UK Politics - a new thread for the new board

[The Marquis de Leech]

1 hour ago, mormont said:

By now, a competent opposition should be twenty points ahead in the polls and kicking this government around for fun. Instead, Labour are, er, just about level, maybe a bit behind. It's a tragic state of affairs.

Problem is, the 2015 analysis of the election shows that voters still blamed Labour for the Financial Crisis - and Labour under Milliband did nothing to combat the idea of expansionary austerity in public discourse. Labour under Corbyn is starting well behind in trying to reshape the economic debate. This is before factoring in the unique factors in Scotland - which can hardly be blamed on Corbyn.

In other words, it is easy to see why the Opposition isn't twenty points in front.

 

[mormont]

51 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

Problem is, the 2015 analysis of the election shows that voters still blamed Labour for the Financial Crisis - and Labour under Milliband did nothing to combat the idea of expansionary austerity in public discourse. Labour under Corbyn is starting well behind in trying to reshape the economic debate. This is before factoring in the unique factors in Scotland - which can hardly be blamed on Corbyn.

In other words, it is easy to see why the Opposition isn't twenty points in front.

Yes, it is: it's because Jeremy Corbyn isn't doing a very good job. Neither are most of his shadow cabinet. And of course, because half the parliamentary Labour party spends all its effort plotting internal power games.

Collectively, the shadow cabinet are low-energy, low-profile and slow to react to or harness the news agenda. Labour under Corbyn have been spectacularly unsuccessful in trying to reshape the economic debate: nobody is listening to them on that, or anything else. Ian Duncan Smith did more damage to the Tories' economic policies in one resignation letter than the entire Labour party has managed since Corbyn's election.

As for the unique situation in Scotland, which I actually don't have a problem with, no, it's not Corbyn's fault - but it's certainly partially Labour's fault, and Corbyn has shown little interest and no activity in doing anything to fix it.

You can't look at a party that's behind in the polls despite disarray in the government and just say 'hey, this is all the fault of the last leader and some ineffable stuff that the current leader can't do anything about'. The Labour party are a shambles right now, and we are entitled to expect better from their leader personally and from them collectively.

[williamjm]

11 hours ago, mormont said:

Ludicrously, even after what, four days? of hedging and humming and hawing, he's still at it. Now he's claiming that this offshore trust was 'not set up to avoid taxes'. Perish the thought. Why would anyone think an offshore trust based in the Bahamas and offering investors privacy was set up to avoid taxes?

It does seem yet another bit of very specific phrasing, since it leaves open the question of whether the offshore trust was used to avoid taxes at some point after it was set up.

If I may digress into a mini-rant: here we have a government whose leader everyone knows is on the way out, that's imposing hugely unpopular cuts, who are publicly fighting among themselves over Europe to an unprecedented degree (we actually had serving ministers yesterday describing an official government leaflet as 'propaganda' and its release as unfair), we've had a high-profile resignation and severe criticism of the Chancellor, and now we have the PM fudging prevaricating over offshore trusts that he personally benefited from

There's also the small matter of being at war with one of the largest groups of NHS workers in a dispute that shows no sign of ending.

I wonder if David Cameron sometimes wishes that he hadn't actually won the last election? I can't imagine he's enjoying himself at the moment.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Pfft, it's only 30 grand.  He probably thought it had fallen down the back of the sofa.  He must be yearning for the good old days when people just wanted to know if he had stuck his cock in a dead pig's mouth.

 

in other news, a former ukip candidate has apparently been 'blacking up'. http://www.scotsman.com/news/ukip-activist-claims-blacked-up-photos-were-a-joke-1-4094782

[A wilding]

51 minutes ago, williamjm said:

It does seem yet another bit of very specific phrasing, since it leaves open the question of whether the offshore trust was used to avoid taxes at some point after it was set up.

That's the thing about all this.

We have all always known that Cameron's Eton education and start in life was paid for by his father's offshore wealth kept beyond reach of the taxman. The Panama leaks have simply provided some information on exactly where it was.

Yet the leaks have suddenly made something we knew all along into headline news that has gravely weakened Cameron.

I suppose it just confirms my cynicism about how dysfunctional our current media led democracy is.

 

[The Marquis de Leech]

9 hours ago, mormont said:

Ian Duncan Smith did more damage to the Tories' economic policies in one resignation letter than the entire Labour party has managed since Corbyn's election.

