(Spoilers)True Detective Season 2: gold teeth optional

[Fez]

So,.... can anybody explain to me what the hell is going on ?

 

At this point, the conspiracy is so vague and so vast, its not worth really trying to figure out the details. But it all boils down to:

 

Some rich guys trying to get richer by fleecing the federal government during the construction of a highspeed rail-line. They got involved in the rail line by buying up all the land the line will go through at dirt cheap prices after spreading toxic waste to make it unusable to the farmers that are there. Because it would be kind of obvious that something was up if the same group of people owned all the land the line is going through, the rich guys are using about a million different shell corporations to hide how involved they are. For some reason, the rich guys are making all the business deals involved in this at sex parties that are hosted by the Vinci Mayor's son and VV's rogue guy. The Mayor's son is using his father's connections to get the girls for these parties. Caspere was involved in these deals at the sex parties and was also secretly recording the other rich guys for blackmail purposes.

 

I suspect that the head rich guy saw Caspere doing the recording and hired/ordered the Vinci PD Lt. to kill him and recover the hard drive.

 

I also suspect that VV's rogue guy killed the infamous Stan.

 

Its likely that the guy running for state AG after sweeping the original investigation under the rug is working with the rich guys and we just haven't seen it yet.

 

 

What I'm not sure of is: 1) whether there is anything occult going on as well (the eye burnings for the dead guys), 2) who the dead girl from the cabin is or who killed her, 3) if the blue diamonds have a larger role than just showing how corrupt the Vinci PD is, 4) whether the Vinci Mayor is actively involved in the current conspiracy or its just his son using his connections, 5) what the missing girl's involvement with all this is.

[RumHam]

1) whether there is anything occult going on as well (the eye burnings for the dead guys

 

There was a line an episode or two ago, when Velcoro was beating up Rick Springfield. He asked about the Mayor's first wife being committed and the Dr. said “certain traditions of the Chessani patriarchs she had a difficult time with. They are, you might say, a highly inventive family.” I'm not sure what that was referring too, but it could be something occult.

[Ixodes]

This season has been a bit of a mess.  It still compels me but not like the first season.  The writing is too erratic and I'll echo that there are so many hanging plot lines I have trouble placing characters.  It's better than most shows I am watching but doesn't knock my socks off.  I'm still excited to see the end.

 

I think Vince Vaughn is doing very well and I like his character.  I think the main flaw is erratic writing and dialog, not poor acting. 

 

Farrell is doing great and I really liked the meltdown/suicide note segment last night.  I also liked the sit down with Vaughn.  His character is ready to go out and giving him a glorious blazing exit would be great.  I only hope that the writers don't give him a save or sudden redemption.  That would be too cliche.

 

McAdams is off and on.  She should be the most compelling character but for some reason it just doesn't click with me.  Maybe it's just they don't give her enough screen time to develop the character.  I did like the party and rescue last night. 

 

Kitsch's character is a lost opportunity.  The character really could be great.  A patrolman unexpectedly jumped to detective in a politically charged case, this role is ripe for some great drama.  I think the writers are too ham-handed with the gay repression.  To me, his character is about as compelling as an after school special.  Maybe having him further along in accepting his sexuality would have been better.  With the complexity of the case, it's just too much to put in the actor.

 

I'm interested to see how it ends.  If they have a third season, I'll watch but I won't be as excited. 

[Prince of the North]

Overall, I'm starting to like the show a bit more.  it's not the first season but, then again, few shows are.  It's kind of interesting to me how people either loved or hated the sex party music.  I hated it.  Whenever something like that makes me wonder about it during the scene (i.e. it takes me out of the scene) then I don't think it's a good thing :dunno:

 

I agree with everyone saying they'll never close this case through the "proper" channels.  That's why I think all hell will probably break loose before the end.  I mean, c'mon, think about the potential pissed off group of people these rich guys are creating?  People who may not feel they have anything left to lose.  We know Velcoro is a murderous thug (I wonder what actually happened to Dr. Springfield?) who probably doesn't particularly want to live, Woodrough is a fucking "god-warrior", and Ani will.cut.you!  And then there's Frank and his crew.  The Mexicans feel like quite the wildcard, though.    

