ummester Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 What happens to Jon's body could be the most important immediate concern. Remember in season 1, some dead dudes just got up and attacked Mormont? Whichever side they are on, Wildlings, Pro Jon Nights Watch or Anti Jon Nights Watch, caution dictates they should burn his corpse before they battle. The only one that may not want to burn him, ironically, is Mel :D Hey, perhaps they'll burn them both and Mel will kiss Jon's corpse as they both catch fire and Jon will walk out of the fire all singed, with no shampoo model hair left, like a kind of bald Jesus figure that has been BBQd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doremus Coldwater Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Sorry, computer hiccup. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doremus Coldwater Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 In the show it really seems strange because the wildlings were already through and they let them through. Jon did nothing improper on top of that to result in this. And the news from hardhome should have been enough to make anyone rethink their priorities. I was sure the catalyst was going to be some wildlings (Tormund's son?) coming to Jon and wanting to join the Watch, and Jon deciding to allow this. (This happens far earlier in the books, but never got put in the show IIRC.) I could see that pushing Alliser og Olly over the edge. Instead, the murder doesn't really seem to be set off by anything in particular...it just kinda happens, and in a way that really minimizes the shock value. I mean, they spent the entire reason setting up Noddy Chekhov for this, and then they put him last in the queue when his betrayal doesn't really have any practical impact (it's not like Jon was going to survive the first 6 stabbings anyway). Yeah, I know they telegraphed it all to hell, but Olly actuallly going as far as stabbing Jon would still be a surprise for many show viewers - IF they'd put him in the Wich or Bowen Marsh roles. Having him come in at the end when everything was a foregone conclusion just it of any shock value, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doremus Coldwater Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 dp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Bazunor the Twisted Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Whatever happens it will be completely illogical, much like killing Jon Snow. In the books, Jon Snow is about to do something that has nothing to do with protecting the realm from ice wizards and frost zombies. The NIght's Watch actually have a case for deposing a Lord Commander who's about to launch a trivial war involving the Night's Watch (who are sworn not to get involved) to rescue his sister during the most important epoch in the history of the Night's Watch. Killing Jon Snow actually makes sense. In the show, by contrast, the Night's Watch are not upset about Jon Snow using the Night's Watch to launch a personal war during the end of times; they're upset that he brought wildlings south. Wildlings. As if, after the events of Hardhome, the wildlings matter at all anymore, other than as allies in the coming war against ice wizards and their army of frost zombies. It is such terrible writing that I could not stop rolling my eyes during Snow's assassination. "Look," I thought to myself, "a bunch of people making nonsensical decisions in a world government by nonsense."Hahaha.You realize the ones that stabbed him weren't there at Hardhome right? You realize the ones that stabbed him also weren't at the Fist during Jeor's battle against the wights right?The hatred on this forum is hilarious to read. I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edd fetch me the boo box Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 For everyone who is saying the Wildlings will get blamed:There's a cross that says traitor standing over Jon's body. No one took it down before they left. The Wildlings have no reason to call Jon a traitor, as he just finished HELPING THE SHIT out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 For everyone who is saying the Wildlings will get blamed:There's a cross that says traitor standing over Jon's body. No one took it down before they left. The Wildlings have no reason to call Jon a traitor, as he just finished HELPING THE SHIT out of them.How many members of the Night's Watch can read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edd fetch me the boo box Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 How many members of the Night's Watch can read?People see words, they usually ask around at what the words say if they can't read. Natural reaction. Also, dagger wounds. The daggers they used were nice and straight steel, castle forged. Any dagger the Wildlings have would likely be dulled, or inferior quality and would likely leave a nasty jagged cut.Also, motive. None of the Wildlings have a motive to kill Jon. The discontent in the Watch is pretty well known in the show, and they have mutinied just recently.I'm sure Edd is smart enough to figure out what happened. He