Which is simply a case of that time-honoured rule that Oppositions don't win elections, Governments lose them (or in this case, the Government damages itself more effectively than the Opposition).

As for Corbyn, I'd also point to further factors beyond his control - the unanimous media hatred of him, and the vocal reluctance of Labour MPs to actually respect the will of their own party.  

[mormont]

4 hours ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

Which is simply a case of that time-honoured rule that Oppositions don't win elections, Governments lose them (or in this case, the Government damages itself more effectively than the Opposition).

Except that there's no sign that this rule applies at present, and that's my point. The Tories are doing their very best to lose the next election right now, and yet still, the Opposition isn't making any ground.

4 hours ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

As for Corbyn, I'd also point to further factors beyond his control - the unanimous media hatred of him, and the vocal reluctance of Labour MPs to actually respect the will of their own party.  

Point away, but first of all, he's shown no interest in addressing the media problem either, which makes it partly his responsibility. Second, the conflict in the party is not one-sided, and I'm happy to blame both sides equally for the shambles: the end result is still an ineffectual opposition. I'm not willing to excuse either side, though: particularly not the guy who volunteered for the job of leader, part of which is finding ways to lead people who don't necessarily want to be led. And finally, these things don't actually refute any of the points I made above about the stuff that is under Corbyn's control, at which he's been poor.

You can list off excuses for the fact that Labour are failing at what should be an easy task, but the fact is, they are still failing.

[The Killer Snark]

I think that Cameron and Corbyn should both get shipped to the nearest deserted island, so this unjustly overprivileged pair of totalitarian state-corporatists can murder one another, over each others' inabilities to even start a fire.

[SeanF]

A big problem for Labour is that UKIP absorbs quite a lot of the anti-government, mid-term protest vote.

[mormont]

3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

A big problem for Labour is that UKIP absorbs quite a lot of the anti-government, mid-term protest vote.

Again, this is not something that excuses the Labour party. It's a symptom of their failure.

Anyway, and news with a UKIP connection, it seems that declaring your tax returns has become very fashionable for party leaders and those with aspirations, but not if you're Nigel Farage. He's clearly worried there might be something nasty in there taking a principled stand for privacy.

Notably, Cameron's tax return information is a summary, not the full information. He just does not learn.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36010902

[SeanF]

1 minute ago, mormont said:

Again, this is not something that excuses the Labour party. It's a symptom of their failure.

Anyway, and news with a UKIP connection, it seems that declaring your tax returns has become very fashionable for party leaders and those with aspirations, but not if you're Nigel Farage. He's clearly worried there might be something nasty in there taking a principled stand for privacy.

Notably, Cameron's tax return information is a summary, not the full information. He just does not learn.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36010902

In fairness to Cameron, he does seem to have paid what was due.  Over the past 6 years, he's paid 37% of his income in income tax.

[The Killer Snark]

The remaining 63 percent, no doubt, is going towards his private farm about the size of a small country in which he's breeding especially submissive pigs.

[Maltaran]

I see Dennis Skinner got himself thrown out of the Commons again during Cameron's statement about his tax returns.

[The Killer Snark]

He certainly did. He either called him Dodgy Davey, or refused to retract having previously publicly named him so. The rest of us just call him Dishface. It's entirely catchier.

[mormont]

7 hours ago, SeanF said:

In fairness to Cameron, he does seem to have paid what was due.

And if he hadn't, that would be not just an instant resignation matter but actually breaking the law. Not doing anything illegal is a good bit short of the standard where I'd be saying 'in fairness'.

[Werthead]

Excellent piece of polling by Fullers. Interesting result, actually.

[Maltaran]

2 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Excellent piece of polling by Fullers. Interesting result, actually.

I understand London is more pro-EU than the country as a whole, despite Boris.

[williamjm]

I wonder if Vote Leave are regretting not buying up the obvious domain name of www.voteleave.co.uk since the sentiments expressed on there seem more inclined towards togetherness?

[Slick Mongoose]

I feel a sudden urge to vote leave.....

[Sophelia]

22 hours ago, williamjm said:

I wonder if Vote Leave are regretting not buying up the obvious domain name of www.voteleave.co.uk since the sentiments expressed on there seem more inclined towards togetherness?

Goodness, I'd forgetten that used to happen on here all the time. Nicely done...