[The Unborn]

Anyone thinking the Lieutenant is the killer is not paying attention, even though with this season I guess anything is possible.

I am mostly thinking about the scene after Velcoro got shot. The killer took all the evidence, and the Lieutenant was frantically looking for something in that house without even gloves on. He is in on the whole thing, but he is not the killer. The killer is a wildcard. He took off with evidence and the bad guys want to retrieve this evidence...

[Fez]

 

There was a line an episode or two ago, when Velcoro was beating up Rick Springfield. He asked about the Mayor's first wife being committed and the Dr. said “certain traditions of the Chessani patriarchs she had a difficult time with. They are, you might say, a highly inventive family.” I'm not sure what that was referring too, but it could be something occult.

 

Good call, that certainly has the potential to be occult. And the family is certainly one of the weirder elements in all this. Although if they are being occult, that mean the son is more involved than just being the pimp providing girls for the sex party and that the mayor is involved at all, which I'm not sure about (if he was, I think VV would be gone by now, because it seems pretty obvious that VV's rogue guy wants to take over his position).

 

 

Anyone thinking the Lieutenant is the killer is not paying attention, even though with this season I guess anything is possible.

I am mostly thinking about the scene after Velcoro got shot. The killer took all the evidence, and the Lieutenant was frantically looking for something in that house without even gloves on. He is in on the whole thing, but he is not the killer. The killer is a wildcard. He took off with evidence and the bad guys want to retrieve this evidence...

 

The Lt. was looking for the hard drive at the crime scene. If he's the killer, it could be that he was looking for it when he shot Velcoro, couldn't find it, needed to leave, and came back to keep looking after the body was found.

 

It could be that the killer is someone else, killing Caspere for another unknown reason and has the hard drive. But it seems late in the game to introduce yet another element at this point. I think its more likely that Caspere hid the hard drive as an insurance policy and its just that no one has found where it is yet.

[Veltigar]

So yeah, some initial thoughts:

 

_ Those Mexicans are stupid idiots. I get killing the woman for talking to the cops, but why would you do that BEFORE wrangling all the information she can possibly give you out of her... How stupid is that.

 

_ Ani's sister is dead meat. That development was obvious for a while now, but I think it's pretty clear now. I think she'll wind up on some beach somewhere, drowned, just like that painting she gave to Ani

 

_ Ani was raped by Jezus. Pretty hamfisted development for this show.

 

_What self-respecting criminal tycoon keeps all his precious documents in a desk drawer. I swear, this is the equivalent to the green paint thing of last year. Pizzolato sucks at wrapping his mysteries up.

 

_ So the asian guy at the party was the one who ordered the investigation into Vinci PD earlier and who is know running for governor. He seems to have gone through an awful lot of trouble to gain access to these sex parties. He must be pretty desperate :p

 

_ I'm surprised that no more attention is being paid to the brother and sister going into the system after the brutal murder of both their parents. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the ones who went after Caspere and the criminal conspiracy. A crackpot was that they were adopted by the mayor or something like that, but I think we'll see more of them. The girl could be the waitress with the carved up face, the boy I'm not really sure about. Someone we haven't seen yet possibly.

 

Now who was Stan?

 

This guy ;)

 

 

Am I the only one who is not exactly sure what's going on? ... I normally pride myself on paying attention to detail... occasionally I find myself curious about this or that.... but this season I am completely lost

No, this season is an utter mess. I was on the fence until now, but it's just no very well thought-out.

 

And why didn't Frank tell the Mexican criminals to go screw themselves when he realized they'd killed the girl? What's his reason for going along with them?

:idea: Once you go Mexican, you never go baxican? :dunno:

 

 

I did like Ray throwing on his headlights as he hit the main road to make their getaway. Thought it was kinda cool.

 

:agree:

 

Glad Ani saved herself too. I was expecting Paul to come in guns blazing when the guy had her by the throat.

Any man who laid a hand on her would bleed out in under a minute. I think she sad that a couple of episodes ago, still impressive since that I think she used a butter knife. 