knows every Wildlings they saved saw what happened at Hardhome, and knows they have a common enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 People see words, they usually ask around at what the words say if they can't read. Natural reaction. Also, dagger wounds. The daggers they used were nice and straight steel, castle forged. Any dagger the Wildlings have would likely be dulled, or inferior quality and would likely leave a nasty jagged cut.Also, motive. None of the Wildlings have a motive to kill Jon. The discontent in the Watch is pretty well known in the show, and they have mutinied just recently.I'm sure Edd is smart enough to figure out what happened. He knows every Wildlings they saved saw what happened at Hardhome, and knows they have a common enemy.I'm sure that the men would be more interested in their dead Lord Commander than a word scribbled on a post. This isn't exactly the brightest bunch. As to the daggers, again, they would be more focused Jon's body than inspect what kind of blade was used. This isn't CSI. The Night's Watch hates the wildlings. They won't be looking for a motive and just assume that the wildlings are savages. They did just murder fifty of their brothers. Most won't need an excuse to find the wildlings to blame. Edd would probably figure it out, but he's not an influential member and his word will carry little weight, especially compared to Thorne's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisHenryTudor Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 They may try and frame someone, likely a Wildling if that's the approach. What about Davos? I mean someone had to see them arguing in the yard. Nobody is left at the wall to defend Davos. You can simply say that Jon refused to accept Davos plea and labeled him a a traitor. That fits perfectly since denying the "king" would essentially be considered treason in Davos/Stannis' eyes. Blame a wildling? Come now they cannot be that stupid. So what, they blame tormund and the remaining 4,999 wait for a trial of 50? Sorry not mocking you, but if that is the route they take, holy hell.....what were they thinking.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Not Appearing Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 They're already proven quite stupid. What is their goal with the Wildlings and how can they accomplish it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 How many members of the Night's Watch can read? How many wildings can write in Westerosy language?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I honestly have no idea what they plan to do with the Wildlings. The 'damage' has already been done, they are at the wrong side of the Wall. What was the point in killing Jon at this point? Are they going to try and get rid of the Wildlings? The only way I can see this happening is with the help of the Northerners. Perhaps, Thorne will get chummy with House Bolton, leading to conflict with the Wildlings which will give them a reason to fight the Boltons with Jon. Maybe Ramsay or/and Roose had a part in Jon's assassination, giving Thorne their permission....? Remember in season 4 when Roose sent Locke after Bran at the Wall, Ramsay acknowledged that Jon was still half Stark so he was also a threat. I doubt they would have been thrilled to find out that he was Lord Commander or that he allowed Wildlings into the North without the Warden of the North's permission. Jon had all but sided with Stannis against the Boltons and this was a threat....they needed to get rid of him. I think there has been some set up for a Jon vs Bolton fight next season- Mel saying she saw Bolton banners on fire (has not happened yet)Jon not wanting to ask for help from Roose because he killed RobbRamsay acknowledging Jon as LCStannis dead (making room for Jon to take on his mission)Davos acknowledging that the Wildlings will fight for Jon (really Stannis, though) because he saved their lives but Jon proclaiming that it is not their fight (it would be their fight if they're hunted down by the Boltons)Jon 'dying' so being free from his vows and the number of people involved in FTW suggests that there is no going back to being LC for Jon. He is done with the NW. I think we will see the NW get help from the Boltons to take out the Wildlings. However, the NW will be falling apart. People will be confused and angry about Jon's murder but unable to prove who did it but many won't be loyal to Thorne. I think Season 6 will end with the Wall coming down and the NW being destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErasmusF Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I honestly have no idea what they plan to do with the Wildlings. The 'damage' has already been done, they are at the wrong side of the Wall. What was the point in killing Jon at this point? Are they going to try and get rid of the Wildlings? The only way I can see this happening is with the help of the Northerners. Perhaps, Thorne will get chummy with House Bolton, leading to conflict with the Wildlings which will give them a reason to fight the Boltons with Jon. Maybe Ramsay or/and Roose had a