Mithras Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 She would have strangled Jon when he was a toddler. No kid, no problem. ;) Yeah, that is something that vile bitch could have done. Totally aligned with her characterization. Why should she risk her own children's lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diregirl Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 No, she wouldn't have hated him then. I think what she couldn't take was that Ned had supposedly betrayed her, esp. with some "base-born wench". This went against the grain of what the Tully clan believed in - family, honor, duty. She couldn't warm to Jon after that, and who would be able to if their husband brought home his son from an illicit affair and told the wife they'd raise him with their own kids. I knew I would have gone bonkers and I'm sure Cat had a few screaming fits of her own (and lacked any power to do anything about it except have a screaming fit).So if she'd known Ned hadn't betrayed her and knowing how much he loved L., she would have been able to accept Jon into the family. She might still have been uneasy that he'd be a threat to her family if discovered, but by then lots of time had passed and the risk of discovery would not have seemed that large. She'd have tried to raise him as a Stark and emphasize this line of ancestry over the Targ line of ancestry because it would have seemed more sensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Yeah, that is something that vile bitch could have done. Totally aligned with her characterization. Why should she risk her own children's lives?:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Yeah, that is something that vile bitch could have done. Totally aligned with her characterization. Why should she risk her own children's lives? So why didn't she murder the snowflake in the actual books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisHenryTudor Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 So why didn't she murder the snowflake in the actual books? She may have (doubt it) if she found out that Jon was/is a hidden Targ. His existence threatened her children. But I think she would have sent him away instead of killed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 LOL it's so easy to bet such things when noone will ever ask you to pay... If something is so obvious I don't think that I would had lost the bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceFire125 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Yeah, that is something that vile bitch could have done. Totally aligned with her characterization. Why should she risk her own children's lives? Yup, Ned seem to go along with this doubt as well, when he was talking to Cersei. Thus after all those years, he still would not risk it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbent_Unbroken Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 She probably would have been even more insistent that Jon go to the Wall. She may have treated him better in private, but if Jon's not at the Wall by the time the WoT5K breaks out, may the Old Gods and the Seven protect him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 She probably would've gone, "Oh." and kept the secret and likely been more tolerable towards Jon. I never understood why Ned wouldn't entrust her with this secret. Especially after she started taking his supposed sin out on the innocent boy. It would've made everyone's lives easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Golden Wolf Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Why does everyone just assume Robert would go to war with Ned over Jon? Especially as it was Ned who put him on that damnable throne? Who would even back him up in a war against the North? the Riverlands would stay out of it because Cat is married to Ned and the Vale has no reason to invade the north either.The Westerlands could try but they are ill equipped for a war with the North and would have the Iron Born to worry about because attacking Ned would be the perfect opening Balon would be looking for. Let alone the fact that no one can prove whether Jon is a legitimate son of Rhaegar so why even bother with it. Ned and Robert almost ended their friendship over the death of Elia and her children, telling Ned to hand over his own flesh and blood......the North will start preparing for an invasion immediately. All he would do is ensure that the North will secede from the 7 Kingdoms and not help them when Balon declares himself king and starts murpillaping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia H. Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Why does everyone just assume Robert would go to war with Ned over Jon? Especially as it was Ned who put him on that damnable throne? Who would even back him up in a war against the North? the Riverlands would stay out of it because Cat is married to Ned and the Vale has no reason to invade the north either.The Westerlands could try but they are ill equipped for a war with the North and would have the Iron Born to worry about because attacking Ned would be the perfect opening Balon would be looking for. Let alone the fact that no one can prove whether Jon is a legitimate son of Rhaegar so why even bother with it. Ned and Robert almost ended their friendship over the death of Elia and her children, telling Ned to hand over his own flesh and blood......the North will start preparing for an invasion immediately. All he would do is ensure that the North will secede from the 7 Kingdoms and not help them when Balon declares himself king and starts murpillaping. Robert has an irrational hatred of everything Targaryen, and especially of the long dead Rhaegar. He even says that he would like to kill him a thousand times. A son of Lyanna with Rhaegar... who knows what his reaction would be? And it is not only Robert. Even if Robert came to his senses soon enough after the first tantrum, anyone who has heard the king wanting the boy dead might try to do him this little favour to please him. There are also the Lannisters. Would Tywin risk having even an ever so illegitimate Targaryen boy in the realm when having him killed would be so easy? It would not be necessary to go to war, an accident could always be arranged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Golden Wolf Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Robert has an irrational hatred of everything Targaryen, and especially of the long dead Rhaegar. He even says that he would like to kill him a thousand times. A son of Lyanna with Rhaegar... who knows what his reaction would be? And it is not only Robert. Even if Robert came to his senses soon enough after the first tantrum, anyone who has heard the king wanting the boy dead might try to do him this little favour to please him. There are also the Lannisters. Would Tywin risk having even an ever so illegitimate Targaryen boy in the realm when having him killed would be so easy? It would not be necessary to go to war, an accident could always be arranged. An accident in the heart of the North where everyone has an almost fanatical devotion to the Starks? hell the only reason anyone is even able to get close to Bran is because they came North with Robert's massive court. Tywin would be very hard pressed to find someone to get all the way to Winterfell and kill Jon with no guarantee that they would be able to ever profit from the murder. maybe Roose Bolton could be persuaded to try but he would risk the ire of the entire North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia H. Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 An "accident" is not like sending an assassin with a dagger to Winterfell. It is something that looks like an accident or a sudden illness - like Jon Arryn's case. It is one of those dangers that could not be ruled out. Why would Ned risk any of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I don't think this would have changed anything or made their lives suddenly worthwhile. And then she becomes LSH and it matters even less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 As others have stated above, I don't see it improving anything and likely would make it worse. Cat cares about her kids at the expense of everything else more or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Saga Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 She would probably spoil to Lisa.Then Littlefinger and Varys could use the information for their own ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 She still would have hated Jon, just for a different reason. He doesn't pose a threat to her children's inheritance anymore, but he presents a threat to their lives and safety. If Robert found out the truth, he very likely would have commanded Ned to give Jon up to him, which he presumably would not do because of his promise to Lyanna. This could have resulted in an assault on Winterfell, or perhaps another war. Either way, Cat would see Jon as a threat to her children, and she'd do anything to be rid of him. And, in this case, it's likely she would have seen to his disposal in some other manner than having him sent to the Wall, a more permanent disposal. 1000% this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfgangII Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 She still would have hated Jon, just for a different reason. He doesn't pose a threat to her children's inheritance anymore, but he presents a threat to their lives and safety. If Robert found out the truth, he very likely would have commanded Ned to give Jon up to him, which he presumably would not do because of his promise to Lyanna. This could have resulted in an assault on Winterfell, or perhaps another war. Either way, Cat would see Jon as a threat to her children, and she'd do anything to be rid of him. And, in this case, it's likely she would have seen to his disposal in some other manner than having him sent to the Wall, a more permanent disposal. Interesting, let's think about that escenario. Robert I would want to assault Winterfell, but first he had to pass through the Riverlands (Catelyn's homeland) and Moat Cailin (the North's southernmost stronghold). Could the Crown (counting Stormlands, Westerlands, Reach, Iron Islands and Crowlands) succesfully attack the North (with possible help of the Riverlands and the Vale, where Catelyn's sister and even maybe Ned's stepfather, Jon Arryn, lives)? I think that if Jon Arryn lived, he would talk some senses in Robert. If not, the Stag King would have to face a devastating humilliation on Moat Cailin. He could send the Ironborn to rave the Northern shore, spreading their forces. It's possible that Hoster Tully would not risk to face the Crown, if the North doesn't bring any protection south of the Neck. I imagine that Lysa would hold the Vale's forces and stay away of the conflict. Stannis would attack White Harbor with the Royal Fleet and Robert would hire sellsword from Essos to land on the North, but still the North is to vast to submit. Moat Cailin will hold, the cranong men will weak the king's forces. The only possibility of Robert's success will be that Tywiin arrange the same plot and use the Boltons to overthrow the Starks, but it will a lot more difficult, given that all the rest of the Northern houses really love the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selena Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Why does everyone just assume Robert would go to war with Ned over Jon? Especially as it was Ned who put him on that damnable throne? Who would even back him up in a war against the North? the Riverlands would stay out of it because Cat is married to Ned and the Vale has no reason to invade the north either.The Westerlands could try but they are ill equipped for a war with the North and would have the Iron Born to worry about because attacking Ned would be the perfect opening Balon would be looking for. Let alone the fact that no one can prove whether Jon is a legitimate son of Rhaegar so why even bother with it. Ned and Robert almost ended their friendship over the death of Elia and her children, telling Ned to hand over his own flesh and blood......the North will start preparing for an invasion immediately. All he would do is ensure that the North will secede from the 7 Kingdoms and not help them when Balon declares himself king and starts murpillaping. You are a king who some people still see as an "unsurper". You find out that the man who is supposed to be your best friend. who helped put you on the throne, is secretly raising the son of the woman that should have been yours and the man she chose over you***(who just happened to be the crown prince of the family you disposed) . So now you have betrayal AND a focal point for a Targ rebellion.... oh yes..there would be war..and the walls of Winterfell are not high enough to protect you OR your damn dragonspawn *****I believe that deep down..Robert knows Lyanna went willingly with Rheagar and that is why he is such a mess when we start the story in AGoT*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 She would not have resented Jon or felt threatened by his mother in such a case. And there is good a chance she would look on him as a poor orphan who needed love and protection, since he didn't have either of his parents. She would however have been concerned about the danger of having him there. But then she'd be more likely to blame Ned in that situation. And she still wouldn't like having people think that Ned had cheated on her, but she would at least have the comfort of knowing that it wasn't true. Of course Robert's visit to Winterfell would have her pulling her hair out, figuratively of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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