Tempra Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Anyone displaying the NZ flag is generally considered a weirdo. At sporting events, it's generally the black with the silver fern. That way, no-one is going to confuse it with Australia's.What? Is that a new development? I lived in NZ for a year back in 2005 and noticed that the NZ flag (not the silver fern) was flying outside houses all the time with equal or greater frequency than any of the US States (including several southern) that I have lived in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 What? Is that a new development? I lived in NZ for a year back in 2005 and noticed that the NZ flag (not the silver fern) was flying outside houses all the time with equal or greater frequency than any of the US States (including several southern) that I have lived in. Where were you living? The number of times I've seen people with the NZ flag outside houses can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempra Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Where were you living? The number of times I've seen people with the NZ flag outside houses can be counted on the fingers of one hand.Dunedin. I thought they were very common throughout Otago and the southern portion of the South Island. Perhaps NZ pride swelled during the Lions tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex. Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 In the UK, for example, displaying the union flag or the flag of St George is seen by many on the left as being racist and unacceptable. The left are obsessed with symbolism, once they get their way over the confederate flag they'll move on to whatever else they have a bug in their ass over. Give an inch lose a mile. Or maybe people don't display the flag of their own country coz assorted frightbats and seasoned juice warts will call them racists? It's a chicken and egg. Just wanted to jump in quickly and say that this is a load of rubbish entirely devoid of all context. Please stop talking about the UK and using us as an example to make your point when you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerenthaClone Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 It can be a racist symbol or it can used by people remembering the past or a symbol of regional pride. It depends on context. Hey, question for you. Do you know when South Carolina started flying the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia at its Capitol? Bonus points, see if you can properly identify the context rather than just the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Mayby southern states could find some different symbol to use. Yes, if only there was a flag which stood as a symbol to use. One preferably with 50 mini-symbols within the flag, each little symbol - say, a star - representing each of the 50 states. Hmmm, if only we had something like that in this country that states could use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gramsci Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 No that'll be the Nazi swastika that's 100% the same as the Nazi swastika. Meantime Amazon bans the sale of Confederate memorabilia but continues to allow the sale of Soviet AND Nazi stuff.....coz reasons. Proving once and for all that the Confederacy was easily the most evil thing since ever. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/24/amazon-bans-confederate-flags-still-sells-nazi-merchandise/ http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/23/amazon-takes-down-confederate-flag-continues-to-sell-communist-merchandise/ Or maybe it is because more than ten percent of the American population identifies as African American and has a far greater emotional revulsion for the Confederate flag than for the Nazi flag. I agree with Shryke completely in that they are the same message wrapped in different presentations, the only difference is how it is perceived country to country. In any case, one should remember that it was not the swastika flag flying on public property. And that plays a huge part in this entire dialogue. For most the swastika has been relegated to being a historical novelty. The Confederate flag is still very much alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 MC,Hey, question for you. Do you know when South Carolina started flying the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia at its Capitol? Bonus points, see if you can properly identify the context rather than just the time. Actually, it was the Confederate Naval Jack in 1962 the rectangular flag used by the KKK in its rallies. As such I think it is worse than the square flag it was replaced with at the Confederate soldier's monument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 Just wanted to jump in quickly and say that this is a load of rubbish entirely devoid of all context. Please stop talking about the UK and using us as an example to make your point when you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Cheers. Hayyoth's also the guy who got his ass handed to him after making the "Who are you to make Nazi comparisons?" argument at a German. Covering himself in glory internationally to defend the reputation of the flag of a failed slavelords' rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayyoth Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 We're all Dylann Roof......um hold on all white people are Dylann Roof.....no I mean all white southerners are Dylann Roof (phew, thank fuck I'm from Cali).http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/19/only-white-people-can-save-themselves-from-racism-and-white-supremacism/?hpid=z10 Of course, 99 percent of southern whites will never go into a church, sit down with people and then massacre them. But that 99 percent is responsible for the one who does. We white southerners — those of us who left, the others who stayed, and even those millions who have migrated to the Sun Belt — are all Dylann Roof. We are all responsible. We cannot shirk it. We cannot go forward until we fix ourselves. We must organize ourselves, educate ourselves and come together to fight against white supremacy. If we don’t, there will always be another Dylann Roof around the corner. And in the mirror. So let's put that in a different context Of course, 99 percent of Muslims will never go into an army barracks, sit down with people and then massacre them. But that 99 percent is responsible for the one who does. We Muslims — those of us who left, the others who stayed, and even those millions who have migrated to the Sun Belt — are all Nidal Malik Hasan . We are all responsible. We cannot shirk it. We cannot go forward until we fix ourselves. We must organize ourselves, educate ourselves and come together to fight against Islamic supremacy. If we don’t, there will always be another Nidal Malik Hasan around the corner. And in the mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlle. Zabzie Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Thank you for stating that. And just so you all know I really don't care about the Confederate Flag issue at all. Removing/banning/not issuing the flag on government (both on the Federal level and State level) plates and at buildings isn't going to solve anything to do with race relations in the USA. I just don't like the political bandwagoning that is going on right now about this issue. I will also bet that within 2 months we will all be debating the Washington Redskins issue and have the exact same arguments. One can just save their posts now and replace the words "Confederate Flag" with "Washington Redskins" in order to save time. No that'll be the Nazi swastika that's 100% the same as the Nazi swastika. Meantime Amazon bans the sale of Confederate memorabilia but continues to allow the sale of Soviet AND Nazi stuff.....coz reasons. Proving once and for all that the Confederacy was easily the most evil thing since ever. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/24/amazon-bans-confederate-flags-still-sells-nazi-merchandise/ http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/23/amazon-takes-down-confederate-flag-continues-to-sell-communist-merchandise/ It's probably worth regrounding in what speech is protected and what speech is not. The state is free to restrict its own speech however it wishes. What it is not allowed to do in the US is to restrict the ability of persons to speak. To me it is absolutely and perfectly clear that a plate issued by the state and required by the state to be displayed on a motor vehicle as a requirement to operate that vehicle is, at base, state speech. The state, in order to raise money, can properly exercise its discretion to allow vanity plates in order to raise money, but they don't have to allow, for instance, hateful or other messages to be printed on the plate (when I have the time, I will look for a case I seem to remember from California about what vanity plates are allowed to say. The state is clearly allowed to restrict that). On the other hand, the state is not allowed to restrict your ability to fly a confederate flag in front of your house, have a confederate flag bumper sticker, or heck, to burn the confederate flag. The Washington Redskins is a private football club owned by a despicable human being who has run my beloved team into the ground. Sadly, he is allowed to do this because it is a private enterprise. With the NFL now giving up its tax exemption the governmental hook on the name is a trademark hook. I've read those papers and really not sure how it turns out eventually. Amazon is a private business and allowed to sell whatever the heck it wants. It's not a regulated industry, like, e.g., the electric market, so it's really hard for a state to say "yes, you have to carry x,y, or z". The state can regulate whether it sells something illegal, and prevent that, but not force them to sell something so that people can exercise their free speech rights. Is there some hypocrisy in what they have done? Sure. But heck, there's lots of hypocrisy everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayyoth Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Amazon is a private business and allowed to sell whatever the heck it wants. It's not a regulated industry, like, e.g., the electric market, so it's really hard for a state to say "yes, you have to carry x,y, or z". The state can regulate whether it sells something illegal, and prevent that, but not force them to sell something so that people can exercise their free speech rights. Is there some hypocrisy in what they have done? Sure. But heck, there's lots of hypocrisy everywhere.Yeah I realize that Amazon is a private company and I know 1A is a thing and all. I was merely pointing out how incredibly shitty and hypocritical it is for Amazon to ban the sale of toy models of the General Lee while allowing the sale of Nazi swastika i-phone cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 A few comments. Someone asked where do Europeans get their Confederate flag from. Well, until yesterday you could buy them via Amazon Germany for 6 Euro (quite cheap, 90x150 cm) but it seems they are getting removed from sale now. Second, as I said earlier the CF is used by Neo-Nazis here due to obvious reasons (racism + Anti-Americanism which leads me to another question, see below) but to be honest and objective: ironically normal people display that flag in Germany because of their AFFECTION to the US. They see (or saw) it as a symbol for country music, cowboys, old west...you know Saloon style. But as this flag topic really gets media attention here, that attitude for the normal people (read Non-Neo Nazis) mihr change. Now a question: I always considered especially the conservative South as the US heartland of patriotism, certainly more than the "liberal" North-East. I really wonder now...arent those who have so many feelings for the flag or the "confeferate heritage" actually deep down ANTI-Americans, i.e. anti-US? I have problem to compute those things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguien Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Edited. Bah, ne'ermind. It isn't worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Hayyoth's also the guy who got his ass handed to him after making the "Who are you to make Nazi comparisons?" argument at a German. Covering himself in glory internationally to defend the reputation of the flag of a failed slavelords' rebellion. Not just "how do you dare make Nazi comparisons" but "how do you dare comparing uncondintional ancestor worship with Nazism" when... well, my ancestors were Nazis, with no way around it (e.g., we only have such a comprehensive family genealogy because two of my great-grandfathers had to prove they were Aryan... sometimes, the realisations when thinking about my relatives are chilling) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 We're all Dylann Roof......um hold on all white people are Dylann Roof.....no I mean all white southerners are Dylann Roof (phew, thank fuck I'm from Cali). http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/19/only-white-people-can-save-themselves-from-racism-and-white-supremacism/?hpid=z10So let's put that in a different context Well, that exactly what the call by Islamophobes for Muslims to "distance themselves from terrorism" looks like. Welcome to the hell you created :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 TgftV,I and other Southerners have spoken out against branding all Muslims with the taint of the actions of a few radicals... are we responsible for Dylan Roof too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 TgftV,I and other Southerners have spoken out against branding all Muslims with the taint of the actions of a few radicals... are we responsible for Dylan Roof too?Scott, I think you didnt recognize the sarcasm ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Now a question: I always considered especially the conservative South as the US heartland of patriotism, certainly more than the "liberal" North-East. I really wonder now...arent those who have so many feelings for the flag or the "confeferate heritage" actually deep down ANTI-Americans, i.e. anti-US? I have problem to compute those things... No, because the actual associations of the flag now are not about rebellion, they are about racism and the Lost Cause. ie - The flag has changed into nostalgia for the old days when blacks knew their place and when the South was (supposedly) better. And also as a symbol of how the damn federal government stomped all over them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 TgftV,I and other Southerners have spoken out against branding all Muslims with the taint of the actions of a few radicals... are we responsible for Dylan Roof too? I'm pointing out the hypocrisy. If you spoke out against that practice, as I'm sure you did, you're not the target of my post ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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