part in Jon's assassination, giving Thorne their permission....? Remember in season 4 when Roose sent Locke after Bran at the Wall, Ramsay acknowledged that Jon was still half Stark so he was also a threat. I doubt they would have been thrilled to find out that he was Lord Commander or that he allowed Wildlings into the North without the Warden of the North's permission. Jon had all but sided with Stannis against the Boltons and this was a threat....they needed to get rid of him. I think there has been some set up for a Jon vs Bolton fight next season- Mel saying she saw Bolton banners on fire (has not happened yet) Jon not wanting to ask for help from Roose because he killed Robb Ramsay acknowledging Jon as LC Stannis dead (making room for Jon to take on his mission) Davos acknowledging that the Wildlings will fight for Jon (really Stannis, though) because he saved their lives but Jon proclaiming that it is not their fight (it would be their fight if they're hunted down by the Boltons) Jon 'dying' so being free from his vows and the number of people involved in FTW suggests that there is no going back to being LC for Jon. He is done with the NW. I think we will see the NW get help from the Boltons to take out the Wildlings. However, the NW will be falling apart. People will be confused and angry about Jon's murder but unable to prove who did it but many won't be loyal to Thorne. I think Season 6 will end with the Wall coming down and the NW being destroyed. Yeah after watching the show I wondered if the Pink Letter could have been penned by someone at the Wall, provoking him into an attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 You realize the ones that stabbed him weren't there at Hardhome right? You realize the ones that stabbed him also weren't at the Fist during Jeor's battle against the wights right? Weak. Your premise is that the Night's Watch don't believe Jon Snow nor anyone else who has faught WW and Zombies. Well, they believed Mormont when he informed them he was attacked by a zombie at Castle Black. And all those wounded wildlings fleeing the north - those were all self-inflicted wounds to keep up the deception, right? Please. Don't make excuses for crappy writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet199 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Thorne's plan only makes sense if they are planning to murder all the wildlings in their sleep and came for first Jon because they knew he would be against it. However I doubt it will make sense. Show Thorn probably thinks the 50 watch men can take on hundreds of wildlings without any actual plan or smart tactics. I have no doubt that whatever Thorn thinks the watch will all be killed. A big clue to this is that all the sympathetic characters from the watch have left or died (except for Edd but that's just his luck, in the books he will probably live but become a sex slave to a tower full of spearwives). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimbold Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Honestly? I have no idea. There's no way that the Night's Watch can carry out the sistematic destruction of the Wildlings without outside help. Didn't thousands of them get through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Sore Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Wun Wun better go on a rage... I really want Olly to get stepped on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo Kressh Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Thorne's plan only makes sense if they are planning to murder all the wildlings in their sleep and came for first Jon because they knew he would be against it. However I doubt it will make sense. Show Thorn probably thinks the 50 watch men can take on hundreds of wildlings without any actual plan or smart tactics. I have no doubt that whatever Thorn thinks the watch will all be killed. A big clue to this is that all the sympathetic characters from the watch have left or died (except for Edd but that's just his luck, in the books he will probably live but become a sex slave to a tower full of spearwives). Worked for Ramsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisHenryTudor Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Weak. Your premise is that the Night's Watch don't believe Jon Snow nor anyone else who has faught WW and Zombies. Well, they believed Mormont when he informed them he was attacked by a zombie at Castle Black. And all those wounded wildlings fleeing the north - those were all self-inflicted wounds to keep up the deception, right? Please. Don't make excuses for crappy writing. Not that I disagree but Mormont also had more clout and the NW had no reason to distrust or dislike him. So when Mormount says a wight attacked him, his word is gospel. When Jon says we were overrun by WW's etc, well he has proved to be a wildlings sympathizer and untrustworthy. Now I still think it is bad writing, and those at the wall are now that stupid to ignore every report coming in. From Edd, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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