only reason I think of is that that was before they knew of Stannis' demise. As long as Stannis was around, his positive relationsjip with Jon made making a move against Jon inadvisable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramla Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 They committed treason, in the books they had a way better leg to stand on. In the show they have zero leg to stand on. In the book its a slippery slope. Jon actually doesn't really renounce his vows, he simply wants Ramsey to answer for what he said in the letter. Thats not actualy wrong. Nightwatch men can defend thier honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 In the book its a slippery slope. Jon actually doesn't really renounce his vows, he simply wants Ramsey to answer for what he said in the letter. Thats not actualy wrong. Nightwatch men can defend thier honor. Exactly! Since when is it against any NW vows to defend oneself? The Pink Letter openly threatens the LC of the NW. And, remember, in the books Jon does not order any NW members to come with him. He asks for volunteers, sure, but he also makes it perfectly clear that no one has to come with him. Besides, he knows the vast majority of those coming with him to Winterfell will be Wildlings in any case. No, those who chose to assassinate Jon were a few extremely xenophobic NW brothers who could not handle the cognitive dissonance of their sworn enemies now becoming their allies because there's a new, bigger, badder, common enemy on the scene. I can't imagine things ending up very well for Jon's assassins in either the show or the books. But I'll be especially interested to see how it plays out in the books because it will actually make some sense ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion's Third Wife Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Well, the wall is going to come down. This is just a step in that direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 In the book its a slippery slope. Jon actually doesn't really renounce his vows, he simply wants Ramsey to answer for what he said in the letter. Thats not actualy wrong. Nightwatch men can defend thier honor.I agree it's a slippery slope but they have a far better claim as to why they did what they did in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Well, the wall is going to come down. This is just a step in that direction. I hope Thorne will be remembered as the Lord Commander who doomed the Seven Kingdoms by letting the Wall fall under his watch. :lol: There was allot of emphasis on Jon's blood spilling across the snow, I think this could indicate the sacrilege the NW have committed by murdering Jon. They have killed their Lord Commander (oathbreakers) and caused the spilling of Stark blood at the heart of the Wall, which was built by a Stark. Perhaps, this will weaken the 'magical barriers' protecting the Wall. It would've been cool if a large crack appeared in the Wall as Jon lay dying, causing Throne and his cronies to realize they had done something stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rise Above Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Whatever happens it will be completely illogical, much like killing Jon Snow. In the books, Jon Snow is about to do something that has nothing to do with protecting the realm from ice wizards and frost zombies. The NIght's Watch actually have a case for deposing a Lord Commander who's about to launch a trivial war involving the Night's Watch (who are sworn not to get involved) to rescue his sister during the most important epoch in the history of the Night's Watch. Killing Jon Snow actually makes sense. In the show, by contrast, the Night's Watch are not upset about Jon Snow using the Night's Watch to launch a personal war during the end of times; they're upset that he brought wildlings south. Wildlings. As if, after the events of Hardhome, the wildlings matter at all anymore, other than as allies in the coming war against ice wizards and their army of frost zombies. It is such terrible writing that I could not stop rolling my eyes during Snow's assassination. "Look," I thought to myself, "a bunch of people making nonsensical decisions in a world government by nonsense." You have a very fragile existence my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spilt Pea Soup Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 So ridiculous. If book and show were switched, you all would be saying "No way Jon Snow would betray his vows!!! Character assassination!!! Waaaaaaaaaahhhhh boooooo hissss"The shows narrative makes more sense, but the plot twist in general is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 So ridiculous. If book and show were switched, you all would be saying "No way Jon Snow would betray his vows!!! Character assassination!!! Waaaaaaaaaahhhhh boooooo hissss"The shows narrative makes more sense, but the plot twist in general is stupid. Assertion without argument. Simply stating "it makes more sense" doesn't tell us anything. How does it make more sense? It seems like utter nonsense to me. If you realized the world as you knew it was about to end - death for every living thing at the hands of a great supernatural enemy - would you murder the only guy who's ever killed that enemy in hand to hand combat? Would you you assassinate the only key to survival because of some wildlings? No, you wouldn't. Neither would I, and neither would any half-assed formulated character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErasmusF Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 dp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErasmusF Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Wildlings will attack the NW. Kill almost everyone but known Jon loyalists. Mel and Davos will take Jon to the Nightfort, where Mel will discover her powers are even stronger. Jon will be resurrected. Sam will pick him up from the Nightfort. They will head down to Molestown where they will go to an inn. At the inn, Jon will order two pieces of dry white toast. Sam will order two whole fried chickens. Dolorous Edd will come out of the back and Sam will declare "We're gettin' the Watch back together." Then they will go to Winterfell and have a nice dinner in the Great Hall. Hobb will come out to serve them stew. They will see Sansa above the salt and ask Ramsay "Hey, how much for your weeemen?" Roose will get all offended and Jon will say "Your daughters? How much for your daughters?" Then they pick up Leathers and Satin working at a Giant ranch outside Karhold. Along the way they run into Old Nan, who whacks their knuckles for cursing, and Clydas, who buys them some time while Melisandre tries to burn them in the crypts below Winterfell for ditching her, they ride down some Boltons in the godwood, and say something to the effect of "it's 300 leagues to Castle Black. We have tired horses and a pack of dried horsemeat. It's dark, an we're wearing all black. Hit it!" Greatest season ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spilt Pea Soup Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Assertion without argument. Simply stating "it makes more sense" doesn't tell us anything. How does it make more sense? It seems like utter nonsense to me. If you realized the world as you knew it was about to end - death for every living thing at the hands of a great supernatural enemy - would you murder the only guy who's ever killed that enemy in hand to hand combat? Would you you assassinate the only key to survival because of some wildlings? No, you wouldn't. Neither would I, and neither would any half-assed formulated character. What doesn't make sense (in book): Jon Snow forsaking his vow to intervene in WF while WW are knocking on the door. What doesn't make sense (in show): That NW hates JS after Hardhome. The second seems to make more sense. I don't think Thorne and the others really think Jon is that vital to the "end of the world". Their living in context, without the benefit of readers advantage, and Jon Snow has put *them* at more risk by inviting wildlings inside. They believe the Wall will hold back the White Walkers, and why not? IT has for thousands of years, right? Most of them haven't seen a white walker, and so it's not that big of a deal. Even if it is a big deal, they see Jon as dispensable, I guess. I don't think either book or show did a good job with this plotline. Oh well. He needs to die to be reborn again, I get it, onward and upward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noneofyourbusiness Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 In the book its a slippery slope. Jon actually doesn't really renounce his vows, he simply wants Ramsey to answer for what he said in the letter. Thats not actualy wrong. Nightwatch men can defend thier honor. And a threat against the lord commander is arguably a threat against the Night's Watch by extension. Also, although no one has made this argument in the books yet, the Night's Watch can't do its duty without support, so practicality will force them to support forces that will support them (like Stannis) against those who will not (like the Boltons). I got the impression that Jon's positive treatment of the wildlings was the main reason for his stabbing in the book as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Sparrow Little Bird Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 And now their watch has ended..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Tormund and Edd will play Marc Anthony and the Wildlings will decimate these "fine noblemen." It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaper oOo Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I hope the wildlings slaughter the remaining nightswatch, minus the few Jon loyalists. Thousands of these wildlings owe their lives to Jon, that has to count for something right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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