 

I'm sad Paul didn't come in to save the day. I mean, if they really wanted to solve the case they should have just busted in and shot a couple of guys. Dead prostitutes and henchmen can be buried in the woods, but shoot a couple of those rich dudes and the criminals are fucked. That's why I was really annoyed when Rachel McAdams only killed a lowly henchman, if she had stabbed that oil tycoon this show would have ended there.

 

omgg the scene with Vince Vaughn and the kid was so awful I'm dying
Edit: First 30 minutes were pretty bad. I thought it was much better from Velcoros coke binge on. Rachel Mcadams was great at the end.

I liked it up until, the whole you are pure gold. I mean... what the hell was that?

 

 

So, the case is pretty much wrapped up now right? Velecro's partner was the killer and he was working for the mayor to cover for the elite at these sex parties right? He was obviously the guy that paid Amarillo's girl to pawn Caspere's stuff.

You mean Thomas Cromwell right?

 

It's a pity Nic Pizzolatto didn't plagiarize for this season

:bowdown: Zing ;)

 

 

Overall, I'm starting to like the show a bit more.  it's not the first season but, then again, few shows are.  It's kind of interesting to me how people either loved or hated the sex party music.  I hated it.  Whenever something like that makes me wonder about it during the scene (i.e. it takes me out of the scene) then I don't think it's a good thing :dunno:

  

I watched the episode like five minutes ago and I have no recollection of the music either way. Didn't hate it, didn't love it. I just didn't register it :P

[Igziabeher]

Didn't the guy who robbed the jewelry store in '92 have a mask? Could be the same guy that shot Velcoro and took the hd. Those kids have to be in their late 20s now, probably question them next week. They got the evidence to take down the sex party conspiracies, but still a little short on the killer.

[Cas Stark]

Why are people theorizing an occult link?  There is nothing in the show that even suggests that.  There is no way they're going to totally change tone and have some kind of occult angle here, even though they have everything else but the kitchen sink now thrown into the plot.

I was hoping they weren't going to have Ani as an abuse victim, because, one more cliche thrown in there for good measure.  Sexually dysfunctional rage filled woman...all because of childhood abuse, right out of tropes 101.  

 

I also had thought those two children were going to turn out to be the mayor's kids.  How else to get them involved in the plot w/only 2 episodes left?

[Fez]

Why are people theorizing an occult link?  There is nothing in the show that even suggests that.  There is no way they're going to totally change tone and have some kind of occult angle here, even though they have everything else but the kitchen sink now thrown into the plot.

I was hoping they weren't going to have Ani as an abuse victim, because, one more cliche thrown in there for good measure.  Sexually dysfunctional rage filled woman...all because of childhood abuse, right out of tropes 101.  

 

I also had thought those two children were going to turn out to be the mayor's kids.  How else to get them involved in the plot w/only 2 episodes left?

 

Caspere's eyes being burned out with acid after he was dead certainly seems like something that could be occult. Stan's eyes were also burned out with acid, likely after he died as well, but I don't think that was explicitly said.

 

Its not necessarily occult, but its certainly a peculiar MO.

[Prince of the North]

I watched the episode like five minutes ago and I have no recollection of the music either way. Didn't hate it, didn't love it. I just didn't register it :P

Heh, earlier in the thread a few people said they didn't like that music then a couple people said they thought it was great.  You had no reaction to it.  It's all over the place! :P

 

Like I said, I didn't like it.  It didn't "fit" for me.  It's not a complete deal breaker or anything.  I just thought they could have done a bit better there :dunno:

 

Why are people theorizing an occult link?  There is nothing in the show that even suggests that.  There is no way they're going to totally change tone and have some kind of occult angle here, even though they have everything else but the kitchen sink now thrown into the plot.

I was hoping they weren't going to have Ani as an abuse victim, because, one more cliche thrown in there for good measure.  Sexually dysfunctional rage filled woman...all because of childhood abuse, right out of tropes 101.  

 

I also had thought those two children were going to turn out to be the mayor's kids.  How else to get them involved in the plot w/only 2 episodes left?

Well, I think Ani's background with her Dad's commune/spiritual movement, etc. and the mention of the mayor's family's "inventiveness" could point to some sort of occult tie-in but it does seem kind of thin :dunno:

 

ETA: Also, as Fez mentioned, the manner of Caspere's and Stan's deaths, etc. could be "occult".

[Cas Stark]

 

Caspere's eyes being burned out with acid after he was dead certainly seems like something that could be occult. Stan's eyes were also burned out with acid, likely after he died as well, but I don't think that was explicitly said.

 

Its not necessarily occult, but its certainly a peculiar MO.

 

Lotta peculiar stuff in the show, LOL.  Probably your standard criminal sending a message.  Maybe it will end up being the Russians.  Or a rogue Cromwell.  But I can't see throwing in an entirely new element like that, especially since this season doesn't have that same eerie feel.  It's straight up cop noir...the problem is, Pizziola has thrown in literally almost every cop noir storyline all in one season.

[RumHam]

Also one of the first things the guy said about season two was:

 

“This is really early, but I’ll tell you (it’s about) hard women, bad men and the secret occult history of the United States transportation system.”

 

[Igziabeher]

There's vague allusions to occult, like the bird mask, Caspere's skeleton statue, the shrine in the house Frank is looking for Irina in, but nothing over the too like season 1.

[Cas Stark]

It's too late for that.  

 

if they tie up this season with some kind of occult conspiracy on top of everything else, TD reputation may never recover.

[Ixodes]

So yeah, some initial thoughts:

 

_ Those Mexicans are stupid idiots. I get killing the woman for talking to the cops, but why would you do that BEFORE wrangling all the information she can possibly give you out of her... How stupid is that.

 

I think the Mexicans did get something.

 

She probably never had the hard drive, right?  Someone gave her the other stuff to throw the investigation off his trail.  The Mexicans knew she had information, information really valuable to Vaughn.  They listened to her conversation with Vaughn and they knew what kind of questions to ask.  I think they tortured the information out of her.  Then they killed her so the only way Vaughn can get his hands on the hard drive is through them.  They have a tremendous amount of leverage and I think we'll see that next episode.

Or I could be wrong and they killed her for no good reason.  Kinda funny, with this season's erratic writing I wouldn't be surprised either way. 

[Cas Stark]

 

I think the Mexicans did get something.

 

She probably never had the hard drive, right?  Someone gave her the other stuff to throw the investigation off his trail.  The Mexicans knew she had information, information really valuable to Vaughn.  They listened to her conversation with Vaughn and they knew what kind of questions to ask.  I think they tortured the information out of her.  Then they killed her so the only way Vaughn can get his hands on the hard drive is through them.  They have a tremendous amount of leverage and I think we'll see that next episode.

Or I could be wrong and they killed her for no good reason.  Kinda funny, with this season's erratic writing I wouldn't be surprised either way. 

 

i didn't get the impression she knew anything about the hard drive, she was just a cog in the wheel of framing the other mexicans.  also why do these mexicans want to screw over VV?  if they were going to screw him over they could have just had her refuse a meeting or not find her.

 

it would be really stupid if they killed her before they got the full info on the cop and his description, etc. but then, fair amount of holes in this season's story

[Fez]

Or I could be wrong and they killed her for no good reason.  Kinda funny, with this season's erratic writing I wouldn't be surprised either way. 

 

It could be that the Mexicans just don't care. They don't know about all the money wrapped up in the rail-line, they're just trying to push their drugs. She was a loose end, one with connections to the police, and they had no use for her. Killing her like that also sends a message to VV that they are willing to do whatever they want and will only honor the absolute loosest understanding of the letter of their agreement with him.

[Ixodes]

When Vaughn took over the club, he pushed the Mexicans out.  They came in to re-establish their deal and were told to piss off.  Vaughn isn't their favorite person right now.  Their ultimate goal is to get their business back.  Once they knew this girl had valuable information, this gave them the way to not only get the business back but to screw over Vaughn in the process.  They'll get as much out of him as they can. 

 

Or at least that's how I see it.  Who knows what next week will bring.

[Cas Stark]

It's a miracle that nobody has killed VV yet, since he has been screwed over by everyone at every turn.  The Mexicans then might as well have killed him right there and taken over the club themselves, because who cares?  What's VV going to do to them?